Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[impaaaaaact]

that'll be 8-14 since Barzal went down for the "play the game the right way" hive mind

 

[Chockey22]

If the reports are true that Lou had an offer for Pageau and he turned it down because it was picks not players, it reinforces my view that Lou is a complete moron. I understand not wanting to retain salary - fine - but insisting on roster players back makes no sense. What roster player of any value could you even get back for Pageau? It makes no sense. Hopefully, he can move Pageau for picks at the draft, and not have to retain.

 

[mm11]

that'll be 8-14 since Barzal went down for the "play the game the right way" hive mind

At that point didn't we have a six game winning streak?

 

[PK Cronin]

that'll be 8-14 since Barzal went down for the "play the game the right way" hive mind

I can't help but think these posts are directed at me. I brought up a factual stat to counter the argument that the team is emphatically worse without him than with him and you seem to be really upset at that the reality of that stat at the time so now you need to keep bringing up the wins and losses after every loss. Don't worry, we can tally the whole thing at the end and look at all the metrics (including those for other players, like Horvat, who deserve some criticism).

Once again, the idea isn't to drop him off on a deserted island and not replace him. Moving on from Barzal means replacing him with someone of similar talent but a different skill set. Everyone acknowledges that Barzal is talented and that the team needs more talent. One of the ways to get talent is by trading your talent for talent that fits better. Why does this need to be brought up over and over again? It is not an outlandish take. How else are we supposed to get the talent? You can't trade your garbage for elite talent most of the time.

 

[Zeeker]

I can't help but think these posts are directed at me.

Sir Throttle would like a word

 

[Chockey22]

I can't help but think these posts are directed at me. I brought up a factual stat to counter the argument that the team is emphatically worse without him than with him and you seem to be really upset at that the reality of that stat at the time so now you need to keep bringing up the wins and losses after every loss. Don't worry, we can tally the whole thing at the end and look at all the metrics (including those for other players, like Horvat, who deserve some criticism).

Once again, the idea isn't to drop him off on a deserted island and not replace him. Moving on from Barzal means replacing him with someone of similar talent but a different skill set. Everyone acknowledges that Barzal is talented and that the team needs more talent. One of the ways to get talent is by trading your talent for talent that fits better. Why does this need to be brought up over and over again? It is not an outlandish take. How else are we supposed to get the talent? You can't trade your garbage for elite talent most of the time.

I actually think it's directed toward another poster. I completely appreciate this perspective, but trading Barzal for roughly equivalent, but slightly different, talent is just a sideways move. The goal needs to be to increase the amount of skill on the roster - not rearrange it. I just don't see any way you trade Barzal and end up with more skill coming back, unless 1) there's some kind of baggage/issue with the player or 2) you add to Barzal - which is not what we should be doing.

 

[PK Cronin]

I actually think it's directed toward another poster. I completely appreciate this perspective, but trading Barzal for roughly equivalent, but slightly different, talent is just a sideways move. The goal needs to be to increase the amount of skill on the roster - not rearrange it. I just don't see any way you trade Barzal and end up with more skill coming back, unless 1) there's some kind of baggage/issue with the player or 2) you add to Barzal - which is not what we should be doing.

It could be a sideways move, or it could be like that Huberdeau trade for Florida. Worst case scenario you're in the same position of needing more talent. By keeping Barzal we're in need of more talent anyway. I think the only way to turn this thing around quickly is to move assets like Barzal or Dobson for other assets, and in most cases multiple assets, to then use in other deals acquiring more talent.

 

[impaaaaaact]

At that point didn't we have a six game winning streak?

Yes. To be fair we also traded Nelson lol but the "better without Barzal" thing got way out of hand

 

[impaaaaaact]

It could be a sideways move, or it could be like that Huberdeau trade for Florida. Worst case scenario you're in the same position of needing more talent. By keeping Barzal we're in need of more talent anyway. I think the only way to turn this thing around quickly is to move assets like Barzal or Dobson for other assets, and in most cases multiple assets, to then use in other deals acquiring more talent.

I feel like the return on a Dobson trade would be much larger - it's the only reason that I would think about letting him go. But I think trading Dobson is more likely to get us a Huberdeau effect. I think it's maybe just as likely that Dobson explodes under the right coach/in the right situation. But that might be a risk you take at this point.

 

[mm11]

I feel like the return on a Dobson trade would be much larger - it's the only reason that I would think about letting him go. But I think trading Dobson is more likely to get us a Huberdeau effect. I think it's maybe just as likely that Dobson explodes under the right coach/in the right situation. But that might be a risk you take at this point.

Just don't see the "it" factor in Dobson. Where is that alpha we thought we were getting with the accolades of anchoring two memorial cups? At least with Barzal he has proven playoff success and has fire in the belly. Think Dobson rounds out as a top 4. I would seriously entertain what the market would offer before dropping 8 years on him.

 

[Chockey22]

It could be a sideways move, or it could be like that Huberdeau trade for Florida. Worst case scenario you're in the same position of needing more talent. By keeping Barzal we're in need of more talent anyway. I think the only way to turn this thing around quickly is to move assets like Barzal or Dobson for other assets, and in most cases multiple assets, to then use in other deals acquiring more talent.

The danger of this analogy is that the 2025 Islanders are nowhere near the 2022 Panthers - it would be a huge mistake to use that as the correct blueprint. Florida already had multiple elite assets in place, the Isles have none

 

[PK Cronin]

I feel like the return on a Dobson trade would be much larger - it's the only reason that I would think about letting him go. But I think trading Dobson is more likely to get us a Huberdeau effect. I think it's maybe just as likely that Dobson explodes under the right coach/in the right situation. But that might be a risk you take at this point.

I wouldn't have a problem trading Dobson either. He might produce offensively but you cannot win with him as a #1 because he can't play in all situations and doesn't have any ability to play shut down defense. We just have to see one of our more talented guys dealt.

 

[Kevin27nyi]

Just don't see the "it" factor in Dobson. Where is that alpha we thought we were getting with the accolades of anchoring two memorial cups? At least with Barzal he has proven playoff success and has fire in the belly. Think Dobson rounds out as a top 4. I would seriously entertain what the market would offer before dropping 8 years on him.

Ultimately this is my opinion.

 

[Glorydays22]

The problem with entaining trading Barzal and/or Dobson...whomever is coming back in the trade is still coming into a GOD AWFUL roster.

So to me, if you are going to make that move in dealing either, you HAVE to move all the other dead wood on this roster and I don't care how you do it. If not, it will be the same situation with just without them.

You cannot go into next season with have this roster back....I mean it.

Goalie - Done - Vary.......

Defense, Mayfield, Pelech have to go....Pulock and Dobson if the price is right. I don't want guys like Boqvist, Perunovich or Reilly back at all.

Forwards - Gone- Duclair, Fasching, Engvall, MacLean, Lee, Cizkas - on the fence with Pageau, Palmieri and Tsyplakov

 

[Run It Back]

Seemed to recall he outdueled future Stanley cup champion barkov as well.

Outdueled him? Personally? You mean in the "qualifying round" of COVID CUP I where nobody knew WTF was going on? Wow, that's quite an accomplishment. So I guess if the opportunity presented itself you would not trade Barzal for Barkov, do I have that right?

 

[ekill08x]

I'm not referring to broadcasts, I'm only speaking about these boards.

Plenty of people on here view him as an elite player or talent and are unwilling to acknowledge his shortcomings, viewing any and all criticisms as unfair or unjust simply because he is the most talented player on the team.



I don't find that to be true about the corners, and it's certainly not true if we're counting going towards the front of the net and taking abuse. Barzal stays on the perimeter and will often avoid contact, he also doesn't throw hits often.

I've got issues with both of them in the D zone at times.

because it’s not true at all lol. like not even remotely close to being true.

 

[mm11]

Are you not counting that series? Taking it away as an accomplishment for the 22 year old #13?

 

[impaaaaaact]

I can't help but think these posts are directed at me. I brought up a factual stat to counter the argument that the team is emphatically worse without him than with him and you seem to be really upset at that the reality of that stat at the time so now you need to keep bringing up the wins and losses after every loss. Don't worry, we can tally the whole thing at the end and look at all the metrics (including those for other players, like Horvat, who deserve some criticism).

Once again, the idea isn't to drop him off on a deserted island and not replace him. Moving on from Barzal means replacing him with someone of similar talent but a different skill set. Everyone acknowledges that Barzal is talented and that the team needs more talent. One of the ways to get talent is by trading your talent for talent that fits better. Why does this need to be brought up over and over again? It is not an outlandish take. How else are we supposed to get the talent? You can't trade your garbage for elite talent most of the time.

PK, much respect to you as a poster, and just saw this post. I would never subtweet you - I had other posters in mind. That being said... upset? Maybe a re-read is in order.

There are many different conversations going on at the same time. I have never said I wouldn't trade Barzal for a better talent. No clue what you're referring to when you're talking about a desert Island. Again, maybe a re-read is in order. I say so on the main trade boards all the time. "Barzal is available in package for a more impactful player". The posts are up. I have not disputed that at any time.

The only time I push back is when people start saying he's not good, or wildly overpaid. It gets pretty fictional pretty quickly on here sometimes. There are other posters who seem to actively root against him, which to me feels pretty dumb when he's the best player on your team.

 

[SI]

I'm not referring to broadcasts, I'm only speaking about these boards.

Plenty of people on here view him as an elite player or talent and are unwilling to acknowledge his shortcomings, viewing any and all criticisms as unfair or unjust simply because he is the most talented player on the team.



I don't find that to be true about the corners, and it's certainly not true if we're counting going towards the front of the net and taking abuse. Barzal stays on the perimeter and will often avoid contact, he also doesn't throw hits often.

I've got issues with both of them in the D zone at times.

Absolutely, NOT. Props to @LAIcelanders
Barzal isn’t just a perimeter player—he battles. He’s shifty, hard to knock off the puck, and will take contact to make a play. He’s not a power forward, but he doesn’t shy away from a hit if it means keeping possession. He can get involved down low, win battles, and protect the puck, even if it’s not his default mode. He may not park himself net-front like Lee or Horvat, but that’s not his job. He curls, delays, and looks to create. And when the stakes are high—especially in the playoffs—he steps up, gets inside, and makes things happen. He’s not soft. He’s just not a grinder.

I think if he drove to the net more it may add more balance.

 

[SI]

Back to the playoff push - 9 Games left - I think 87 points will be enough to secure that final spot. In order for the Isles to reach that number, they would need to go 6-2-1.

1. Tampa - in a battle for division
2. Minnesota - they have Blues breathing down their necks
3. Washington - Ovie watch
4. @ Nashville - nothing to lose
5. Rangers - in the hunt
6. @ Flyers - new coach bump
7. @ NJ - they are limping and need to strengthen their game
8. Washington - Ovie watch
9. @ Columbus - in the hunt and might still be playing for a playoff spot

This stretch of games looks really tough and could easily go 2-6-1 in this stretch. The guys battle and there is a lot of heart in that room - that embrace by Lee and Horvat was very telling of how much these guys want it. However, they simply cannot sustain this level; they have dug themselves too deep a hole and I think they ultimately fall short.

And that is OK, it means changes (and hopefully to Roy's coaching staff) and it means maybe a higher pick.

 

[saintunspecified]

I think if he drove to the net more it may add more balance.

It's true, but I think these long stretches without him have really shown that his biggest strength isn't necessarily generating offense, but decreasing the strain on the defense by maintaining possession. Here's all the things he does that isn't directly related to scoring:

- He's the hunter or rover or whatever you call it on breakouts, I don't know hockey terminology. In a line with Horvat and Lee for example, now there's two plays who can pay that role, as opposed to Palmieri and Lee going up the side for a stretch pass then dump or tip in 70% of the time.
- He maintains puck possession while defenders change. Especially in the 2nd period, this is an ability you can't discount.
- His ability to get back into position quickly give his linemates much greater confidence to play hard to try to maintain/get possession as opposed to backing away.

Yeah, he's fast and dynamic, but his biggest strength is slowing the game down from a frenetic pace.

Yeah I know he turns the puck over sometimes. But the rate of turnovers judged against the time of puck possession (and what that allows his teammates to do - including changing) + the fact that he actually is able to get back in position or backcheck effectively when that happens. There's a reason Kyle Palmieri is -12, and Mat Barzal is +10. I know +/- isn't something that means that much on its own, but you can see this **** happen on the ice.

I think these Barzal discussions just miss so much of the point. Yes, the Islanders don't have the star players they need to become real contenders, but the overwhelming likelihood is that if Barzal is traded, he will be the best player traded in the deal.

What has been most disturbing to me over the last few weeks is the extraordinary deterioration in Adam Pelech's game. It's almost shocking. He's very quickly risen to the top of the list of buyout candidates for me. As I've said before, there's not much point buying out JGP, and it'd be a mistake to buy out Lee. But Pelech? He's been so bad, and his discouraging body language has been even worse.

 

[Glory Days]

It's true, but I think these long stretches without him have really shown that his biggest strength isn't necessarily generating offense, but decreasing the strain on the defense by maintaining possession. Here's all the things he does that isn't directly related to scoring:

- He's the hunter or rover or whatever you call it on breakouts, I don't know hockey terminology. In a line with Horvat and Lee for example, now there's two plays who can pay that role, as opposed to Palmieri and Lee going up the side for a stretch pass then dump or tip in 70% of the time.
- He maintains puck possession while defenders change. Especially in the 2nd period, this is an ability you can't discount.
- His ability to get back into position quickly give his linemates much greater confidence to play hard to try to maintain/get possession as opposed to backing away.

Yeah, he's fast and dynamic, but his biggest strength is slowing the game down from a frenetic pace.

Yeah I know he turns the puck over sometimes. But the rate of turnovers judged against the time of puck possession (and what that allows his teammates to do - including changing) + the fact that he actually is able to get back in position or backcheck effectively when that happens. There's a reason Kyle Palmieri is -12, and Mat Barzal is +10. I know +/- isn't something that means that much on its own, but you can see this **** happen on the ice.

I think these Barzal discussions just miss so much of the point. Yes, the Islanders don't have the star players they need to become real contenders, but the overwhelming likelihood is that if Barzal is traded, he will be the best player traded in the deal.

What has been most disturbing to me over the last few weeks is the extraordinary deterioration in Adam Pelech's game. It's almost shocking. He's very quickly risen to the top of the list of buyout candidates for me. As I've said before, there's not much point buying out JGP, and it'd be a mistake to buy out Lee. But Pelech? He's been so bad, and his discouraging body language has been even worse.

Injuries have caught up to Pelech. I’m not sure he has any trade value at this point.

 

[PK Cronin]

PK, much respect to you as a poster, and just saw this post. I would never subtweet you - I had other posters in mind. That being said... upset? Maybe a re-read is in order.

Appreciate it, I just hadn't seen those posts until I posted the spreadsheet of wins and losses with/without Barzal so I assumed it was for me.

There are many different conversations going on at the same time. I have never said I wouldn't trade Barzal for a better talent. No clue what you're referring to when you're talking about a desert Island. Again, maybe a re-read is in order. I say so on the main trade boards all the time. "Barzal is available in package for a more impactful player". The posts are up. I have not disputed that at any time.

I don't head to the main boards often enough so I truly don't know.

The desert island commentary is about using the fact he isn't in the lineup and how the team is struggling as an example of why we need him. "See, if we don't have Barzal we can't win" is the sentiment I get from those posts. I'm just trying to highlight that nobody, even Throttle, wants to jettison Barzal for nothing so it's not a true reflection of what life would be like without Barzal.

The only time I push back is when people start saying he's not good, or wildly overpaid. It gets pretty fictional pretty quickly on here sometimes. There are other posters who seem to actively root against him, which to me feels pretty dumb when he's the best player on your team.

Understood, I just think it's more frustration than anything.

Absolutely, NOT. Props to @LAIcelanders
Barzal isn’t just a perimeter player—he battles. He’s shifty, hard to knock off the puck, and will take contact to make a play. He’s not a power forward, but he doesn’t shy away from a hit if it means keeping possession. He can get involved down low, win battles, and protect the puck, even if it’s not his default mode. He may not park himself net-front like Lee or Horvat, but that’s not his job. He curls, delays, and looks to create. And when the stakes are high—especially in the playoffs—he steps up, gets inside, and makes things happen. He’s not soft. He’s just not a grinder.

I think if he drove to the net more it may add more balance.

He curls, he delays, he looks for open passing lanes, but you wish he drove the net to add more balance. He's not a power forward, he doesn't go into the slot, and the majority of what you're highlighting is his ability to stay on the perimeter but he's not a perimeter player?

I didn't say he never does any of those things either but to suggest he does it more than Horvat is crazy.

 

[Glory Days]

PK, much respect to you as a poster, and just saw this post. I would never subtweet you - I had other posters in mind. That being said... upset? Maybe a re-read is in order.

There are many different conversations going on at the same time. I have never said I wouldn't trade Barzal for a better talent. No clue what you're referring to when you're talking about a desert Island. Again, maybe a re-read is in order. I say so on the main trade boards all the time. "Barzal is available in package for a more impactful player". The posts are up. I have not disputed that at any time.

The only time I push back is when people start saying he's not good, or wildly overpaid. It gets pretty fictional pretty quickly on here sometimes. There are other posters who seem to actively root against him, which to me feels pretty dumb when he's the best player on your team.

We have been going back and forth on Barzal but based on your above post I think we are more aligned than you think. I’ve never said Barzal isn’t good or vastly over paid. I do think he is somewhat over paid. My main reason for wanting to trade him is to get a different type of player. The whole roster needs an overhaul and upgrades. For me that means changing up the core. I would move Barzal and Dobson as these two have the most trade value and would bring back the most talent. The current core has had enough time and change is needed.

 

[SI90]

I wouldn't have a problem trading Dobson either. He might produce offensively but you cannot win with him as a #1 because he can't play in all situations and doesn't have any ability to play shut down defense. We just have to see one of our more talented guys dealt.

If he puts up 70pts on defense you can live with the short comings but he’s gotta consistently produce offensively. Even still, having an elite offensive defenseman is good but I’d prefer a Jacob Slavin as my number 1 guy. But they don’t grow on trees.

There was a time we were deep defensively AND had a defensive genius coaching us. We got it done with no true number 1 but a lot of really good top4 guys.

Pelech Pulock Leddy Boychuck Toews Dobson

It’s extremely hard to find a true franchise #1 defenseman and I think sometimes people take for granted just how important those guys are.

I’m not eager to trade Dobson because of his age and offensive upside but if the right deal was proposed I’d obviously be open to it. The tricky thing is I wouldn’t want draft picks. I’d need an already established young player and that’s a hard trade to match up for.

I’d also caution about our past trading away young defenseman McCabe Chara Brewer Toews. A Bird in hand.