Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[LeapOnOver]

The gymnastics being done here to defend Barzal’s salary is stunning.

The gymnastics aren't going both ways? You are better than that....

 

[Kevin27nyi]

Anyway... in other news, MTL lost and CBJ made a crazy comeback against the nucks. 3 goal deficit erased in the second, then a two goal deficit erased in the third... only to have one called back for goaltender interference. Got that one back, then took the lead with 3 minutes left. Gave another one up 30 seconds later. Crazy game.

Anyway they leapfrogged us and MTL

Ducks then beat Rags in OT. Rags were up 3-1 last I saw and I woke up to see a 5-4 OTL

 

[MarsTBOW]

I'd say real gymnastics are choosing to ignore how many games are played in a season lmao, pretty difficult to cherry pick any harder than that. But that would actually effect everyone, so here's how other players look applying that rule.

Horvat (8.5M): 54.5
Nelson (TBD): 53.625
Lee (7M): 44.5

Barzal has lead the team in points every year of his career(!!) except the 2 where he's had injuries... and even with those injuries he leads all Isles forwards in PPG(including games he's missed) over that time, which spans his entire career. I personally find that pretty difficult to complain about but seems like I might be in the minority here.

Nobody would love to see Barzal have a Huge season more than me, just feel he is underwhelming.
I generally think we do not get max point production for the Cash we spend.
Holmstrom is a bargain at his production for what we are paying him.
Tsyplakov Too, but that will change with a new contract next year...

 

[doublechili]

I'm on the fence about "The Barzal Controversy". But, say a guy gets 80 points as a rookie and then misses the entire next season - that makes him a 40 point per season player?

I didn't know that.

 

[Glory Days]

I'm on the fence about "The Barzal Controversy". But, say a guy gets 80 points as a rookie and then misses the entire next season - that makes him a 40 point per season player?

I didn't know that.

I get your point but don’t games missed matter? The reality of the situation is that Barzal produces less than 60 points per season for $9M per season. I don’t like that return on investment. So if I could replace Barzal for a similar salary but get more production I would.

 

[Osakahaus]

just so everyone is on the same page, Barzal has averaged 72 points per 82 for his career.

It’s true that Barzal and Pelech have played around the same amount of games over the last 5 years. The biggest difference between them is probably that when Barzal plays he averages 72 points per 82, and Pelech really hasn’t looked the same since his glut of injuries.

Pelech has CTE. I genuinely believe he has been injured like hell

 

[Osakahaus]

I'm on the fence about "The Barzal Controversy". But, say a guy gets 80 points as a rookie and then misses the entire next season - that makes him a 40 point per season player?

I didn't know that.

Two way player with Trotz lowered his points dramatically, and adding less and less offensive talent takes a toll on point production.

 

[duster19]

Anyway... in other news, MTL lost and CBJ made a crazy comeback against the nucks. 3 goal deficit erased in the second, then a two goal deficit erased in the third... only to have one called back for goaltender interference. Got that one back, then took the lead with 3 minutes left. Gave another one up 30 seconds later. Crazy game.

Anyway they leapfrogged us and MTL

Pretty bad showing from the WC2 race so far. I have no idea how we are in this. High 80s gets you in…

 

[impaaaaaact]

I get your point but don’t games missed matter? The reality of the situation is that Barzal produces less than 60 points per season for $9M per season. I don’t like that return on investment. So if I could replace Barzal for a similar salary but get more production I would.

Every single player that has been on our roster over the last 8 years produces less than 60 points per season, except for John Tavares who gets paid 20% more than Barzal.

Of course you’d rather have more production for the price - you could say that about every player. I don’t think that means he’s not living up to his contract though

 

[MJF]

Every single player that has been on our roster over the last 8 years produces less than 60 points per season, except for John Tavares who gets paid 20% more than Barzal.

Of course you’d rather have more production for the price - you could say that about every player. I don’t think that means he’s not living up to his contract though

That’s exactly what it means! Jeez Louise.

Frankly it means that for every player you think is underproducing. The only guy who had a contract that was on par with his production was Brock Nelson. And FWIW I think he’ll ask for Horvat money on his next contract.

 

[Glory Days]

Every single player that has been on our roster over the last 8 years produces less than 60 points per season, except for John Tavares who gets paid 20% more than Barzal.

Of course you’d rather have more production for the price - you could say that about every player. I don’t think that means he’s not living up to his contract though

Many in this board, myself included, think Lou overpays. Now to a certain extent I know he has to since the Isles are not a draw for free agents. All I’m saying is that Barzal should not be exempt from the same criticism I read about many other players. Many are quick to criticize players like Pageau and Palms as overpaid middle six players but quick to defend Barzal as not overpaid as the Isles best forward. I don’t agree with that logic and expect more of the highest paid players not less.

 

[MJF]

Many in this board, myself included, think Lou overpays. Now to a certain extent I know he has to since the Isles are not a draw for free agents. All I’m saying is that Barzal should not be exempt from the same criticism I read about many other players. Many are quick to criticize players like Pageau and Palms as overpaid middle six players but quick to defend Barzal as not overpaid as the Isles best forward. I don’t agree with that logic and expect more of the highest paid players not less.

Thank you!

 

[SI]

Being injured helps no one....
My point is 57.75 pts for $9,150,000
Worth it?
Nope.....

The 2018-2019 season is +1 after Rookie and Year 1 of Trotz. That season, there was a lot of learning to play two-way hockey. He was 21 the entire season and played every game.
His stat line was -

• 82 GP - 18 G - 44 A - 62 Points.
• Leading the team in points for a second year in a row

The 2019-2020 season was struck short due to COVID-19 Barzal played every single game that season. His stat line was -

• 68 GP - 19 G - 41 - 60 Points. The Islanders played 68 Games.
• Based on 82 GP that is 71 Points
• Leading the team in points for a third year in a row

The 2020-21 season was shortened due to Covid-19. Barzal missed 1 game

• 55 GP - 17 G - 28 - 45 Points. The Islanders played 56 Games.
• Based on 82 GP that is 66 Points
• Leading the team in points for a fourth year in a row

The 2021-22 season. Barzal missed about 10 games due to injury.

• 73 GP - 15 G - 44 - 59 Points.
• Based on 82 GP that is 66 Points
• Was tied with Brock Nelson for the team lead in scoring

The 2022-23 season. Barzal injury forced him to miss 23 games of the regular season

• 58 GP - 14 G - 37 - 51 Points.
• Based on 82 GP that is 72 Points
• Was second on the team in scoring

The 2023-24 season. Barzal injury forced him to miss 2 games of the regular season

• 80 GP - 23 G - 57 - 80 Points.
• Was first on the team in scoring

2024-25 has been marked by 2 major injuries... IMO, He is done for the season

I’ll end with this: He’s never going to be a great goal scorer—that’s not his game. He’s a playmaker.

I’m a big fan of Mat Barzal. I can appreciate North-South hockey—it’s how I played the game—but watching his skill on display is exciting. I don’t want to see 60 minutes of dump-and-chase hockey—I want speed, creativity, and dynamic plays. He’s a special talent.

That said, his production hasn’t always matched his skillset, and that’s frustrating. But let’s put things in perspective: Barzal has led the team in scoring almost every season except one. He’s never had a true goal-scorer alongside him. If he’s being held responsible for not producing more, shouldn’t the other players be as well? And beyond that, should the systems in place also be held accountable?

Maty needs to produce, no question. But if he puts up 20 goals and 60 assists every season—on top of everything else he brings—I’ll be more than happy.

9.15 of the cap in a couple seasons will feel a lot better than it has in the flat cap era.

 

[doublechili]

I get your point but don’t games missed matter? The reality of the situation is that Barzal produces less than 60 points per season for $9M per season. I don’t like that return on investment. So if I could replace Barzal for a similar salary but get more production I would.

I think we're now in the first time where you can say Barzal's injuries are maybe crossing over into being an issue. Prior to this year he had one relatively extended absence (20+ games). Now this year obviously is extended. But, taking his total points and dividing by season's played to come up with an points-per-season number considering the two Covid years as well seems kind of stretching the point to fit a narrative, IMO.

I think it's fair based on his history to say he's a 70-80 point player. The other can of worms is that everyone says we have no finishers, and Barzal is a playmaker, but I really don't want to get into the old "he doesn't have the right linemates" thing!

 

[Big L]

Ugh. Edit

 

[Glorydays22]

Interesting little tidbit, if true...

View attachment 1001105

REPORT: Edmonton Oilers’ Missed Trade – Why Jean-Gabriel Pageau Stayed with the Islanders

The Oilers explored adding Jean-Gabriel Pageau before the NHL Trade Deadline. Find out why a deal with the Islanders never happened.

rg.org

I don't mind the Lou didn't wan to do this for Pageau. I would want a young player and a pick, definitely agree with not retaining salary.

 

[Chockey22]

It’s strange how people want this to be divided into two camps, as though there’s no common sense middle ground. Barzal is overpaid, but Barzal is also a very good player that makes the team better when he is the lineup. He is rightly criticized for passing up shot chances and curling back too often when he should drive the net. At the same time, he controls the play and carries the puck better than 95% of players in the league, and has very good (though not elite) passing ability.

 

[LAIcelanders]

I get your point but don’t games missed matter? The reality of the situation is that Barzal produces less than 60 points per season for $9M per season. I don’t like that return on investment. So if I could replace Barzal for a similar salary but get more production I would.

The reality of the situation is that Mat Barzal scored 80 points in the first season he got paid over $9m.

 

[duster19]

I don't mind the Lou didn't wan to do this for Pageau. I would want a young player and a pick, definitely agree with not retaining salary.

I get not retaining. The only reason we need young players and not picks is because Lou hasn’t really drafted much and the cupboards are bare. We need to shift focus from short to the medium term. If we don’t…it’s going to be long term soon. Picks can be turned into young players too (e.g. Romonov) I would have liked the cap savings and culture change. The draft and the deadline are the 2 biggest opportunities for change. I really feel if Lou had of sold we would be in a much better position over the coming seasons. We just delayed the inevitable by not selling more…

 

[Glorydays22]

​

 

[Glorydays22]

Player	salary	Games played	Total points	Goals	Assist	Pts per game
Pettersson (Van)	11.6M	471	457	185	272	0.97
Aho (Car)	9.75M	669	623	281	342	0.931
Guentzel (TBL)	9M	591	561	263	298	0.949
Barzal (NYI)	9.1M	530	462	134	328	0.872
Larkin (Det)	8.7M	768	591	249	342	0.769
Tkachuk (Ott)	8.2M	509	404	191	213	0.793
Kyrou (STL)	8.125M	408	324	145	179	0.794
Thomas (STL)	8.125M	458	381	105	276	0.831

Barzal is listed at 34th this year in highest salaries. I don't think Barzal is that overpaid, maybe he should be at $8.7M. But we aren't talking crazy overpayment.

Again, look at this small sample. Of all these teams - Van, Carolina, Tampa, Det, Ott, St. Louis and the Isles. Where do you rank the offense. To me, Isles are dead last on this list.

Also, he is regardless of whether you believe it or now, is our best offensive player. And if you ask all teams, he would be the ONLY one on this roster teams worry about offensively.

This team has PLENTY OF WARTS....but can we stop just putting everything on Barzal. It's Mgmt, Lou are the main issues. After that, this defense is HORRIBLE! I would keep maybe just 1 defensemen (Romanov) and move everyone else

 

[MarsTBOW]

The 2018-2019 season is +1 after Rookie and Year 1 of Trotz. That season, there was a lot of learning to play two-way hockey. He was 21 the entire season and played every game.
His stat line was -

• 82 GP - 18 G - 44 A - 62 Points. The Islanders played 68 Games.
• Based on 82 GP that is 71 Points
• Leading the team in points for a second year in a row

The 2019-2020 season was struck short due to COVID-19 Barzal played every single game that season. His stat line was -

• 68 GP - 19 G - 41 - 60 Points. The Islanders played 68 Games.
• Based on 82 GP that is 71 Points
• Leading the team in points for a third year in a row

The 2020-21 season was shortened due to Covid-19. Barzal missed 1 game

• 55 GP - 17 G - 28 - 45 Points. The Islanders played 56 Games.
• Based on 82 GP that is 66 Points
• Leading the team in points for a fourth year in a row

The 2021-22 season. Barzal missed about 10 games due to injury.

• 73 GP - 15 G - 44 - 59 Points.
• Based on 82 GP that is 66 Points
• Was tied with Brock Nelson for the team lead in scoring

The 2022-23 season. Barzal injury forced him to miss 23 games of the regular season

• 58 GP - 14 G - 37 - 51 Points.
• Based on 82 GP that is 72 Points
• Was second on the team in scoring

The 2023-24 season. Barzal injury forced him to miss 2 games of the regular season

• 80 GP - 23 G - 57 - 80 Points.
• Was first on the team in scoring

2024-25 has been marked by 2 major injuries... IMO, He is done for the season

I’ll end with this: He’s never going to be a great goal scorer—that’s not his game. He’s a playmaker.

I’m a big fan of Mat Barzal. I can appreciate North-South hockey—it’s how I played the game—but watching his skill on display is exciting. I don’t want to see 60 minutes of dump-and-chase hockey—I want speed, creativity, and dynamic plays. He’s a special talent.

That said, his production hasn’t always matched his skillset, and that’s frustrating. But let’s put things in perspective: Barzal has led the team in scoring almost every season except one. He’s never had a true goal-scorer alongside him. If he’s being held responsible for not producing more, shouldn’t the other players be as well? And beyond that, should the systems in place also be held accountable?

Maty needs to produce, no question. But if he puts up 20 goals and 60 assists every season—on top of everything else he brings—I’ll be more than happy.

9.15 of the cap in a couple seasons will feel a lot better than it has in the flat cap era.

Agreed, he is a special talent.

 

[MarsTBOW]

It’s strange how people want this to be divided into two camps, as though there’s no common sense middle ground. Barzal is overpaid, but Barzal is also a very good player that makes the team better when he is the lineup. He is rightly criticized for passing up shot chances and curling back too often when he should drive the net. At the same time, he controls the play and carries the puck better than 95% of players in the league, and has very good (though not elite) passing ability.

Nobody else has more give aways and take ways than Barzy....
Extremely Frustrating!!!!

 

[Lek]

Nobody else has more give aways and take ways than Barzy....
Extremely Frustrating!!!!

Yes, he is tops in both categories....wants to be the best at everything?

 

[Chockey22]

Player	salary	Games played	Total points	Goals	Assist	Pts per game
Pettersson (Van)	11.6M	471	457	185	272	0.97
Aho (Car)	9.75M	669	623	281	342	0.931
Guentzel (TBL)	9M	591	561	263	298	0.949
Barzal (NYI)	9.1M	530	462	134	328	0.872
Larkin (Det)	8.7M	768	591	249	342	0.769
Tkachuk (Ott)	8.2M	509	404	191	213	0.793
Kyrou (STL)	8.125M	408	324	145	179	0.794
Thomas (STL)	8.125M	458	381	105	276	0.831

Barzal is listed at 34th this year in highest salaries. I don't think Barzal is that overpaid, maybe he should be at $8.7M. But we aren't talking crazy overpayment.

Again, look at this small sample. Of all these teams - Van, Carolina, Tampa, Det, Ott, St. Louis and the Isles. Where do you rank the offense. To me, Isles are dead last on this list.

Also, he is regardless of whether you believe it or now, is our best offensive player. And if you ask all teams, he would be the ONLY one on this roster teams worry about offensively.

This team has PLENTY OF WARTS....but can we stop just putting everything on Barzal. It's Mgmt, Lou are the main issues. After that, this defense is HORRIBLE! I would keep maybe just 1 defensemen (Romanov) and move everyone else

It's interesting, I agree with much of what you've said about Barzal, but I don't agree about the Defense; and I'm curious if others see it differently. As distinct units, I think the Isles Goaltending and D core is slightly above NHL average, and their F core is well below average. A lot of the problems our D players have is due to our terrible forwards, who turn the puck over in poor spots, routinely fail to take passes, lose defensive board battles, and often don't get the puck in deep in the offensive zone or sustain pressure.
If I had to keep either our D core or our Forward core, I would take the D core everyday.