Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[Glory Days]

Player	salary	Games played	Total points	Goals	Assist	Pts per game
Pettersson (Van)	11.6M	471	457	185	272	0.97
Aho (Car)	9.75M	669	623	281	342	0.931
Guentzel (TBL)	9M	591	561	263	298	0.949
Barzal (NYI)	9.1M	530	462	134	328	0.872
Larkin (Det)	8.7M	768	591	249	342	0.769
Tkachuk (Ott)	8.2M	509	404	191	213	0.793
Kyrou (STL)	8.125M	408	324	145	179	0.794
Thomas (STL)	8.125M	458	381	105	276	0.831

Barzal is listed at 34th this year in highest salaries. I don't think Barzal is that overpaid, maybe he should be at $8.7M. But we aren't talking crazy overpayment.

Again, look at this small sample. Of all these teams - Van, Carolina, Tampa, Det, Ott, St. Louis and the Isles. Where do you rank the offense. To me, Isles are dead last on this list.

Also, he is regardless of whether you believe it or now, is our best offensive player. And if you ask all teams, he would be the ONLY one on this roster teams worry about offensively.

This team has PLENTY OF WARTS....but can we stop just putting everything on Barzal. It's Mgmt, Lou are the main issues. After that, this defense is HORRIBLE! I would keep maybe just 1 defensemen (Romanov) and move everyone else

I agree we shouldn’t put everything on Barzal and Lou is the major problem. However what I can’t comprehend is the posters who refuse to put any blame on Barzal.

 

[Glorydays22]

I agree we shouldn’t put everything on Barzal and Lou is the major problem. However what I can’t comprehend is the posters who refuse to put any blame on Barzal.

I'm not saying Barzal has no blame at all. But you listen to a lot of the posters here and Barzal is the first one they blame when it comes down to calling out any of our players.

Replace Barzal on our team for any of these players above and they would fare the same with this roster. Sorry but it's true.

This team needs a roster overhaul, but more so an overhaul with mgmt, coaching and system. What is our system? Are we a defensive team still, we an agressive offensive system? I have no idea what our identity is supposed to be.

 

[BelovedIsles]

My issue with Barzal is that he’s not an elite core player; more of a complementary piece.

Bottom line, this franchise needs to upgrade its core. The elite teams have better cores, simply put.

 

[Glory Days]

I'm not saying Barzal has no blame at all. But you listen to a lot of the posters here and Barzal is the first one they blame when it comes down to calling out any of our players.

Replace Barzal on our team for any of these players above and they would fare the same with this roster. Sorry but it's true.

This team needs a roster overhaul, but more so an overhaul with mgmt, coaching and system. What is our system? Are we a defensive team still, we an agressive offensive system? I have no idea what our identity is supposed to be.

I’m not saying you don’t blame Barzal I just happened to reply to your post. I agree the roster needs an overhaul. However I think the overhaul needs to start with the top 2 forward lines and top 4 defenders. What drives me nuts is when posters ( again not you) focus on overhauling the bottom 2 forward lines and the bottom pair defenders.

 

[impaaaaaact]

That’s exactly what it means! Jeez Louise.

Frankly it means that for every player you think is underproducing. The only guy who had a contract that was on par with his production was Brock Nelson. And FWIW I think he’ll ask for Horvat money on his next contract.

....no it doesn't. you want as much production as possible per dollar, there is theoretically always room for improvement. you can always ask for more from any player, regardless of if they're performing at market price or not. Barzal is, which is perfect proof of that.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Many in this board, myself included, think Lou overpays. Now to a certain extent I know he has to since the Isles are not a draw for free agents. All I’m saying is that Barzal should not be exempt from the same criticism I read about many other players. Many are quick to criticize players like Pageau and Palms as overpaid middle six players but quick to defend Barzal as not overpaid as the Isles best forward. I don’t agree with that logic and expect more of the highest paid players not less.

And again, he has lead the team in points in each of his healthy years (6/8) and leads the team in points overall over that period too, agnostic of games played. He has been a part of more scoring plays than any player on the team for the better part of a decade.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if he did more, but it also doesn't mean he's not doing what he's being paid to do. If there were any player that we could point to that has been doing more for less (or more overall), I would acknowledge it. But there isn't anyone to acknowledge.

He was a 1C on two teams that went to the conference finals, a game from the SCF. He's paid like the third best player on most contenders. He is not the issue - they just need more players of equal or higher skill level.

 

[IslesNorway]

The big problem is the players who are actually ON the ice and can't score if their lives depended on it. Against the Lightning they had 38 shots and really should have won rather comfortably even if Sorokin had an off day, but they are just unable to put away the chances. Now, that has plagued the Islanders for years and seemingly no coaching staff is able to fix it.

When your biggest chances fall to the likes of McLean and Fasching you have a problem. The only player who is really doing well in that regard is Gatcomb, and that speaks volumes.

 

[xECK29x]

He was a 1C on two teams that went to the conference finals, a game from the SCF. He's paid like the third best player on most contenders. He is not the issue - they just need more players of equal or higher skill level.

Nailed it, we need to stop looking to trade the only talent we have, the issue is we need MORE of them.

 

[icelander25]

Nailed it, we need to stop looking to trade the only talent we have, the issue is we need MORE of them.

Agree, the core isn’t the best but replacing them for similar talent isn’t going to change the team. We have to add another piece to the core which is why adding a Marner or Ehlers for no assets is so important. Even with the cap going up it’ll be expensive, but personally I’d absolutely pay Marner $14x7 because he’d instantly become our best player and make others look better. If Barzal becomes our #2 (if you want to call him overlaid that doesn’t matter, but I think he’s fine priced).
Plus, if we do add Marner that means that we’d have to move out other salary that we should be doing anways. I’d like Ehlers too but not for more than $9x7 personally.
Plus if we add a #9-11 pick on top of Ritchie and Eiserman, that’s potentially 3 more top 6 guys we’ll add to the lineup. In the future a top six of Marner, Horvat, Barzal, Holmstrom (I believe he can be), + 2 of those 3 drastically improved the team.

 

[mm11]

Agree, the core isn’t the best but replacing them for similar talent isn’t going to change the team. We have to add another piece to the core which is why adding a Marner or Ehlers for no assets is so important. Even with the cap going up it’ll be expensive, but personally I’d absolutely pay Marner $14x7 because he’d instantly become our best player and make others look better. If Barzal becomes our #2 (if you want to call him overlaid that doesn’t matter, but I think he’s fine priced).
Plus, if we do add Marner that means that we’d have to move out other salary that we should be doing anways. I’d like Ehlers too but not for more than $9x7 personally.
Plus if we add a #9-11 pick on top of Ritchie and Eiserman, that’s potentially 3 more top 6 guys we’ll add to the lineup. In the future a top six of Marner, Horvat, Barzal, Holmstrom (I believe he can be), + 2 of those 3 drastically improved the team.

Being overlaid ain't half bad. LGI.

 

[icelander25]

Being overlaid ain't half bad. LGI.

lmao didn’t see that til now. You already know Barzal’s overlaid overpaid (he’s really not)

 

[seafoam]

Barzal just needs to shoot 200+ times a season and I will be happy.

 

[Run It Back]

He was a 1C on two teams that went to the conference finals, a game from the SCF. He's paid like the third best player on most contenders. He is not the issue - they just need more players of equal or higher skill level.

Hey, you think just like Lou! Don't you get it yet, it was an illusion built on a circumstance. Nothing more, and this organization is in the state it's in because our GM got sucked in by it.

As for Barzal, he was overpaid during the flat cap years but will be market price going forward (if he comes back healthy). And his 1C status was an indictment of the roster rather than a title that he earned with his performance.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Hey, you think just like Lou! Don't you get it yet, it was an illusion built on a circumstance. Nothing more, and this organization is in the state it's in because our GM got sucked in by it.

As for Barzal, he was overpaid during the flat cap years but will be market price going forward (if he comes back healthy). And his 1C status was an indictment of the roster rather than a title that he earned with his performance.

The shortened seasons were illusions, but the NHL playoffs are not. The Islanders won many playoff rounds with him as a 1C, where he lead the team in scoring both during the regular season and the playoffs.

I agree that it would be better to have had another player to make it unnecessary for him to be 1C. In reality that player was supposed to be Tavares, but he left.

Between Tavares walking for nothing and Snow missing on like 3 top 5 picks, that’s how you end up with Barzal as your best player. That doesn’t mean he’s bad or overpaid, it just means the team failed at asset management.

 

[SI]

Barzal just needs to shoot 200+ times a season and I will be happy.

He did last season - 240 - and was on pace to that this season too.

 

[mm11]

The shortened seasons were illusions, but the NHL playoffs are not. The Islanders won many playoff rounds with him as a 1C, where he lead the team in scoring both during the regular season and the playoffs.

I agree that it would be better to have had another player to make it unnecessary for him to be 1C. In reality that player was supposed to be Tavares, but he left.

Between Tavares walking for nothing and Snow missing on like 3 top 5 picks, that’s how you end up with Barzal as your best player. That doesn’t mean he’s bad or overpaid, it just means the team failed at asset management.

At the ripe old age of what 22 the kid was playing a big part in leading to the semi finals in back to back seasons. Can never underestimate that. I have no doubt he will be Stanley cup contender second option. If we ever trade him some team will be happy for a long time.

 

[mm11]

He did last season - 240 - and was on pace to that this season too.

Earning his contract with 80 points to boot playing for a pop gun offense. Lgi.

 

[Run It Back]

The shortened seasons were illusions, but the NHL playoffs are not. The Islanders won many playoff rounds with him as a 1C, where he lead the team in scoring both during the regular season and the playoffs.

I agree that it would be better to have had another player to make it unnecessary for him to be 1C. In reality that player was supposed to be Tavares, but he left.

Between Tavares walking for nothing and Snow missing on like 3 top 5 picks, that’s how you end up with Barzal as your best player. That doesn’t mean he’s bad or overpaid, it just means the team failed at asset management.

So just to be clear, you're saying that while the process that got this team to the playoffs during COVID was illusory, once there it was all just normal? Do I have that right?

I'm not saying they didn't make the best of the circumstance and shouldn't be acknowledged for doing so, but as you have stated, they failed at asset management subsequently. Do you know why they failed at asset management after those runs? Because Lou thought they had all the assets that they needed and all that was required was some tweaking around the edges. He, and most fans, completely misread those results and what they meant. There was nothing normal or indicative of team excellence going forward in any of it.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I'm not saying they didn't make the best of the circumstance and shouldn't be acknowledged for doing so, but as you have stated, they failed at asset management subsequently. Do you know why they failed at asset management after those runs? Because Lou thought they had all the assets that they needed and all that was required was some tweaking around the edges. He, and most fans, completely misread those results and what they meant. There was nothing normal or indicative of team excellence going forward in any of it.

Sorry, who or what are you arguing against? Feels like you’re getting a little lost in the sauce here. All I’ve said is that Barzal is our best player and is not overpaid.

You seem to have worked yourself up into a narrative about if the team should have continued to buy after the ECF runs, which is not a conversation anyone has been having.

But yeah, if you want to argue that the 5 playoff round wins over those two years including wins over Crosby’s Pens and Bergeron’s Bruins meant nothing at all that is certainly your prerogative. I don’t seem to remember you (or anyone at all, really) calling to reign it in after coming a game from the SCF - but I guess hindsight is 20-20.

 

[doublechili]

Agree, the core isn’t the best but replacing them for similar talent isn’t going to change the team. We have to add another piece to the core which is why adding a Marner or Ehlers for no assets is so important. Even with the cap going up it’ll be expensive, but personally I’d absolutely pay Marner $14x7 because he’d instantly become our best player and make others look better. If Barzal becomes our #2 (if you want to call him overlaid that doesn’t matter, but I think he’s fine priced).
Plus, if we do add Marner that means that we’d have to move out other salary that we should be doing anways. I’d like Ehlers too but not for more than $9x7 personally.
Plus if we add a #9-11 pick on top of Ritchie and Eiserman, that’s potentially 3 more top 6 guys we’ll add to the lineup. In the future a top six of Marner, Horvat, Barzal, Holmstrom (I believe he can be), + 2 of those 3 drastically improved the team.

Yeah, a lot of "the Barzal problem" is that he's the #1 talent among Isles forwards and no one else is even close (true even when Nelson was here). Add an elite talent as #1 and slide Barzal to #2, and he and his salary would look fine.

 

[Run It Back]

Sorry, who or what are you arguing against? Feels like you’re getting a little lost in the sauce here. All I’ve said is that Barzal is our best player and is not overpaid.

You seem to have worked yourself up into a narrative about if the team should have continued to buy after the ECF runs, which is not a conversation anyone has been having.

But yeah, if you want to argue that the 5 playoff round wins over those two years including wins over Crosby’s Pens and Bergeron’s Bruins meant nothing at all that is certainly your prerogative. I don’t seem to remember you (or anyone at all, really) calling to reign it in after coming a game from the SCF - but I guess hindsight is 20-20.

Regarding Barzal, I made my point previously. The fact that he was and maybe still is our best player is the entirety of the problem. He is very good, a star in the league, and given where the cap is going he will be paid market value going forward (we hope, based on his production post injury) but he is not elite and never has been and never will be and cannot be our cornerstone player if we ever hope to be considered among the league's very best for a sustained period of time.

As for the rest of it, it isn't hindsight. I was posting those very thoughts even then and was basically told that I was troll and was kicked off these pages despite the fact that you can't be an Islander fan for longer than I have been. I just like to deal in reality. As for your points about beating Crosby's Pens or Bergeron's Bruins, yes, they were very nice wins (I mean, the Pens kicked our ass up and down the ice but Tristan Jarry had other ideas) and I did not state anywhere that they meant nothing. But they also did not mean that that was a great team. It meant they got hot when they needed to. Bravo, it happens, and I suppose good for us, but then again, not really, because those runs, never having come close to being duplicated outside of COVID, were the fuel for Lou's future mismanagement.

 

[Osakahaus]

It’s strange how people want this to be divided into two camps, as though there’s no common sense middle ground. Barzal is overpaid, but Barzal is also a very good player that makes the team better when he is the lineup. He is rightly criticized for passing up shot chances and curling back too often when he should drive the net. At the same time, he controls the play and carries the puck better than 95% of players in the league, and has very good (though not elite) passing ability.

The problem is that the islanders have NOTHING outside of him and Palmieri. Horvat needs to score more than just 49 points. Our bottom 6 is atrocious. The way how Roy is handling Tsyplakov is atrocious. Holmstrom is fine but we need to get more creative centers. Pageau is aging. The defense core adds zero mobility outside of TDA and Perunovich, who is somehow in the doghouse because we really need to see Ryan Pulock lumber around and do nothing. There are so many GARBAGE facets to this roster that it makes me want to pull my hair out seeing just how this team is still considered "in the playoff chase". NHL fans deserve to see better. The Islanders got an amazing new arena and our reward for free agents is a nicely burned up Anthony Duclair, Zach Parise in the twilight of his career, assorted garbage 3rd pair defensemen, the retirement of Zdeno Chara, AHL fodder like Fasching and Gauthier, and Tsyplakov (who is the only one who actually has been pretty good)

John Ledecky and Scott Malkin are no different than Charles Wang right now. There is a severe lack of care for making not only fans care about this team, but a lack of making UBS arena meaningful. There is a genuinely disgusting feeling knowing that the Islanders have cut back on promotions like bobble heads and other decent perks (like using the parking garage) in the name of saving face. You know what would make people attend games? An offense that scored goals. You know what would make people care? Signing free agents. You know what would make people care? Trying to compete for the division instead of the wild card and praying to fifteen different gods that every team in the east shits themselves so we get smacked in round 1 again. Im sorry for the rant but the team just cannot keep lying to itself.

 

[Glory Days]

And again, he has lead the team in points in each of his healthy years (6/8) and leads the team in points overall over that period too, agnostic of games played. He has been a part of more scoring plays than any player on the team for the better part of a decade.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if he did more, but it also doesn't mean he's not doing what being paid to do. If there were any player that we could point to that has been doing more for less (or more overall), I would acknowledge it. But there isn't anyone to acknowledge.

He was a 1C on two teams that went to the conference finals, a game from the SCF. He's paid like the third best player on most contenders. He is not the issue - they just need more players of equal or higher skill level.

I never said he isn’t a good player. I think he is over paid for what he produces and the Isles would be better off using his cap on a different player.

I’m not sure how to define Stanley cup contender these days but there are currently 3 teams with 100 points. Barzal would be the highest paid forward on Winnipeg, only behind Ovi on the Caps. Dallas still has Benn and Seguin contracts but only Rantanan is in the upper echelon on that team. Barzal and Horvat’s contracts are in line with what those 3 teams pay their top players. Even by adding a Marner to give the Isles a big three I don’t see the Isles big 3 forwards competing with the top teams. Barzal and Horvat need to own that.

 

[Osakahaus]

I never said he isn’t a good player. I think he is over paid for what he produces and the Isles would be better off using his cap on a different player.

I’m not sure how to define Stanley cup contender these days but there are currently 3 teams with 100 points. Barzal would be the highest paid forward on Winnipeg, only behind Ovi on the Caps. Dallas still has Benn and Seguin contracts but only Rantanan is in the upper echelon on that team. Barzal and Horvat’s contracts are in line with what those 3 teams pay their top players. Even by adding a Marner to give the Isles a big three I don’t see the Isles big 3 forwards competing with the top teams. Barzal and Horvat need to own that.

We need to actually draft and develop talent too, which furthers the point that bridgeport is a horrible place for hockey players over the past two decades. It really does suck that the forwards never develop there at all. Islanders badly need skill players as well. You cannot keep lying to yourself when Barzal and Horvat continue to get shafted and thrown aside legitimate talent.

 

[mm11]

Sorry, who or what are you arguing against? Feels like you’re getting a little lost in the sauce here. All I’ve said is that Barzal is our best player and is not overpaid.

You seem to have worked yourself up into a narrative about if the team should have continued to buy after the ECF runs, which is not a conversation anyone has been having.

But yeah, if you want to argue that the 5 playoff round wins over those two years including wins over Crosby’s Pens and Bergeron’s Bruins meant nothing at all that is certainly your prerogative. I don’t seem to remember you (or anyone at all, really) calling to reign it in after coming a game from the SCF - but I guess hindsight is 20-20.

Seemed to recall he outdueled future Stanley cup champion barkov as well.