Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2024-25: Re-Tool, Re-Group, Re-Mix, Re-Build

[doublechili]

Today’s bullshit rumor - we trade Dobson within the division to a team with no need for an RHD

I don't know that I'd trust the Hockeyy Insiderr report as it's since been refuted by a report from Hockeyyyy Insiderrrr.

I always go with the rumor site with more consonants.

 

[Big L]

I don't know that I'd trust the Hockeyy Insiderr report as it's since been refuted by a report from Hockeyyyy Insiderrrr.

I always go with the rumor site with more consonants.

More consonants equals more correct.

 

[periferal]

Today’s bullshit rumor - we trade Dobson within the division to a team with no need for an RHD

Since this non-insider actually tagged the two teams would be beyond awesome if one or both replied and said something like, "Not only are we not talking trade, but we don't even like them."

 

[Arsenalogist24]

I know an Island for you Elias

 

[YearlyLottery]

Well I asked because I addressed this very thing you're saying yesterday. So either you didn't fully read my post on this...Or you don't want to fully digest it. For whatever reason you don't want to see the reality of the situation which is...The "new" lottery rules don't change anything - Getting top picks and hitting on them is still the most effective way to become a perennial Cup contender.

You want to just throw out everything that the Kings, Blackhawks, Penguins, Avalanche, Lightning, and Panthers have accomplished with tons of top 10 picks on all of their Cup winning rosters? Got news for you...Of that last 16 Cup winners those teams won 12 of them. That means 75% of the last 16 Cup winners had their core (most important players) being acquired by not trades or free agency...But top draft picks.

If you truly think that's going to change now that you can move up 10 spots in the lottery as opposed to 4, then you either don't know franchise building...Or are just denying that drafting top 5 works because you don't want to see the Islanders go down that road.

The reality is that in today's NHL more elite players/all-stars/hall of famers spend their prime years with the team that drafted them than are traded...So assuming you're going to build a Cup winning team with trades or free agency is literally going against what the data says.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and continue on with Lou and his "trade 1st rounders for average talent, then resign those players to bloated/lengthy deals that lead to a fringe playoff team at best" be my guest, but don't sit there and try to manipulate actual proven data to justify your opinion. At least have the balls to admit you don't want the Isles to lose to get top draft picks and build a team that way for whatever reason.

Your paragraphs here are meaningless. Period. LA, CHI, PITT, COL, TB all built on the promise of getting multiple top 2 picks. This is not a given any longer. Also, LA was built through some great trades as well such as Carter and Gaborik. I mean how the hell are you seriously going to sit here and say FLORIDA was not built on the Tkatchuk trade. That core SUCKED and had less playoff success than the Barzal, Sorokin, Dobson core that you seemingly despise.

Cute that you continue to feel as if I am defending trading first round picks, not dealing guys like Nelson, etc.

This will be the last time I respond to these posts from you until you can give me one example of a team going through a multi year rebuild in the current draft era.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I get the sense that you’re in the contingent that on some level takes offense at anyone that has a critical eye towards our GM or any of the veteran players.

Don’t get me wrong. I think Brock Nelson is a talented player, but it’s quite likely that we’ve seen the best of his play and he’ll be a depreciating asset going forward. Are we a better team this year and next year without him? Probably so but frankly I don’t think we are in a Cup contending position to benefit from having him on the squad in the near term. If we let the other scenario play out, we get valuable assets in a trade for him, get younger and don’t have to deal with a high veteran AAV deal that we might regret in 2 to 4 years.

Long story short. IMO he needs to be dealt before the trade deadline. That’s especially important for a team that is light on younger NHL players, prospects and draft capital.

Well, not everyone has keen senses. I'm the one who started a thread just before last season suggesting Brock Nelson could be an option to move at the trade deadline for an excellent haul if the team is not in a playoff spot. I'm still not opposed to trading him. I'm not sure where the jump from his performance at Four Nations leads to their being some offense taken or wanting Brock Nelson to be forever an Islander. You know they are not connected, correct?

His play simply matched my expectations during Four Nations, that's it. I noticed many people criticizing his performance and was just a bit baffled on why their expectations where high. I'm in the boat where if Brock Nelson doesn't want to sign a team friendly deal that puts him in the area where he can age into a 3C or even a wing, I'm not opposed to keeping him. If he wants to be paid as a 2c and long term, yes, definitely trade him.

Not sure it is the player people like or that we’ve watched these other guys for years and it isn’t working. He can at least move the puck up the ice and give us a chance at some offense.

Two years in a row these guys have gone down and replacements from the garbage heap have been better. Last thing I want to watch is Pulock and his cement skates..

Better? Hardly. Bad in a different area; correct.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Martin to "IR", Barzal to LTIR. Dobson probably plays tomorrow

 

[SI90]

Say what you want about Martin, but the guy is a soldier.

 

[Zeeker]

Say what you want about Martin, but the guy is a soldier.

I don’t think anyone here has ever thought or said otherwise.

 

[Chockey22]

Your paragraphs here are meaningless. Period. LA, CHI, PITT, COL, TB all built on the promise of getting multiple top 2 picks. This is not a given any longer. Also, LA was built through some great trades as well such as Carter and Gaborik. I mean how the hell are you seriously going to sit here and say FLORIDA was not built on the Tkatchuk trade. That core SUCKED and had less playoff success than the Barzal, Sorokin, Dobson core that you seemingly despise.

Cute that you continue to feel as if I am defending trading first round picks, not dealing guys like Nelson, etc.

This will be the last time I respond to these posts from you until you can give me one example of a team going through a multi year rebuild in the current draft era.

At the risk of wading into someone else’s quarrel, I would say that it’s only been 10 drafts since the 2015 changes; and if we consider the most recent four as too soon to judge the impact of a committed rebuild, there’s only 6 drafts to judge on, which is not nearly enough to draw any strong conclusions. Of the teams who have committed to a rebuild since 2015, both Edmonton and Toronto look like contenders this year. The jury is still out on New Jersey, and things don’t look great for NYR and Buffalo. Detroit, Chicago, Anaheim, and San Jose are more recent rebuilders so we’ll see how those go.
I agree with your premise that complete tear downs and rebuilds are less certain propositions under the new system, and they were never a guarantee before. Having said that, it also seems clear that teams need top tier talent you find at the top of the draft to win the Cup. So, you either draft it, or trade for it.

 

[SI90]

I don’t think anyone here has ever thought or said otherwise.

Im talking about people and he was brought back and signed. His role is obvious. Hes an islander lifer and so respected in the room. As the 14th forward for vet minimum that’s fine by me.

 

[periferal]

Say what you want about Martin, but the guy is a soldier.

Should be kept with the franchise and given a front office job whenever he officially retires. If Eric Cairns is here...Matt Martin absolutely should be.

 

[Glory Days]

Today’s bullshit rumor - we trade Dobson within the division to a team with no need for an RHD

I concur likely total bs but then I get this awful feeling Lou is considering taking Timo Meier in the deal.

I know an Island for you Elias

EP desperately needs a change of scenery. A nice quiet place like Long Island could be what he needs.

 

[Throttle]

At the risk of wading into someone else’s quarrel, I would say that it’s only been 10 drafts since the 2015 changes; and if we consider the most recent four as too soon to judge the impact of a committed rebuild, there’s only 6 drafts to judge on, which is not nearly enough to draw any strong conclusions. Of the teams who have committed to a rebuild since 2015, both Edmonton and Toronto look like contenders this year. The jury is still out on New Jersey, and things don’t look great for NYR and Buffalo. Detroit, Chicago, Anaheim, and San Jose are more recent rebuilders so we’ll see how those go.
I agree with your premise that complete tear downs and rebuilds are less certain propositions under the new system, and they were never a guarantee before. Having said that, it also seems clear that teams need top tier talent you find at the top of the draft to win the Cup. So, you either draft it, or trade for it.

The only teams that have undergone a self imposed rebuild (be bad, get top picks, stink, sell off everything, etc.) with stable ownership in place during the years preceding the rebuild are Anaheim, Detroit, and San Jose.

Of the three, SJ is the only one that got the 1st overall and has what looks like a cornerstone player (not generational, tbd on franchise).

 

[Throttle]

I concur likely total bs but then I get this awful feeling Lou is considering taking Timo Meier in the deal.


EP desperately needs a change of scenery. A nice quiet place like Long Island could be what he needs.

Time to buy. Isles need to change their core.

Horvat knows what’s up, good, bad, or indifferent.

 

[JRD76]

I concur likely total bs but then I get this awful feeling Lou is considering taking Timo Meier in the deal.


EP desperately needs a change of scenery. A nice quiet place like Long Island could be what he needs.

Would be funny if Lou does do a move to bring in EP and then signs Boeser in free agency.

 

[SI90]

Should be kept with the franchise and given a front office job whenever he officially retires. If Eric Cairns is here...Matt Martin absolutely should be.

“Like Button”

 

[impaaaaaact]

Should be kept with the franchise and given a front office job whenever he officially retires. If Eric Cairns is here...Matt Martin absolutely should be.

"Like Button"

 

[Big L]

I know an Island for you Elias

I thought that was hilarious

Say what you want about Martin, but the guy is a soldier.

That confirms what I said that Lou made the wrong call, should have brought back Clutter, not Martin.

 

[Taswell]

I thought that was hilarious

That confirms what I said that Lou made the wrong call, should have brought back Clutter, not Martin.

Except Clutter has said he can’t go at the moment, he still doesn’t have feeling in his hand.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Your paragraphs here are meaningless. Period. LA, CHI, PITT, COL, TB all built on the promise of getting multiple top 2 picks. This is not a given any longer. Also, LA was built through some great trades as well such as Carter and Gaborik. I mean how the hell are you seriously going to sit here and say FLORIDA was not built on the Tkatchuk trade. That core SUCKED and had less playoff success than the Barzal, Sorokin, Dobson core that you seemingly despise.

I see I might be adding fuel to the flame but the truth of the matter is, every team to have won 2 or more cups in the past 15 years has had a self-drafted #1 star center, another self-drafted star forward, a self-drafted star Dman, and in most cases, a self-drafted SC-winning goalie, at least for one of the Cups.

Sticking with the importance of the self-drafted star forwards and Dman, one-Cup winners Capitals, Avelanche, and Panthers (granted Huberdeau was swapped for Tkachuk first) have certainly fit that bill as well.

The special exceptions seem to have been Vegas and St. Louis.

All certainly added key components from the outside along the way. That can't be denied. Certainly not.

But within the industry, it is more or less understood that the blueprint for winning multiple Cups in the modern era requires a minimum of 2 self-drafted impact/star forwards (one being a center) and a self-drafted #1 Dman.

Again, the multicup winners also each had a self-drafted starting goalie, at least for one of their cups.

***
Many teams have been trying to emulate this blueprint and have fallen short. There can only be one winner. But the teams that have multiple cups have gone exactly this route.

Without exception.

 

[Isles72]

I thought that was hilarious

That confirms what I said that Lou made the wrong call, should have brought back Clutter, not Martin.

theres always next season

 

[Arsenalogist24]

 

[duster19]

Well, not everyone has keen senses. I'm the one who started a thread just before last season suggesting Brock Nelson could be an option to move at the trade deadline for an excellent haul if the team is not in a playoff spot. I'm still not opposed to trading him. I'm not sure where the jump from his performance at Four Nations leads to their being some offense taken or wanting Brock Nelson to be forever an Islander. You know they are not connected, correct?

His play simply matched my expectations during Four Nations, that's it. I noticed many people criticizing his performance and was just a bit baffled on why their expectations where high. I'm in the boat where if Brock Nelson doesn't want to sign a team friendly deal that puts him in the area where he can age into a 3C or even a wing, I'm not opposed to keeping him. If he wants to be paid as a 2c and long term, yes, definitely trade him.


Better? Hardly. Bad in a different area; correct.

Deangelo has been our best a D since we picked him up. Reilly was one of our best last year. So ya… these guys are playing better.

Mayfield Pulock Pelech Romanov. To much of the same thing. Roy wants mobile d who can move the puck. If we sell I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mayfield go. Pulock will be very difficult to move…

 

[MJF]

Say what you want about Martin, but the guy is a soldier.

I say thanks for your service Matt, it's time.

With 25 games left in the season I don't think he's going to get to 1,000 NHL games. Of course Lou could give him a 1-year contract extension and kick this can down the road too.