Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

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[Mike C]

I think the biggest thing that Trotz fumbled the bad with last season was that when he went to youngsters like Aho and Bellows, he didn’t give them enough time to get comfortable. I wonder if Lou noticed that as well.

It’s different when you’ve already had your break in to the league and have been relegated to a depth player (to be juggled in and out of the lineup), but when you’re a prospect and only get 3-8 games at a time it’s hard to build momentum.


Which is fine IMO because NYI has depth up the wazoo and prospects knocking at the door.

In fairness to Barry, he was up against the 8 ball to make the playoffs and he didn't trust Aho and his abysmal play in front of his own net, nor should he have

 

[Mike C]

Honest question, do you think that Matt Martin's spot is secure? Maybe it is,I know what he has meant, and believe he might have been a bit banged up last year, but he did not look good last year. We owe Trotz a ton for what he did here but one of the knocks is that he did not play the kids. Chara and Greene are gone, wondering if they are looking to inject a bit of youth on both D and O. Martin makes $1.5M so assuming he would pass through waivers, most of his salary would be buried if he went down. Not saying it would happen, I am just speculating on possibilities. Not much else to talk about until training camp starts. .


I do agree that the 14 we have are the most likely, I am just hoping that someone like Raty shines and makes it at least a tough decision, even if winds up starting in Bridgeport. Would have loved them to bring someone in on a PTO to at least push any of our forwards but not going to happen it seems. Also you never know when an injury hits, hoping we stay healthy but you never know.

Matt Martin is as finished as Willie Mays was tripping all over himself in CF in the '73 World Series and Joe Namath stumbling over his own feet when he embarrassed himself in the process of getting benched by the Rams in '77


Sports is a what have you done for me lately business. (See Barry Trotz) Give Martin a coaching gig, public relations post, put him in the broadcast booth, let him call his shot. Just keep him off the ice!

 

[Mike C]

I still cannot get over that Calgary lost their best/franchise player, and had a better offseason than most teams (including the Isles).

They should've never let Gaudreau get to the trade deadline unsigned or untraded, but once that ship sailed and he left they couldn't have handled the next part much better.

Exceptionally insightful thoughts. Agree 100 percent!

 

[seafoam]

In fairness to Barry, he was up against the 8 ball to make the playoffs and he didn't trust Aho and his abysmal play in front of his own net, nor should he have

In fairness to Barry, he was up against the 8 ball to make the playoffs and he didn't trust Aho and his abysmal play in front of his own net, nor should he have

But NYI was out of it so early, he has nothing to lose dressing Aho/Salo for 20+ games straight. Yet he did not do that…

 

[seafoam]

I still cannot get over that Calgary lost their best/franchise player, and had a better offseason than most teams (including the Isles).

They should've never let Gaudreau get to the trade deadline unsigned or untraded, but once that ship sailed and he left they couldn't have handled the next part much better.

They ‘recovered’ from a bad offseason but that doesn’t necessarily make them better long term.

Sometimes (especially in UFA), it’s better to do nothing than something. It may not feel like it right now, but long term it very well could.

 

[gordie43]

They ‘recovered’ from a bad offseason but that doesn’t necessarily make them better long term.

Sometimes (especially in UFA), it’s better to do nothing than something. It may not feel like it right now, but long term it very well could.

I agree hard to move Gaudreau when your team looked poised to make a run for the Stanley Cup.

 

[Mike C]

But NYI was out of it so early, he has nothing to lose dressing Aho/Salo for 20+ games straight. Yet he did not do that…

I think from reading his quotes and those of the players, they felt they had a glimmer of hope probably more than was realistic. It was upstream no doubt but I don't think THEY felt they were out of it as early as some of us may have

Generally speaking, your point is well taken though!

 

[BelovedIsles]

Has Lambert been interviewed? Interested to see how he frames things, his depth, and what his plans are. Trotz was always a thorough, informative listen.

 

[danteipp]

It should have been toungue 'n cheek.

I mean, let's be honest, the team already has the 14 forwards it's allowed to have on the Island at any one time. The roster is set. There's no more space. The contracts have stipulated that.

The guys really battling for their spot in the line-up are Wahlstrom and Bellows, not other prospects. None of Holmstrom or Raty, and especially not a new pro like Dufour are anywhere close to being on this team out of camp.

And if they get called up in the course of the season is a matter that all depends on who'd be hurt. If it's lower line guys, then the team will be calling up guys like Koivula and Andreoff, not our prospects who need the precious ice time in all situations. Heck, even Fasching may get a look on the wing here before a Raty or Holmstrom are on the Island.

That's just the way we're built.

What we can expect is that when Parise's contract runs out and then Bailey's a year after that, that these guys will be replaced internally.

I hope not, I don't want to see Andreoff with the Islanders, at the NHL level, ever again.

Just leave him right in Bridgeport, where he can do the most good with the kids, and the least damage to the Isles on the scoreboard.

 

[SI]

They ‘recovered’ from a bad offseason but that doesn’t necessarily make them better long term.

Sometimes (especially in UFA), it’s better to do nothing than something. It may not feel like it right now, but long term it very well could.

If they are able to sign Weegar long term then it is a BIG WIN. Kadri signing may hurt them in a couple of seasons but by then cap goes up Lucic contract is gone and they let Zadorpv walk with young D to replace them.

I agree hard to move Gaudreau when your team looked poised to make a run for the Stanley Cup.

Absolutely agree - Flames could not have moved Gaudreau as they looked prime to advance and go far in the playoffs.

 

[SI]

YOur points are all fair. And for me, it's really about what I think Lou is going to do this season And the path he is going down with respect to his roster and not having competition for a couple of spots in the lineup is flat-out wrong.

Lou should have cut bait on Beauvillier last February at the TDL, Bellows does not skate well enough to get to spots to use his shot and I doubt power skating lessons will make him any better than a 3rd liner. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

Big supporter of Lou, but I absolutely agree with the bold. Especially, on the blue line Lou needed to see more than just adding Cholowski.

By not signing Milano and his comments about he wouldn’t win a job is just silly - handing everyone there spots. Even downplaying the kids.

I get Lou is playing the faith card in this group, but when injuries come it will expose the lack of depth the team has.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Honest question, do you think that Matt Martin's spot is secure? Maybe it is,I know what he has meant, and believe he might have been a bit banged up last year, but he did not look good last year.

I think Martin heads into the season as the LW on the identity line and first if and when he's playing like last season, will we see his minutes diminish. It's still his job. It can be lost, but first in the season. He's also the guy who is most likely to get (a lot of?) rest during the season.

But let's not assume that what we saw last season was the guy he now is. He apparently played with an injury all season long that was operated on this summer. Dunno what that's going to mean. Dunno why they kept playing him altough he was injured.

But when he does sit, I fully expect Johnston to be the guy playing for him. They're the interchangeables in that role.

We have 14 forwards and the 4th line consists of 4 of them. The rest have to come into question for the top three lines. At least until two or more of the liners are out. First then do I see a Parise or Bellows or other slumping forward, much less a call-up like Koivula or Andreoff, getting minutes on that line.

That's all what I think is highly likely, whether fans like or agree with it or not.

We owe Trotz a ton for what he did here but one of the knocks is that he did not play the kids. Chara and Greene are gone, wondering if they are looking to inject a bit of youth on both D and O.

On D, definitely. No doubt about it. And Lou has talked about this recently.

The BIG on-ice change is going from Chara and Greene to Romanov and one of Aho/Cholowski/Hutton/Salo, although I'm reltively 1000% certain that they want to start things off with a lefty next to Mayfield.

That knock on Trotz is just what we fans interpret and a few writers with no direct line to anyone in management furthered and fostered. As someone who has been involved in coaching everything from pee-wees to members of the Olympic team (well, in women's hockey at least), I saw a guy like Wahlstrom last year and constantly noticed all the weaknesses and shortages and lackings. I'd say that Trotz was sometimes "too generous" with his ice time, likely with pressure from the outside and too many vets not living up to their absilities.

And I agree that there is a certain kind of young player who, if you just force feed him with ice time no matter what the circumstances, you're doing neither him nor the team any favors. And for me, Wahlstrom is one such kid. The flopping around on his skates and that oh so cherished "one move too many" that a number of talented players have embedded in their game drives a coach - and teammates - nuts. Much moreso than fans who aren't behind the scenes.

Martin makes $1.5M so assuming he would pass through waivers, most of his salary would be buried if he went down. Not saying it would happen, I am just speculating on possibilities. Not much else to talk about until training camp starts.

Lou, of all GMs, is not doing this. That would be an absolute slap in the face of a well-respected veteran.

I do agree that the 14 we have are the most likely, I am just hoping that someone like Raty shines and makes it at least a tough decision, even if winds up starting in Bridgeport.

Don't be surprised if we see fluff pieces by the various writers during camp alluding to how impressive this, this, or that youngster is. There's not much going on this year, so they have to write about something.

But my advice is to take everything with a grain of salt. The group of forwards is, save for injuries, set. This group is getting the first 15-30 games to bounce back from last season.

Would have loved them to bring someone in on a PTO to at least push any of our forwards but not going to happen it seems. Also you never know when an injury hits, hoping we stay healthy but you never know.

No PTOs. Lou reiterated this yesterday.

Again, he's got a new coach who has to figure out how to get more out of Barzal and Beau while finding out who the hell Wahlstrom and Bellows are going to be.

Adding some PTO for a position that isn't even open is not going to help out in this endeavor. It only complicates things and prevents the new coaching staff from instituting the systems and getting a look at the guys already in the system.

That stuff needs to be taken into consideration by fans because that's what camps are about these days.

Long since past are the days where camps were about getting fit and earning jobs. Those days are over.

 

[crasherino]

Sounds like Lou wants to see his head coach prioritize more skating and offense from the back end. He went out of his way to compliment Aho who in my opinion didn’t really warrant such compliments, buy may able to provide value if given a more regular role, I suppose.

I'm skeptical that Aho is anything more than a 7th/8th Dman but if he wins the spot over Salo, I'm interested in seeing what he can contribute with an otherwise stable/solid D corp. I've always been in favor of the Ying/Yang D-pairings. A lefty and righty and an offensive minded Dman together with a more stay at home type player. A 3rd pairing of Aho/Mayfield checks both boxes. If Aho plays somewhat sheltered minutes and is allowed to focus on his strong suits, maybe he'll thrive?

Still hoping that Salo takes the bull by the horns and wins that spot, but if he doesn't show the CS he belongs, it won't be because he hasn't had the chance. The spot is open and its his time to step up. Regardless of what I think about Aho, if the team thinks that he's still a better option than Salo, they obviously know more about them than I do and its probably a function of us hoping that Salo is better than he actually is. Just because Toews was in a similar position as Salo and ultimately thrived, doesn't automatically mean that Salo will. We hope he will, but hope isn't a terrific strategy. He still has to show he belongs.

 

[Mike C]

I'm skeptical that Aho is anything more than a 7th/8th Dman but if he wins the spot over Salo, I'm interested in seeing what he can contribute with an otherwise stable/solid D corp. I've always been in favor of the Ying/Yang D-pairings. A lefty and righty and an offensive minded Dman together with a more stay at home type player. A 3rd pairing of Aho/Mayfield checks both boxes. If Aho plays somewhat sheltered minutes and is allowed to focus on his strong suits, maybe he'll thrive?

Still hoping that Salo takes the bull by the horns and wins that spot, but if he doesn't show the CS he belongs, it won't be because he hasn't had the chance. The spot is open and its his time to step up. Regardless of what I think about Aho, if the team thinks that he's still a better option than Salo, they obviously know more about them than I do and its probably a function of us hoping that Salo is better than he actually is. Just because Toews was in a similar position as Salo and ultimately thrived, doesn't automatically mean that Salo will. We hope he will, but hope isn't a terrific strategy. He still has to show he belongs.

GREAT post!!

 

[leeroggy]

Thanks for posting that. I think Lou may have talked about Aho because the reporter mentioned Salo and Hutton in the question and omitted Aho, so Lou was just throwing him into the mix for 6/7. My guess, anyway.

I think that one reason to question that is Aho was signed to a 2-year contract this summer. That likely insulates him from a waiver claim. Salo can also go down, but Cholowski has to pass waivers. If Aho can't win the job in camp, I could see both Salo and Cholowski stay and Aho might even be given the option to be released and go back to Europe, which would save more on the Cap.

Is he a regular at Rum Bottoms? Or wherever kids go for wet t-shirt contests these days?

 

[leeroggy]

But my advice is to take everything with a grain of salt. The group of forwards is, save for injuries, set. This group is getting the first 15-30 games to bounce back from last season.

And that is when it becomes really interesting, because a poor start likely means the potential trade pieces become even less desirable to another team.

One thing I pointed out over the summer is that STATISTICALLY, we actually scored more goals per game last year than in the previous year's Final Four run, while the defense gave up a lot more than the previous year; wITH our goaltending, but with a mediocre defense. It was the flip side of being so conservative WITHIN the defensive zone. We spent more time in our zone because of Chara and Greene's inability to clear and transition passing failing. I would expect our first step to a loose puck will be helped greatly by the new defensemen, no matter which one wins the final slot.

But if we start slow, it likely will be either because Wally, Bellow and Beau are still not progressing, or the same issue with Palms, JGP, Bailey and the 4th line not generating enough offense. Then you have to admit it's time to change the parts out.

There is an expiration date here because of the age of the core offensively and it's put up or ship out time for them.

 

[leeroggy]

Both Chara and Subban announce their retirements this morning. Too bad, I was wondering them pairing on the 3rd pair for Arizona, it would be fun to watch.

 

[Mike C]

And that is when it becomes really interesting, because a poor start likely means the potential trade pieces become even less desirable to another team.

One thing I pointed out over the summer is that STATISTICALLY, we actually scored more goals per game last year than in the previous year's Final Four run, while the defense gave up a lot more than the previous year; wITH our goaltending, but with a mediocre defense. It was the flip side of being so conservative WITHIN the defensive zone. We spent more time in our zone because of Chara and Greene's inability to clear and transition passing failing. I would expect our first step to a loose puck will be helped greatly by the new defensemen, no matter which one wins the final slot.

But if we start slow, it likely will be either because Wally, Bellow and Beau are still not progressing, or the same issue with Palms, JGP, Bailey and the 4th line not generating enough offense. Then you have to admit it's time to change the parts out.

There is an expiration date here because of the age of the core offensively and it's put up or ship out time for them.

to add to your excellent post, i would suggest that sometimes it's not how many you score or give up in totality but WHEN those goals occur, such as giving one up immediately after scoring one, letting in a bad one at the end of periods or immediately after killing a penalty or scoring meaningless ones when the game is out of hand


i also am thinking that not taking some of the bad penalties, especially early in games will ease the strain on the D and goalies and give us more time 5 on 5 which will level the playing field from game to game so to speak

Both Chara and Subban announce their retirements this morning. Too bad, I was wondering them pairing on the 3rd pair for Arizona, it would be fun to watch.

also would have been fun to watch someone jack him up for jumping wahlstrom like a subway thug last season!

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I'm skeptical that Aho is anything more than a 7th/8th Dman but if he wins the spot over Salo, I'm interested in seeing what he can contribute with an otherwise stable/solid D corp. I've always been in favor of the Ying/Yang D-pairings. A lefty and righty and an offensive minded Dman together with a more stay at home type player. A 3rd pairing of Aho/Mayfield checks both boxes. If Aho plays somewhat sheltered minutes and is allowed to focus on his strong suits, maybe he'll thrive?

Still hoping that Salo takes the bull by the horns and wins that spot, but if he doesn't show the CS he belongs, it won't be because he hasn't had the chance. The spot is open and its his time to step up. Regardless of what I think about Aho, if the team thinks that he's still a better option than Salo, they obviously know more about them than I do and its probably a function of us hoping that Salo is better than he actually is. Just because Toews was in a similar position as Salo and ultimately thrived, doesn't automatically mean that Salo will. We hope he will, but hope isn't a terrific strategy. He still has to show he belongs.

Here's what's going to happen.

Cholowski and Aho will make the team out of camp. They'll likely both see time over the first 20 game or so.

Salo will be sent down for one primary reason, aside from (currently) being no better than the other two: he doesn't have to go through waivers.

Hutton will also go down to Bport and await a call-up whenever an RHD is injured for a prolongued period of time. He too must go through waivers, but he's on a 3-year deal, so the danger is very low that someone would claim him and that contract.

There you have it.

 

[duster19]

YOur points are all fair. And for me, it's really about what I think Lou is going to do this season And the path he is going down with respect to his roster and not having competition for a couple of spots in the lineup is flat-out wrong.

Lou should have cut bait on Beauvillier last February at the TDL, Bellows does not skate well enough to get to spots to use his shot and I doubt power skating lessons will make him any better than a 3rd liner. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

If Bellows plays, he needs PP time. He got none when he played. This is where he can produce. He’s not going to be a dominate 5v5 guy. Aho was another one. Very limited opportunity and it is one of his strengths.

One of Barry’s biggest failures was the PP. They just kept doing the same thing, with the same guys over and over and over again.

 

[doublechili]

Here's what's going to happen.

Cholowski and Aho will make the team out of camp. They'll likely both see time over the first 20 game or so.

Salo will be sent down for one primary reason, aside from (currently) being no better than the other two: he doesn't have to go through waivers.

Hutton will also go down to Bport and await a call-up whenever an RHD is injured for a prolongued period of time. He too must go through waivers, but he's on a 3-year deal, so the danger is very low that someone would claim him and that contract.

There you have it.

You may be right - we'll start getting reports out of camp soon enough and that will give us a better idea.

FWIW, Aho and Salo get their full salaries in the AHL. Hutton and Cholowski get knocked down to $275k and $200k respectively. That makes me think Salo and Aho are the favorites off the bat, but who knows? It makes sense for Salo to play since he's probably the #1 guy long term out of the group. So he wouldn't be the #7 (at worst he'd rotate with Aho). I know Hutton says he's been playing the left side, but I think Salo is a legit left side/right side guy.

 

[PK Cronin]

If Bellows plays, he needs PP time. He got none when he played. This is where he can produce. He’s not going to be a dominate 5v5 guy. Aho was another one. Very limited opportunity and it is one of his strengths.

One of Barry’s biggest failures was the PP. They just kept doing the same thing, with the same guys over and over and over again.

Maybe someone with a better memory than me can confirm, but I don't think that's true. He tried lots of different guys on the PP last season, rotating their positions pretty regularly until it started to work. Nelson was never a fixture as a shooter on the PP but that's how it ended up. Aho was given PP time earlier on in his career (can't remember which season) but he isn't good defensively so when something broke down he wasn't able to recover.

 

[SRBisles]

Friedman on 32 thoughts says Isles and Barzal have begun discussing an extension.

 

[crasherino]

Here's what's going to happen.

Cholowski and Aho will make the team out of camp. They'll likely both see time over the first 20 game or so.

Salo will be sent down for one primary reason, aside from (currently) being no better than the other two: he doesn't have to go through waivers.

Hutton will also go down to Bport and await a call-up whenever an RHD is injured for a prolongued period of time. He too must go through waivers, but he's on a 3-year deal, so the danger is very low that someone would claim him and that contract.

There you have it.

You may be right and you are certainly correct that Salo has to take the job outright as he's the one with options remaining. But, if Salo does show that he's the clear cut best option at #6 Dman, I don't think Cholowski potentially being claimed will get in the way of that. At that point, perhaps we use IR creatively to retain everyone.

But I fear you are correct.....in that Salo isn't really any better than the other options - as much as we may want it to be different.