Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[NC 1972]

Most of last year's schedule was condensed and back loaded in the 2nd half too. Totally agree that style of play definitely played a part but also agree with those that say that style was the only way for Barry to keep the team competitive considering the various limitations of speed and in some cases declining/not good enough skill

Nelson said a bunch of times toward the end of last season that the team was mentally and physically worn down

As someone (probably several actually) have posted. Barry squeezed more lemonade out of them than anyone could.

Agreed, they need to play a defense first, counterpunch’s game. Goaltending and defense are their strength. My post have been calling for size , speed and skill for years I’m aware of their limitations but the coach made great lemonade as you point out and it looks like that’s the plan going forward. Our D should be better and hopefully some of the younger players will emerge and we’ll see a bit more flexibility in the game plan.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I think that there are many posters on here underestimating the power of strength and defense when it comes to the playoffs. Teams like Colorado and Tampa have an amount of talent that the Isles are not going to acquire unless they rebuild and hit on most of their picks for years.

 

[Mike C]

Agreed, they need to play a defense first, counterpunch’s game. Goaltending and defense are their strength. My post have been calling for size , speed and skill for years I’m aware of their limitations but the coach made great lemonade as you point out and it looks like that’s the plan going forward. Our D should be better and hopefully some of the younger players will emerge and we’ll see a bit more flexibility in the game plan.

With you 100 percent! I also think a big key will be Palmeiri. His effectiveness could be the tell tale when it comes to playoff or not.

 

[Mike C]

Ah that explains everything. Shots: 36%. Clear as a bell. What was I thinking

And who tf is Patrick Bacon and Corey Sznajder? What makes them experts on anything?

Soon we'll see scoreboards reading like 5.2 to 3.4.

Vince Lombardi said it best "what the hell is going on out there?"

 

[IslesNorway]

With you 100 percent! I also think a big key will be Palmeiri. His effectiveness could be the tell tale when it comes to playoff or not.

He needs to get his act together and go back to being a 25-30 goalscorer, and Pageau has to step up considerably as well. Also Parise needs to fire on all cylinders from the start instead catching fire when playoff hopes are gone.

The 4th line is in decline, and quite badly so if last season is anything to go by, so this team needs other players to step up and earn ice time at their expense.

 

[LeapOnOver]

But those stats show that he has flashes of brilliance that could drive offense, if only he had the right linemates.

Oops. Wrong guy.

Kind of a weird comment considering he was playing with Zegras.

 

[Sparksrus3]

With you 100 percent! I also think a big key will be Palmeiri. His effectiveness could be the tell tale when it comes to playoff or not.

A great season out of him may be 70 games , 25 + 25 , a strong forecheck and a thick beard for the June Finals .
Not sure if he can bring that anymore except for the beard

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I think that there are many posters on here underestimating the power of strength and defense when it comes to the playoffs. Teams like Colorado and Tampa have an amount of talent that the Isles are not going to acquire unless they rebuild and hit on most of their picks for years.

Two thoughts here...

As you mention, the assumed key to a full-out rebuild inclusive of high picks over multiple years is actually hitting on them. We already had a GM who didn't.

However, I'd also say that there are teams out there who continually draft well - heck, exceedingly well - despite almost never having a top 10 pick. St. Louis and Tampa come to mind right away. Washington certainly has over the years too. I mention this, because you do NOT have to do a rebuild in that "burn it all down and start over" manner in order to continually feed your team with upcoming stars and performers from within. You simply have to know how to draft well on a consistent basis.

So, I feel a bit dumbfounded at times when I see fans feeling this team as is constructed is nearing a point where it needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.

I don't wanna live through that. It ain't necessary.

Actually, the team currently has several of the keys necessary to be a highly competitive outfit for the next decade.

They'll just need to be getting a Raty and Dufour or two out of each and every draft along the way, regardless of where they're drafting from or how often.

Looking at everything from the 2nd round in 2018 to taking Raty in the 2nd round of 2021 would indicate that our hits are going to be too few and far apart. But there's still time for that summation to be altered.

In addition, this organization basically never adds from the outside. Hutton was like the last guy to get an ELC who we didn't draft.

So, what does that all mean for the direction this club should move in?

ASIDE:
I sure am curious to see what the Paliafito addition means to Lamoriello's signing ways as of this season, most particularly next spring. You don't add a guy like that unless you want him to do what he does best, namely bring in older European free agents each and every spring.

 

[MJF]

So, I feel a bit dumbfounded at times when I see fans feeling this team as is constructed is nearing a point where it needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.

I don't wanna live through that. It ain't necessary.

Until we can strip away and replace Martin, Clutterbuck, Bailey, Cizikas, Palmieri, and find a way to stop Lee, Nelson, Mayfield, and Pageau from getting any older, the core of this team is getting is getting more ineffective as time goes by, with contracts that will be hard to move.

You may not want to live through a rebuild again but it’s better than riding the mediocrity carousel with no way off it.

 

[Mike C]

A great season out of him may be 70 games , 25 + 25 , a strong forecheck and a thick beard for the June Finals .
Not sure if he can bring that anymore except for the beard

I'll sign up for those numbers right now.



How ya been man? Haven't seen you much lately. Status quo here! Kid made it through 1st week of H.S. in good shape!

 

[Islanders4Cups]

So, I feel a bit dumbfounded at times when I see fans feeling this team as is constructed is nearing a point where it needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.

I don't wanna live through that. It ain't necessary.

It is certainly an overreaction by many to having a bad season after coming so close (and it was very close) to winning a Stanley Cup.

Just about everything that could go wrong went wrong last season.

What hasn’t changed is this is a veteran hockey team who knows how to win and is loaded up pretty well in goal, defensively and has great leadership. They have to win now with this core group or change It.

Some key players are aging, but they ridded themselves of two of them.

I think they will be competitive come trade deadline, but IF they are not competitive and out of it again come February, you have to make some big changes here as in start to rebuild.

For now, it is wait and see and enjoy hockey.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Two thoughts here...

As you mention, the assumed key to a full-out rebuild inclusive of high picks over multiple years is actually hitting on them. We already had a GM who didn't.

However, I'd also say that there are teams out there who continually draft well - heck, exceedingly well - despite almost never having a top 10 pick. St. Louis and Tampa come to mind right away. Washington certainly has over the years too. I mention this, because you do NOT have to do a rebuild in that "burn it all down and start over" manner in order to continually feed your team with upcoming stars and performers from within. You simply have to know how to draft well on a consistent basis.

So, I feel a bit dumbfounded at times when I see fans feeling this team as is constructed is nearing a point where it needs to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up.

I don't wanna live through that. It ain't necessary.

Actually, the team currently has several of the keys necessary to be a highly competitive outfit for the next decade.

They'll just need to be getting a Raty and Dufour or two out of each and every draft along the way, regardless of where they're drafting from or how often.

Looking at everything from the 2nd round in 2018 to taking Raty in the 2nd round of 2021 would indicate that our hits are going to be too few and far apart. But there's still time for that summation to be altered.

In addition, this organization basically never adds from the outside. Hutton was like the last guy to get an ELC who we didn't draft.

So, what does that all mean for the direction this club should move in?

ASIDE:
I sure am curious to see what the Paliafito addition means to Lamoriello's signing ways as of this season, most particularly next spring. You don't add a guy like that unless you want him to do what he does best, namely bring in older European free agents each and every spring.

Chap while I agree that they don't need to tear it down to rebuild they need more Raty, Dufour, Dobson, etc type picks over the Holmstrom, Wilde, Ishakov type of picks and FAST. I am not convinced that Lou is going to be the guy to turn it around in the draft. I have not seen anything yet to convince me of that.

 

[IslesNorway]

Not only do they need to start drafting better, but they must also stop handing out long term deals they know will come to haunt them. More than half our team is untradeable because of their deals, not because of their skills.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Until we can strip away and replace Martin, Clutterbuck, Bailey, Cizikas, Palmieri, and find a way to stop Lee, Nelson, Mayfield, and Pageau from getting any older, the core of this team is getting is getting more ineffective as time goes by, with contracts that will be hard to move.

You may not want to live through a rebuild again but it’s better than riding the mediocrity carousel with no way off it.

I understand that very well. And yes, it's all something that must be constantly reviewed and dealt with every step of the way. It's one of the key things we'll be analyzing Lou about.

Every team will have to cap manage along the way, one way or the other. The Islanders certainly so in light of the contracts you've mentioned above.

I just thoroughly believe that you can restock on the fly and continually be competitive (as in shoot for the Cup competitive) without having to hit rock bottom, tearing everything up, and starting all over.

And that's what I think most people who talk about a "rebuild" are actually referring to.

Now, whether a front office is capable of changing on the fly and competing the whole time - that's another story. But it's doable and it should be the path a team takes over a full-fledged, start-over rebuild based on several years of continued top 5 picks.

Chap while I agree that they don't need to tear it down to rebuild they need more Raty, Dufour, Dobson, etc type picks over the Holmstrom, Wilde, Ishakov type of picks and FAST. I am not convinced that Lou is going to be the guy to turn it around in the draft. I have not seen anything yet to convince me of that.

In other words, they need to be drafting better - or put differently - placing a different emphasis on what type of guys they tend to select and how they come to that decision.

And the bolded is one of my biggest gripes with this team, although I've been very fine with the picks of Dufour, Raty, Berg, Liukas, Odelius, and George in the most recent drafts.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Not only do they need to start drafting better, but they must also stop handing out long term deals they know will come to haunt them. More than half our team is untradeable because of their deals, not because of their skills.

It looks like this team has contracts that could come back to haunt them.

But how many given out by Lamoriello have come back to haunt us?

One could say "Komarov and Hickey", but did those deals come back to haunt us?

Both just went away.

Ladd was a Snow-created issue. We can argue about Varlamov's contract, but when looking at the goaltending situation leaguewide - na, his deal is and was fine.

Are we upset with the deals that Lee, Nelson, Pageau, Pelech, and Pulock have received?

I know many are upset with the deals given to Martin and Cizikas, but will they haunt us?

Or do we have a GM who has shown the ability to make such deals just go away once the players are no longer able to live up to them?

Gonna be a point of debate whenever analyzing Lou's body of work. Sure. But which GM has a team full of steals? Who hasn't had to pay a guy or two or ten to keep his team in the hunt?

 

[Big L]

All teams have contracts that maybe are a year or two longer than they should be, and maybe a million or two more than they should be.

not just isles.

 

[PK Cronin]

All teams have contracts that maybe are a year or two longer than they should be, and maybe a million or two more than they should be.

not just isles.

If GMs only handed out contracts that were reasonable they'd have a team full of AHLers because none of the quality players would sign.

 

[Mike C]

All teams have contracts that maybe are a year or two longer than they should be, and maybe a million or two more than they should be.

not just isles.

wish i would have worked for a boss like that eh Big L?

 

[leeroggy]

wish i would have worked for a boss like that eh Big L?

If you find one, let me know

 

[MJF]

I just thoroughly believe that you can restock on the fly and continually be competitive (as in shoot for the Cup competitive) without having to hit rock bottom, tearing everything up, and starting all over.

A couple of points.

1. I don't think a rebuild/retool/whatever has to lead to another lost decade. However we must hit on first and second round picks. The Islanders have to draft their stars or trade for them. They still haven't shown they are able to sign them as free agents.

2. Restocking on the fly will actually result in us remaining mediocre because of the assets we currently have that we are willing to deal-a forward core made up of 2nd and 3rd liners (most with either $1M too much or 1 year too much on their contracts) and a defense group that has an excellent top 4 signed to team friendly deals that we should not trade. The return on those players will never be enough to keep us anything more than mediocre, in my opinion. Unless people here get over their fears of trading Mat Barzal or Brock Nelson, that is.

Reading between the lines, I believe Lou Lamoriello is content to "just get in" to the playoffs because he believes he has a team that can grind their way through the postseason. I want something more than that. I want a team that is always in contention for the Cup, not a "look out for the Islanders, they can be dangerous in the playoffs, if they make it in." That means being a 100+ point team in the standings EVERY YEAR.

 

[Mike C]

If you find one, let me know

haha. being retired, i work for my wife and kid.....not bad in the big picture!

 

[The Real JT]

A couple of points.

1. I don't think a rebuild/retool/whatever has to lead to another lost decade. However we must hit on first and second round picks. The Islanders have to draft their stars or trade for them. They still haven't shown they are able to sign them as free agents.

2. Restocking on the fly will actually result in us remaining mediocre because of the assets we currently have that we are willing to deal-a forward core made up of 2nd and 3rd liners (most with either $1M too much or 1 year too much on their contracts) and a defense group that has an excellent top 4 signed to team friendly deals that we should not trade. The return on those players will never be enough to keep us anything more than mediocre, in my opinion. Unless people here get over their fears of trading Mat Barzal or Brock Nelson, that is.

Reading between the lines, I believe Lou Lamoriello is content to "just get in" to the playoffs because he believes he has a team that can grind their way through the postseason. I want something more than that. I want a team that is always in contention for the Cup, not a "look out for the Islanders, they can be dangerous in the playoffs, if they make it in." That means being a 100+ point team in the standings EVERY YEAR.

Completely agree. I believe we are best off with a retool. We have too much talent on D and in goal for a rebuild.

With Lou at the helm neither retool or rebuild will happen. Maybe he will be proven right but if he misses the playoffs (not a crazy take) he will be gone at year’s end.

I’ve been in the minority regarding Nelson. We should’ve sold high on him assuming there was an oversized return on him. He’s an asset no doubt but we need a talent infusion on offense and you have to give to get.

I feel the stars must align to have this group contend for the Cup. Fast forward 1-2 years and many teams will be on the upswing. Status quo won’t get it done. (Not expecting many likes on this post.)

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

1. I don't think a rebuild/retool/whatever has to lead to another lost decade. However we must hit on first and second round picks. The Islanders have to draft their stars or trade for them. They still haven't shown they are able to sign them as free agents.

Lou can trade and sign. That he has proven (i.e. Pageau, Palmieri, and Romanov). But Lou basically doesn't sign UFAs. And certainly none that are impact players. I think Varlamov was the last "impact" player he signed as a UFA and well, we all know that this signing also had much to do with getting Sorokin over here.

But yes, the bolded is definitely correct.

2. Restocking on the fly will actually result in us remaining mediocre because of the assets we currently have that we are willing to deal-a forward core made up of 2nd and 3rd liners (most with either $1M too much or 1 year too much on their contracts) and a defense group that has an excellent top 4 signed to team friendly deals that we should not trade. The return on those players will never be enough to keep us anything more than mediocre, in my opinion. Unless people here get over their fears of trading Mat Barzal or Brock Nelson, that is.

Here's our biggest difference on this issue, because I don't think IT HAS TO. It certainly can if executed improperly. But it doesn't have to.

We can be successful retooling on the fly because in Sorokin, Dobson, and Barzal, our most important pillars towards a championship, are still U27 and the absolute spearhead of any championship run we'll be taking in the coming years. They can be so for quite some time moving forward. So, the non-marketability of many of our other players doesn't have to be a deadweight keeping us mired in mediocrity. We won't be dependent on them having to return items that keep us highly competitive.

Of course, the hope is that when the contracts of players like Parise, Bailey, and Clutterbuck run out, these guys like Raty, Dufour, and Holmstrom will be ready to step right in and perhaps even prove to be an overall upgrade by that time. Will Lou let it come to that?

Reading between the lines, I believe Lou Lamoriello is content to "just get in" to the playoffs because he believes he has a team that can grind their way through the postseason. I want something more than that. I want a team that is always in contention for the Cup, not a "look out for the Islanders, they can be dangerous in the playoffs, if they make it in." That means being a 100+ point team in the standings EVERY YEAR.

The tough thing about this is only one of 31 teams wins the Cup every year and few others find themselves even making the conference finals multiple years in a row.

I definitely agree though that this team has to be ready to add from within and that even if there aren't many high draft picks, the drafting has got to be solid and a greater emphasis on finding other hidden gems out there via other avenues.

I just don't think that getting what you want here is going to require a rebuild.

It may require another type of GM...

I've been vocal about this being a make or break it type of season for his tenure here.

 

[MJF]

Here's our biggest difference on this issue, because I don't think IT HAS TO. It certainly can if executed improperly. But it doesn't have to.

We can be successful retooling on the fly because in Sorokin, Dobson, and Barzal, our most important pillars towards a championship are still U27 and the absolute spearhead of any championship run we'll be taking in the coming years. They can be so for quite some time moving forward. So, the non-marketability of many of our other players doesn't have to be a deadweight keeping us mired in mediocrity. We won't be dependent on them having to return items that keep us highly competitive.

Of course, the hope is that when the contracts of players like Parise, Bailey, and Clutterbuck run out, these guys like Raty, Dufour, and Holmstrom will be ready to step right in and perhaps even prove to be an overall upgrade by that time.

Keeping our defensemen, Sorokin, and Barzal leaves us moving assets that I believe are not heavily in demand around the league. You say an on the fly job can work if done right? How are you going to “do it right” moving the remaining players around? I don’t see the return being there for them because of their ages, stats, contracts.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Keeping our defensemen, Sorokin, and Barzal leaves us moving assets that I believe are not heavily in demand around the league. You say an on the fly job can work if done right? How are you going to “do it right” moving the remaining players around? I don’t see the return being there for them because of their ages, stats, contracts.

Letting the contracts run out and then replacing these guys from within while the Romanovs, Bellows, and Wahlstroms of the world hopefully all grow into bigger roles of contribution.

The growth is organic.