Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[Glory Days]

Go back and listen to the clean out day interviews. Particularly Clutterbuck, Barzal, Pulock, Martin. It's not a team, it's a cult.

That is why this team needs a major player traded to shake up the culture. Letting Martin and Clutter walk is only a start.

 

[Nassau Revisited]

If you use a first rounder on a defenseman and get back a top 4, you got value. Get back top 2 picking in the top 10, you got expected value. Top 5, is top 1/2 20min+ defensemen that’s a leader in some capacity.,

All Lou did with trading that pick was guarantee and accelerate the pick they had in an area of need.,The fuss over trading that pick is mind boggling.

Is anyone upset about the Romanov trade? That was great trade by Lou. Now the JGP trade and signing him to that contact is a different story.

 

[doublechili]

Re: Romanov

It’s hard to call him a core player but he’s a solid unspectacular #2LHD. He eats major minutes. Feel free to belittle the +/- stat all you want but he’s also the team’s clear leader in that metric over the last 2 years.

Lose him and be prepared to pay dearly for similarly skilled talent or wait endlessly for one of our current prospects who are nowhere near his level.

So I guess I’m saying he’s a core player after all.

Agreed. Also, factoring in lateral mobility, he might be the team's best all-around skater on D. Romanov was my favorite non-Isles player in the league before the trade, so maybe I'm biased, but if people accept him for what he is and don't expect a lot of offense, he's not part of the problem at all and should be a keeper.

 

[doublechili]

Leafs appear open to trading one of the "core 4". You've got to figure that does not mean Matthews or Nylander. Maybe Tavares, but he'd be tough to move and would likely only bring back another bad contract. So you kind of think, all things considered, that a Marner trade is a possibility.

"Shanahan has continuously backed the team's "Core 4" throughout his time in Toronto, but struck a different tone on Friday, noting the time for patience may be at an end. Captain John Tavares and winger Mitch Marner are both entering the final seasons of their contracts after Treliving extended both Auston Matthews and William Nylander this season.

"It has certainly become evident that we have to assess all of those things and assess if we have to do some very difficult things to make the team better," Shanahan said."

Shanahan takes blame for early playoff exits, all options are on the table for Toronto Maple Leafs | TSN

Toronto Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan took responsibility Friday for the team's continued failures in the postseason. Shanahan has continuously backed the team's "Core 4" throughout his time in Toronto, but struck a different tone on Friday, noting the time for patience may be at an end.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Skip To My Lou]

Leafs appear open to trading one of the "core 4". You've got to figure that does not mean Matthews or Nylander. Maybe Tavares, but he'd be tough to move and would likely only bring back another bad contract. So you kind of think, all things considered, that a Marner trade is a possibility.

"Shanahan has continuously backed the team's "Core 4" throughout his time in Toronto, but struck a different tone on Friday, noting the time for patience may be at an end. Captain John Tavares and winger Mitch Marner are both entering the final seasons of their contracts after Treliving extended both Auston Matthews and William Nylander this season.

"It has certainly become evident that we have to assess all of those things and assess if we have to do some very difficult things to make the team better," Shanahan said."

Shanahan takes blame for early playoff exits, all options are on the table for Toronto Maple Leafs | TSN

Toronto Maple Leafs president Brendan Shanahan took responsibility Friday for the team's continued failures in the postseason. Shanahan has continuously backed the team's "Core 4" throughout his time in Toronto, but struck a different tone on Friday, noting the time for patience may be at an end.

www.tsn.ca

Many may not agree with me, but knowing how tight Marner is with Martin, I'll re-sign Martin for one more year. Screw it.

 

[Osakahaus]

Re: Romanov

It’s hard to call him a core player but he’s a solid unspectacular #2LHD. He eats major minutes. Feel free to belittle the +/- stat all you want but he’s also the team’s clear leader in that metric over the last 2 years.

Lose him and be prepared to pay dearly for similarly skilled talent or wait endlessly for one of our current prospects who are nowhere near his level.

So I guess I’m saying he’s a core player after all.

He's a core player because he actually plays good hockey. Keep him. Those are the players you trade 1sts for. I'd rather trade for a Romanov or Palmieri every day of the week instead of waiting 5 years for another Simon Holmstrom who "might" be good in a few seasons.

 

[doublechili]

Many may not agree with me, but knowing how tight Marner is with Martin, I'll re-sign Martin for one more year. Screw it.

Ideally you give Martin a sweatsuit and a whistle like Boychuk, but if it takes Martin playing 7 minutes for 45 games to get an elite talent, yeah maybe. I'd give up Fasching or Gauthier for that.

 

[MJF]

That is why this team needs a major player traded to shake up the culture. Letting Martin and Clutter walk is only a start.

I think the only one who truly looked in the mirror and talked about his shortcomings was J-G Pageau. His interview was refreshing. Everyone else drank Lou’s Kool-Aid.

Or Lou drank the players’ Kool-Aid.

 

[The Real JT]

Anyone watching the remaining teams style of play has to understand that we are several skilled and fast players short of competing with them.

The reloading and running it back approach has run its course. While I’ll always be a fan of the Isles, if Lou does nothing in the off-season or even worse if he doubles down on this squad, then I’m going to take a sabbatical from investing my heart and soul in the franchise. Don’t cry for me.

 

[MJF]

Anyone watching the remaining teams style of play has to understand that we are several skilled and fast players short of competing with them.

The reloading and running it back approach has run its course. While I’ll always be a fan of the Isles, if Lou does nothing in the off-season or even worse if he doubles down on this squad, then I’m going to take a sabbatical from investing my heart and soul in the franchise. Don’t cry for me…

….India.

 

[beach]

Is anyone upset about the Romanov trade? That was great trade by Lou. Now the JGP trade and signing him to that contact is a different story.

At the time, that move was fine. Then the pandemic affected cap increases and JGP got hurt and hasn't been the same since.

 

[Osakahaus]

At the time, that move was fine. Then the pandemic affected cap increases and JGP got hurt and hasn't been the same since.

Kucherov breaking his arm 1000 times in both 2020 and 2021 has caused irreparable damage to his scoring abilities. It sucks because Pageau was a fan favorite from 2020-2022. Honestly its just the nature of decline for a player whos always been a bottom 6 dude.

To me, that trade will still be seen as "necessary" because without JGP, we dont get past the Caps or Flyers in 2020. Without him we dont get past the Penguins in 2021 either. Am I gonna cry spilled milk because the isles didn't have a first from 2020-2023? Nah. But what I am gonna do is hope that our later round picks actually make the show, which is getting likely given how hard a lot of them are working.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Got a lot of comments on Nelson, I'll say this:

Sign him to a three year deal. You're not replacing him in a trade nor free agency and there's no one in the system yet to replace. He doesn't play like Lee or Pageau where the body breaks down. Palmieri you can trade because it's a career year and you can maximize value there but Nelson if you get a Horvat like return I don't think you're improving the club today or tomorrow. Given the ages of Sorokin, Horvat, Barzal, Dobson and Romanov they are still going to go for it. This is where that retool comes in. You trade a Palmieri at 32 for assets, you then acquire player X and age 26 to get in line with this new window. Nelson, Bailey, Ebs, Martin, Lee, Pageau were all the same age. Move on from that age level and get in with the other but Nelson can stay because he's still producing.

 

[Osakahaus]

Got a lot of comments on Nelson, I'll say this:

Sign him to a three year deal. You're not replacing him in a trade nor free agency and there's no one in the system yet to replace. He doesn't play like Lee or Pageau where the body breaks down. Palmieri you can trade because it's a career year and you can maximize value there but Nelson if you get a Horvat like return I don't think you're improving the club today or tomorrow. Given the ages of Sorokin, Horvat, Barzal, Dobson and Romanov they are still going to go for it. This is where that retool comes in. You trade a Palmieri at 32 for assets, you then acquire player X and age 26 to get in line with this new window. Nelson, Bailey, Ebs, Martin, Lee, Pageau were all the same age. Move on from that age level and get in with the other but Nelson can stay because he's still producing.

Nelson's issue, to me, is that his 200ft game has declined as a result of wear and tear. I dont want to say he's useless, but the impact of Nelson has been gradually declining outside of goals. He really fell off after Roy was hired, and thats being entirely objective as well.

we need to start thinking about a future without him, Palmieri, Pageau, and maybe even Pelech/Pulock

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Nelson's issue, to me, is that his 200ft game has declined as a result of wear and tear. I dont want to say he's useless, but the impact of Nelson has been gradually declining outside of goals. He really fell off after Roy was hired, and thats being entirely objective as well.

we need to start thinking about a future without him, Palmieri, Pageau, and maybe even Pelech/Pulock

I'd move on from all those guys minus Nelson and Pulock. I think injuries caught up to Pelech and Pageau

 

[Lek]

Got a lot of comments on Nelson, I'll say this:

Sign him to a three year deal. You're not replacing him in a trade nor free agency and there's no one in the system yet to replace. He doesn't play like Lee or Pageau where the body breaks down. Palmieri you can trade because it's a career year and you can maximize value there but Nelson if you get a Horvat like return I don't think you're improving the club today or tomorrow. Given the ages of Sorokin, Horvat, Barzal, Dobson and Romanov they are still going to go for it. This is where that retool comes in. You trade a Palmieri at 32 for assets, you then acquire player X and age 26 to get in line with this new window. Nelson, Bailey, Ebs, Martin, Lee, Pageau were all the same age. Move on from that age level and get in with the other but Nelson can stay because he's still producing.

certainly sound.....but i think you get more back on Nelson and i like to think Palms brings more to the table overall and i do not see either as any advantage in so far as decline. Really is a tough call, but unless some one is giving it all away, i do not believe we can afford to move on from both at once.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

Marner talk was a few pages back too I believe but I'll throw my two cents in. Palms had 30 goals this year and was a huge reason why we made playoffs because it was a dual threat of 1st and 2nd line. I'd rather pony up for two strong pairs in the top 6 with a complimentary player. Give me Barzy-Horvat on one line and Marner-Nelson on the other. That's a huge dual threat up there with any other team in the league.

certainly sound.....but i think you get more back on Nelson and i like to think Palms brings more to the table overall and i do not see either as any advantage in so far as decline. Really is a tough call, but unless some one is giving it all away, i do not believe we can afford to move on from both at once.

I obviously agree with more back on Nelson but I think everyone would have an easier time replacing or improving on Palms but not the same for Nelson. I think the best center in free agency is Chandler Stephenson who I like but he's no Nelson. And I also want to jettison Pageau. All of a sudden the C depth gets weak.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

I have grand envisions of trading Palms, Pelech and Pageau to team XYZ with upgrades to LD2, LW1 and 2 but I think in the end we'll see us use our draft picks, Pageau gets traded and we do upgrade a position (RW?LW?LD?) and obviously the salary will offset there and it will be a positive reception. Then I also think we add two different bruisers in place of Clutter and Martin that will also be a net positive. But will it be enough?

 

[iggy]

I have grand envisions of trading Palms, Pelech and Pageau to team XYZ with upgrades to LD2, LW1 and 2 but I think in the end we'll see us use our draft picks, Pageau gets traded and we do upgrade a position (RW?LW?LD?) and obviously the salary will offset there and it will be a positive reception. Then I also think we add two different bruisers in place of Clutter and Martin that will also be a net positive. But will it be enough?

How vague. Get rid of 3 players and replace them with 3 different players. Then drop 2 of our 4th line guys and replace with 2 other 4th line guys.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

How vague. Get rid of 3 players and replace them with 3 different players.

3 better players! Younger, faster and cheaper.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Is anyone upset about the Romanov trade? That was great trade by Lou. Now the JGP trade and signing him to that contact is a different story.

I can honestly forgive the Pageau move. Aside from him not being the same since his injury COVID screwing with the cap really changed things. I cannot forgive going back into the season with Lee and Pageau though.

 

[PJGooch]

Got a lot of comments on Nelson, I'll say this:

Sign him to a three year deal. You're not replacing him in a trade nor free agency and there's no one in the system yet to replace. He doesn't play like Lee or Pageau where the body breaks down. Palmieri you can trade because it's a career year and you can maximize value there but Nelson if you get a Horvat like return I don't think you're improving the club today or tomorrow. Given the ages of Sorokin, Horvat, Barzal, Dobson and Romanov they are still going to go for it. This is where that retool comes in. You trade a Palmieri at 32 for assets, you then acquire player X and age 26 to get in line with this new window. Nelson, Bailey, Ebs, Martin, Lee, Pageau were all the same age. Move on from that age level and get in with the other but Nelson can stay because he's still producing.

I think a Palmieri trade is the most realistic "big" move that might happen this offseason. After that I wouldn't be shocked at some type of Pageau deal or a Romanov-esque 1st-round pick for young player swap.

As for all the other moves people here want to see -- Nelson, Pelech, Pulock, buy out Lee, etc. -- I think Lamoriello himself fills in on the 4th line before any of those deals have a chance at happening.

 

[Lek]

I think a Palmieri trade is the most realistic "big" move that might happen this offseason. After that I wouldn't be shocked at some type of Pageau deal or a Romanov-esque 1st-round pick for young player swap.

As for all the other moves people here want to see -- Nelson, Pelech, Pulock, buy out Lee, etc. -- I think Lamoriello himself fills in on the 4th line before any of those deals have a chance at happening.

Now that would be fun.

 

[Osakahaus]

I think a Palmieri trade is the most realistic "big" move that might happen this offseason. After that I wouldn't be shocked at some type of Pageau deal

trading a 30 goal scorer is a very bad move

 

[LeapOnOver]

Players that the islanders should go for are guys like DeBrusk, Duclair, Bjustad, Skjei, Roslovic, Stephenson or Kunin. They need depth tier guys. I would love Chandler Stephenson but no way vegas loses him. They gotta try to get those players who also bolster the blue line. come on isles, we gotta do something this offseason!

At least half those names will end up being Engvall level good in a matter of months and catch the ire of fans.