Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[MJF]

Core players would be the ones signed long-term or expected to sign long-term. Are guys like Mayfield and Engvall core players? No, but Lou decided to make them one.

I see core players as the ones who set the culture in the room. Usually those are the ones with the most tenure, wear the C and the As on their chests, and speak to the media most often.

On this team the core players are Martin, Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Nelson, Lee, Barzal, Pulock, Pelech.

 

[leeroggy]

It was not too long ago posters felt that Boeser was a lost cause and would be a waste to get dealt for. Not long ago that Paval Zacha would be a waste for the Bruins. Lou needs to take more swings on low risk high upside players like he did Gauthier this offseason. I still do not love that he was sent down when he clearly was not the worst player on the team.

Martin has to go. I would not mind Clutterbuck back but if he wants more than a league minimum deal for a year let him walk as well. The best fourth line this team can employ is Fasching, MacLean, and Gauthier next season. Cheap, fast, and hungry.

Yep, hard to get people to change their minds at times . . . I was a big 'Buy Low on Boeser' and if I had a dollar for each of the 'he sucks', 'can't skate', etc., comments here I'd be on the first Icon of the Seas cruise in a suite . . .

 

[leeroggy]

I am not sure there is not a GM we would not bitch about.

A GM? How about ANYTHING? Parking, food prices, train travel, 3rd uniforms . . . heck, how about Shannon, Butch and the radio guy? There, fixed it for you . . .

 

[beach]

Also, Brind'amour played 9 seasons for the Flyers, is in their team HOF, and the fans loved him.

I don't think he ever goes back to Philly. Too much family drama from that era.

I'm gonna be watching Kotkaniemi closely against the Rags. Seems to have fallen out of favor in CAR and still only 23 years old.

High pick with some talent.

CAR probably going to have to shed salary to re-sign some of their UFA/RFA's. Maybe he could be had.

He and Necas will be out the door this summer. And KK is overrated.

I sensed during the presser that Roy and Lams will work together to set the table for 24-25 . I'm not sure to what extent Lambert or Trotz were involved with offering 2 cents but things seem to be a little different here .

Yes. Rosner pointed this out as well.

 

[beach]

Oh I'm quite confident there is a plan. Problem is I'm also quite confident there's been a plan the last few offseasons...And those "plans" have led to these results.

I often wonder if a big section of the Isles fan base still has PTSD of having 2 of the worst GMs of the past 30 years in Milbury and snow, so now that they have an OK one they're making out to be better than he is.

You haven't read the Isles' revisionist history document? In it it clearly says that Snow was an excellent GM that was just hamstrung.

 

[Osakahaus]

He and Necas will be out the door this summer. And KK is overrated.


Yes. Rosner pointed this out as well.

Kotkaniemi is such a bad flop that I genuinely do not understand why the Canes not only offersheeted him, but gave him a petty contract. Such a dumb move just because you wanted to win social media likes.

 

[YearlyLottery]

This is how sad things are around here. We're using salary dumps because of the mess Lou got us into capwise as markers to test the market to trade another one of Lou's bad contracts.

And with respect I think you're missing the fact that Lou gave Pulock a no trade clause - So he goes to choose if he leaves and where he would go thus cutting his trade value to very minimal (if he has any at all given how long his contract runs).

But it was Lou who gave Pulock that contract with the NTC so I'd say the chances of "Loyal Lou" even wanting to trade him is slim.

And for the record it took two 2nds and a 3rd to get rid of Ladd (at least that contract wasn't his fault). Would have liked to have seen what those assets could have gotten us in a trade for an actual player to actually help the team.

Lou needs to stop trading for those 3-6M players and focus more on deals like the Horvat one. Over the past 2 years we got more out of Horvat, Parise, MacLean, Fasching, & Holmstrom, then we did from Pageau, Engvall, and Pelech (and just these 3 cost about 3 million more a year than those 5).

- Ladd and Bailey were both Snow signings though. The fact of the matter is that a Lou contract has not gotten us into deep issues yet. I won't blame him for losing Toews since I think if he could go and redo the Pageau contract knowing COVID will happen he would.

- I agree 100% with you that Lou needs to steer away from Palmieri and Pageau type deals (guys who will 100% have down years for a variety of reasons) and go towards the Romanov/Horvat deals.

- I know defending the Engvall contract is not big around here but that cap hit over the length of the deal he will be fine. Especially with Roy in charge now.

- The bottom line is changes at this point need to be made.

 

[doublechili]

Im pretty sure they can only do the bottom 6 and 1 defensive fix. The rest has to be executive tier fixes

Not sure what you mean by "executive tier fixes"? Ownership?

Just going by position, goal is set - maybe just think about a new goalie coach?

Defense: as I've been saying, the team needs an upgrade to a dynamic PMD on the second pair - problem is both Pelech and Pulock have NTCs of course. I could also see Lou thinking that the D will be okay with a full year of Reilly (assuming re-signed), a healthy Mayfield and a year of development for Bolduc. But I think that would be a mistake. Crazy thought: trade for a younger, cheaper offensive LHD to play with Pulock (granted, not easy to find) and move Pelech down to the third pair - and don't re-sign Reilly. In any case, let Aho walk and Bolduc is #7.

Forward: we talk about trading Nelson, but realistically his points would then need to be replaced and the team is offensively challenged as it is. Not saying "no", but it would require some boldness/creativity that may not be there. And signing a UFA to replace Nelson, or fill a hole on the wing, can't be counted on (because Islanders). Let Martin and Clutterbuck walk. Look into moving JGP and Palmieri (but again, Palms' points would need to be replaced). The top 6 needs to be upgraded. And the bottom 6 needs to be upgraded, including finding a 1st line wing (and hoping Holmstrom steps up is fine and it might happen, but ultimately it's just a "hope"). Lots to do at F....

 

[Lek]

I think you might be on to something. And let's say you're correct - That only about 20% of NHL GMs are above average.

That said should any team tolerate "average" just because it's hard to find a good GM. Is that where we're at around here in terms of standards?




So a human being who has been at the same job for 40+ years, and is now 81 years old, all of a sudden has to be "more creative than he's ever been." Hopefully you'll understand if I place money on the "things will go like they have before" side.

To point one, no...but do you change for the sake of change? Lou has done an overall solid job. who do you change him for that you can be 80% sure they will be better?

To two - I agree, odds are better that things will not change much. However, being an eternal pessimist has to suck. Hell, would make me stop watching this team and coming here. What is the point? Personally, prefer to think Lou can think out of his box and hopefully will, and be able to execute as the thought and the willingness is more times not enough.

Of course, there is a third....stop waiting for the GM to be changed and be pro-active. Start following a team with an excellent GM. Why wait?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

You haven't read the Isles' revisionist history document? In it it clearly says that Snow was an excellent GM that was just hamstrung.

Read it? He wrote it.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Yep, hard to get people to change their minds at times . . . I was a big 'Buy Low on Boeser' and if I had a dollar for each of the 'he sucks', 'can't skate', etc., comments here I'd be on the first Icon of the Seas cruise in a suite . . .

Look no further than everyone here debating bringing DeBrincat in this offseason like he would be a net negative for this team. Getting a star player is all fun and games until you have to pay them money or give up assets for them right? All of a sudden the isles players are worth the world when needing to make a trade.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Pelech and Pulock would get a decent amount on the open market. Pelech less than Pulock but that could switch back in another season.

 

[Osakahaus]

- Ladd and Bailey were both Snow signings though. The fact of the matter is that a Lou contract has not gotten us into deep issues yet. I won't blame him for losing Toews since I think if he could go and redo the Pageau contract knowing COVID will happen he would.

- I agree 100% with you that Lou needs to steer away from Palmieri and Pageau type deals (guys who will 100% have down years for a variety of reasons) and go towards the Romanov/Horvat deals.

- I know defending the Engvall contract is not big around here but that cap hit over the length of the deal he will be fine. Especially with Roy in charge now.

- The bottom line is changes at this point need to be made.

Palms contract>>>>Pageau one. Its been very good for the islanders and I feel like Palms is a legit 2nd line scorer now. Well worth the contract.

Engvall is honestly a very useful player, I hope he reaches 40-45 points next season. He needs to be more consistent but the caliber of player is there. 4th line must change but I think it comes both in house and from trades. Liam O'Brian also should be considered if Utah cant keep him, for whatever reason.

Not sure what you mean by "executive tier fixes"? Ownership?

Just going by position, goal is set - maybe just think about a new goalie coach?

Forward: we talk about trading Nelson, but realistically his points would then need to be replaced and the team is offensively challenged as it is. Not saying "no", but it would require some boldness/creativity that may not be there. And signing a UFA to replace Nelson, or fill a hole on the wing, can't be counted on (because Islanders). Let Martin and Clutterbuck walk. Look into moving JGP and Palmieri (but again, Palms' points would need to be replaced). The top 6 needs to be upgraded. And the bottom 6 needs to be upgraded, including finding a 1st line wing (and hoping Holmstrom steps up is fine and it might happen, but ultimately it's just a "hope"). Lots to do at F....

coaching wise is what I feel.

 

[periferal]

You haven't read the Isles' revisionist history document? In it it clearly says that Snow was an excellent GM that was just hamstrung.

Love this post. Hate that it's true.

I also love the paradox that, "Most of the semi-final team was built by snow." Yet in the same breath, "In Lou we trust."

The more and more we move forward the more it looks like snow and Lou (and perhaps the entire organization) are mostly lost without Trotz.

 

[periferal]

- Ladd and Bailey were both Snow signings though. The fact of the matter is that a Lou contract has not gotten us into deep issues yet. I won't blame him for losing Toews since I think if he could go and redo the Pageau contract knowing COVID will happen he would.

No one can honestly say that because...We don't know what deals Lou missed out on by not having enough cap space.

Cap space can be as much of a weapon in improving a team as draft picks. Any GM should never be cavalier with it even for a 2M player.

- I agree 100% with you that Lou needs to steer away from Palmieri and Pageau type deals (guys who will 100% have down years for a variety of reasons) and go towards the Romanov/Horvat deals.

100%.

- I know defending the Engvall contract is not big around here but that cap hit over the length of the deal he will be fine. Especially with Roy in charge now.

It's honestly so not fine. It's not just wasting 3M a year for 7 years...It's what we could've had for that 3M. I'm not even his biggest fan, but for example for the exact same price (on a 1 year deal) Lou could've signed Matt Duchene who just went 25-40-65 for Dallas.

- The bottom line is changes at this point need to be made.

Again 100% agree, but we disagree on the change. I mean honestly...You've got a GM whose philosophy has been the same for 40+ years. Now all of a sudden at 81 years old you think he's going to change? Not only would that be an ambitious belief at best, but I'd rather just find the GM who has the philosophy you need to become a Cup contender instead of hoping a person who's never changed, changes.

 

[periferal]

To point one, no...but do you change for the sake of change? Lou has done an overall solid job. who do you change him for that you can be 80% sure they will be better?

See and the way I see it is...Lou isn't the man for the job. Hard stop. Once you believe that then you should be making a change immediately - At minimum so he doesn't set the team back further.

To two - I agree, odds are better that things will not change much. However, being an eternal pessimist has to suck. Hell, would make me stop watching this team and coming here. What is the point? Personally, prefer to think Lou can think out of his box and hopefully will, and be able to execute as the thought and the willingness is more times not enough.

Not a pessimist my friend. incredibly passionate and opinionated. Look back over the past 30 years and tell me that any (objective) fan should've been optimistic other than about a 3 year period when Trotz was here.

Not that you'll do it but go back and check my posts the day that wang sold, or that UBS was green-lighted, or snow was fired. For the latter I literally think I took the time to "like" every single post in that thread. I was giddy beyond belief.

With Malkin running the show I think we actually have the best owner we've ever had so there is hope, but that doesn't mean you stick your head in the sand and just say everything he's doing is perfect. He's 100% entrusted hockey operations to ONE man who I believe isn't good enough and I believe needs changing to get us back to Cup contention. If you believe Lou can. Cool. That's one of the things these boards are for.

Of course, there is a third....stop waiting for the GM to be changed and be pro-active. Start following a team with an excellent GM. Why wait?

Not many things worse than a lack of loyalty. The Isles are carved in my soul. Wish I didn't care, but I do. And I care a lot. It's why I am so passionate and am dying to get the Cup we all deserve.

Thus standards should always be "Cup level" around here because we won't get there without them. So when I see Lou gumming up the cap with average/decent "3-6M" players I know the standard isn't high enough and thus the job isn't getting done. And I just don't feel like waiting another season, much less 5, sticking my head in the sand with uniformed optimism hoping Lou becomes something he's not.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I think everyone knows from all my posts that I’ve not been a Lou lover from the onset as GM. The basic point to my previous post was that any GM who thought that a returning squad from a previous years first round exit was going to yield a better result doesn’t see it the same as I and many other fans do.
Having not seen the press conference but knowing Roy from his character here in Montreal for years, I can only see him being involved on roster decisions as being a positive thing. I certainly prefer his style of coaching over the previous 2.

Yes, I got your point. There seems to be several factions on this board re: Lou. I was just suggesting to take a listen and decipher as you may. To me it sounds like Lou and Roy have every intention to improve this roster, if possible (it takes two to tango). He also emphasized that no personal relationships will take precedence over the betterment of the whole, that struck me.

 

[MJF]

Yes, I got your point. There seems to be several factions on this board re: Lou. I was just suggesting to take a listen and decipher as you may. To me it sounds like Lou and Roy have every intention to improve this roster, if possible (it takes two to tango). He also emphasized that no personal relationships will take precedence over the betterment of the whole, that struck me.

At this point Lou’s words are empty. He can hire the right coach or not, but at the end of the day I don’t trust Lou’s judgement anymore. Tume for Lou to go.

 

[BelovedIsles]

At this point Lou’s words are empty. He can hire the right coach or not, but at the end of the day I don’t trust Lou’s judgement anymore. Tume for Lou to go.

Roy's input encourages me; but yes, I do get the hollow feel from Lou's cliched rhetoric.

 

[seafoam]

Try and swap Nelson for Marco Rossi out of Minnesota.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

I haven't been, and based on the alleged renewal numbers, a lot of fans are doing the same.

This is probably why Lou spoke quickly and talked about both him and Roy addressing roster together. Lou also talked about younger players getting chances so you would assume a guy like Ishkahov is going to get the chance everyone clamored for. He kind of did give us a direction and a plan I thought.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

Not sure what you mean by "executive tier fixes"? Ownership?

Just going by position, goal is set - maybe just think about a new goalie coach?

Defense: as I've been saying, the team needs an upgrade to a dynamic PMD on the second pair - problem is both Pelech and Pulock have NTCs of course. I could also see Lou thinking that the D will be okay with a full year of Reilly (assuming re-signed), a healthy Mayfield and a year of development for Bolduc. But I think that would be a mistake. Crazy thought: trade for a younger, cheaper offensive LHD to play with Pulock (granted, not easy to find) and move Pelech down to the third pair - and don't re-sign Reilly. In any case, let Aho walk and Bolduc is #7.

Forward: we talk about trading Nelson, but realistically his points would then need to be replaced and the team is offensively challenged as it is. Not saying "no", but it would require some boldness/creativity that may not be there. And signing a UFA to replace Nelson, or fill a hole on the wing, can't be counted on (because Islanders). Let Martin and Clutterbuck walk. Look into moving JGP and Palmieri (but again, Palms' points would need to be replaced). The top 6 needs to be upgraded. And the bottom 6 needs to be upgraded, including finding a 1st line wing (and hoping Holmstrom steps up is fine and it might happen, but ultimately it's just a "hope"). Lots to do at F....

Tbh I’d leave the defense alone, sign Reilly and use whatever bullets you have to address forward issues. On D I’m personally a big George guy he is going to be an Andy Greene clone IMO, Warren was a good get he also will play in league and you have Odelius who some believe is our best prospect or at least guy with highest upside. The left side of D has some future I think.

 

[periferal]

For those out there even suggesting 11M/year Marner should be a trade target (not that it would ever happen for lots of reasons)...

 

[leeroggy]

For those out there even suggesting 11M/year Marner should be a trade target (not that it would ever happen for lots of reasons)...

Ahh
But Nylander is the soft one according to many here
He scores important goals. Period.

 

[Throttle]

Ahh
But Nylander is the soft one according to many here
He scores important goals. Period.

I think he was viewed as the 4th guy behind Mathew’s, JT, and Marner. He’s stepped up, no doubt. He’s definitely the number 2 guy behind Mathews now.

 

[SI]

Ahh
But Nylander is the soft one according to many here
He scores important goals. Period.

x.com

x.com

Trying to post the video on the link - but when u click on the link - Nylander just unacceptable.