Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[doublechili]

The 13th overall in a very good draft should have been used to grab a player, especially up front, with the potential to be an actual difference maker. Especially on a team that is STILL, six years after he was hired and lost JT, in dire need of skill up front. The reasoning at the time was that Romanov would help the team more than a kid who had no chance of making it. It's been two years and what have they done?

We'll have to see how Frank Nazar compares with Romanov and Isaiah George in the long run. And there's no guarantee a player at #13 in that draft was going to be a difference maker. Look at what some of the team's past #5 overall forwards have done. Unless you consider Nino, Strome and MDC "difference makers"? I'd say pretty confidently that Romanov will have a better NHL career than any of those 3 guys. Heck, there's a pretty decent chance that Isaiah George (the throw-in pick) will be better than MDC at least.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

wonder what the variable there was (trotz)?

What about year 4? Pin the blame solely on Lou even through Trotz was still coach? Just so I know I'm doing this right, we give Trotz credit for years 1-3. And blame Lou for year 4 (not Trotz). And of course blame Lou for years 5 and 6.

We'll have to see how Frank Nazar compares with Romanov and Isaiah George in the long run. And there's no guarantee a player at #13 in that draft was going to be a difference maker. Look at what some of the team's past #5 overall forwards have done. Unless you consider Nino, Strome and MDC "difference makers"? I'd say pretty confidently that Romanov will have a better NHL career than any of those 3 guys. Heck, there's a pretty decent chance that Isaiah George (the throw-in pick) will be better than MDC at least.

The only difference makers are picks and prospects. You should know that by now.

 

[Zeeker]

We’ve won 30 of 71 games this year and still getting “we’re not winning the Cup anyway” banter. The bar has sunk through the floor and is hurtling towards the earth’s core.

 

[PK Cronin]

We’ve won 30 of 71 games this year and still getting “we’re not winning the Cup anyway” banter. The bar has sunk through the floor and is hurtling towards the earth’s core.

What exactly do you mean?

Nobody is happy with what is currently happening.

 

[Zeeker]

What exactly do you mean?

Nobody is happy with what is currently happening.

I think a vocal minority are fine duking it out for the WC2 spot. Hence the “we’re not winning the Cup anyway” jokes on the previous page

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

I read, years ago, that 60% of the population is sub-Kegan 4, and since then, the internets have done nothing to make me think otherwise.

 

[Strickland]

We'll have to see how Frank Nazar compares with Romanov and Isaiah George in the long run. And there's no guarantee a player at #13 in that draft was going to be a difference maker. Look at what some of the team's past #5 overall forwards have done. Unless you consider Nino, Strome and MDC "difference makers"? I'd say pretty confidently that Romanov will have a better NHL career than any of those 3 guys. Heck, there's a pretty decent chance that Isaiah George (the throw-in pick) will be better than MDC at least.

You really can't say "well there's a chance the first round pick in the teens can bust" when the core of this team is built upon guys drafted right around then. Barzal and Dobson are Isles because Snow saw the value in extra picks.

That's not to say the draft is fool proof. But if you walk out of a draft with Alex Romanov when you're picking 13th, you've failed.

And to further that point, does anyone think they can get the 13th overall back for Romanov, now?

 

[Strickland]

What about year 4? Pin the blame solely on Lou even through Trotz was still coach? Just so I know I'm doing this right, we give Trotz credit for years 1-3. And blame Lou for year 4 (not Trotz). And of course blame Lou for years 5 and 6.


The only difference makers are picks and prospects. You should know that by now.

You mean the year where they made the playoffs because the Pens choked a game against the worst team in the league? Where Sorokin dragged this team into the playoffs? You want me to credit Lou? Is the bar that low here? Man, if that's the case then Steve Stirling was a pretty good coach, no?

And here's a direct question: is Romanov a difference maker?

 

[Throttle]

wonder what the variable there was (trotz)?



Dallas and Vegas have competent GMs. Nill somehow managed to keep winning and re-tooled his team on the fly. Heiskanen helped, but much of the youth of that team was built in the middle to late first round and later (in Stankoven's case).

One wishes that Lou was as capable. But he's not, as he continues to prove.

You do realize Lou has won more Cups as a GM than all those guys?

I think a vocal minority are fine duking it out for the WC2 spot. Hence the “we’re not winning the Cup anyway” jokes on the previous page

Post deadline, I think you do the best you can and see if you can get in. The difference in draft position is minimal. And it’s not extending the thinking this team can be competitive ‘as is’ any longer. Sorokin ain’t winning anybody anything right now. That’s on Roy to keep playing him.

To me, the post deadline play is 100% indictment on a number of these players, old dogs, scrubs, and core that certainly can’t deliver outside of a regimented system that they don’t seem to want to play anymore.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think a vocal minority are fine duking it out for the WC2 spot. Hence the “we’re not winning the Cup anyway” jokes on the previous page

I think this is similar to another conversation I had a few days ago about commenting on the game versus commenting on the state of the franchise.

In a GDT if I were to comment about something specific that happened it's very likely that someone will bring up the state of the franchise in some capacity. For example, Engvall makes a mistake and I comment on that mistake. There will inevitably be a comment about how I need to enjoy that for the next seven years because Lamoriello stinks. If Engvall were to score a hat trick and the Islanders win the game there would still be tons of commentary about how it doesn't matter because Lamoriello stinks.

For those who hate Lamoriello and/or where the franchise is right now nothing matters other than that. They'll make every post, whether it's about a game, a player, a salary, a trade, etc. about Lamoriello and why he needs to go. They also don't want to allow anyone else to enjoy the experience of a game, a season, or a playoff birth because they've already come to the conclusion that this team isn't going to win so no fun should be had.

The team is currently fighting for a WC2 spot, is it wrong for anyone to want the team to get that spot? Are people not allowed to comment on the team battling for that spot and be optimistic about it? I don't think optimism or hopefulness warrants a constant barrage from people who dislike where the franchise is headed and it doesn't mean that those optimistic fans will be happy or view the season as a success if the team does simply make it to the playoffs. If the team makes the playoffs I'd be happy for more hockey and reserve judgement on successfulness based off what happens then. I could be wrong but I tend to think most people view things similarly. I don't think being optimistic makes you complicit in what's happening.

If you're not enjoying the games, the season, the GM, the decisions being made, why are you bothering to watch? There's a desire for people to be correct and on the right side of whatever the dichotomy is and I think it leads to a lot of "I told you so"-ing, especially in the world of sports. This is something I'm guilty of too, it's hard not to sometimes. We should try to not do that as much.

And to be perfectly clear, while I'm responding to you directly I do not mean for the bulk of this to be at you.

 

[PK Cronin]

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[Strickland]

You do realize Lou has won more Cups as a GM than all those guys?

I do. I also realize that the last Cup he won was in 2003. To me, Nill's job has been nothing short of miraculous. I thought he was a poor GM a few years ago. The 2017 Draft gets the deserved hype, but what he has done in the 2019-2022 drafts has been astounding.

Vegas is a totally different animal, obviously. but they got Eichel and Stone (and it's not lost on me that Lou couldn't land Stone in 2019) and a deep and talented defense and have moved pieces around that. Lou hasn't been able to land an Eichel/Stone level talent.

 

[MarsTBOW]

I’ll feel better about this season if another half dozen players have surgery before the season is over.

That would explain a lot.

As long as it's "Brain Surgery" for all the Keystone Cops Coverage!
When was the last time you saw a triple Collision all on the same team in the NHL?

 

[Throttle]

I do. I also realize that the last Cup he won was in 2003. To me, Nill's job has been nothing short of miraculous. I thought he was a poor GM a few years ago. The 2017 Draft gets the deserved hype, but what he has done in the 2019-2022 drafts has been astounding.

Vegas is a totally different animal, obviously. but they got Eichel and Stone (and it's not lost on me that Lou couldn't land Stone in 2019) and a deep and talented defense and have moved pieces around that. Lou hasn't been able to land an Eichel/Stone level talent.

Vegas is not a different animal. Players want to play there. They are aggressive because the owner wants them to be. They want to win AND they don’t care about waiting on prospects to turn into players. They use them and their draft picks to improve for the here and now and sign guys. They also move guys that they no longer deem worthy of their mission - again, they can do that bc players want to play there. It matters on how you operate because they backfill easily.

 

[Strickland]

Vegas is not a different animal. Players want to play there. They are aggressive because the owner wants them to be. They want to win AND they don’t care about waiting on prospects to turn into players. They use them and their draft picks to improve for the here and now and sign guys. They also move guys that they no longer deem worthy of their mission - again, they can do that bc players want to play there. It matters on how you operate because they backfill easily.

That's fair, but I meant that Vegas wound up getting a plethora of assets in its expansion that it's still benefitting from. Hard to compare them to any other team when they essentially pissed away Nick Suzuki (?!?) and didn't even miss a beat.

And yeah, players wanna play there, but they also wanna play in Florida. But the Cats and Bolts can't go in to the extent that Vegas has (and they both HAVE basically gone all in) because they don't have as many bullets in the chamber.

 

[SI]

What does the Devils lottery luck in 2019 have to do with Lou? The Devils in 2013-2015 were much like these past few years of Isles: aging, bleeding talent, and capped out with bad contracts. Lou made trades (the Schneider one is a bad one) that didn’t improve the team, it collapsed around him and he got fired. And when he did, there was NOTHING in the system for his successor to inherit. Just a mess that took years and two GMs to dig out from.

You guys here are lost. Good God. Look at this team. Look at the farm system. Look at its Cap friendly page. It’s a tire fire. And it’s all Lou’s fault.

It’s funny I bet people here will jump in and defend the Romanov and Horvat trades, even though they were made to immediately improve the team, the team is as still mediocre at best and the two picks that were “years away” now are on the verge of playing in the league.

Again, disastrous.

It’s funny that I’m the one being called for not knowing what they’re talking about when people in this thread think Lou is getting fired (he’s not) or stepping down (lol) or gonna retool in the offseason and take a step back (haha). Who’s the fool here exactly?

But I’m sure the next trade he makes will be a good one. I’m sure of it! Hell people will defend the Romanov and Horvat deals in the posts under mine!

You need to do some homework -

The Devils have won the draft lottery 4 TIMES! 3 TIMES since LL's departure - 2017 1st OA NJ - Nico Hischier btw they moved up from 5th place, 2019 1st OA - Jack Hughes, NJ moved up from 3rd place, and 2022nd NJ 2nd OA moving up 3 spots. They also had Adam Larson (which turned into Taylor Hall, who won the MVP with Devils), Damon Severson, Blake Coleman, and a young Henrique and Zajac. Not sure if they were barren of talent.

Also, what do you mean dig out of - The Devils were back in the playoffs 2 seasons after his departure... dig out of?

2012 Devils lost in the Stanley Cup Final - the following offseason Parise left in a surprise move, The NHL work stoppage, the following offseason in 2013 a 29-year-old Kovalchuk retires from the NHL, and LL is fired in 2015.

His successor inherited the 6th OA draft pick in 2015 (which he f***ed w/ Zacha), draft picks to acquire Palmieri, and the players mentioned above, which are hardly nothing.

And Cory Schneider trade was an excellent trade for the Devils - Schneider was a prime #1 at 26 years old and gave the Devils some good/great seasons before the injuries.

Bleeding talent? How did the Devils or Isles bleed talent? Do you means draft picks? Or do you mean Raty? Because he is the only young player he has traded. The Toews trade was bad, but no one saw him to be this good as he has been - but also a COVID cap casualty.

Wait, hold on Horvat is not a good trade? Romanov?

Dude, you are trolling - I'm done engaging in your mania.

 

[doublechili]

You really can't say "well there's a chance the first round pick in the teens can bust" when the core of this team is built upon guys drafted right around then. Barzal and Dobson are Isles because Snow saw the value in extra picks.

That's not to say the draft is fool proof. But if you walk out of a draft with Alex Romanov when you're picking 13th, you've failed.

And to further that point, does anyone think they can get the 13th overall back for Romanov, now?

Look at the history of #13 overall picks and get back to me.

The draft is a crapshoot, even in the top 5 (maybe incredibly strong years as an exception). People around here were dancing in the streets when we drafted MDC, and even I (and what the hell do I know) was more than a little worried about his "easy" goals from the slot and his excess of PP points.

 

[SI]

I think this is similar to another conversation I had a few days ago about commenting on the game versus commenting on the state of the franchise.

In a GDT if I were to comment about something specific that happened it's very likely that someone will bring up the state of the franchise in some capacity. For example, Engvall makes a mistake and I comment on that mistake. There will inevitably be a comment about how I need to enjoy that for the next seven years because Lamoriello stinks. If Engvall were to score a hat trick and the Islanders win the game there would still be tons of commentary about how it doesn't matter because Lamoriello stinks.

For those who hate Lamoriello and/or where the franchise is right now nothing matters other than that. They'll make every post, whether it's about a game, a player, a salary, a trade, etc. about Lamoriello and why he needs to go. They also don't want to allow anyone else to enjoy the experience of a game, a season, or a playoff birth because they've already come to the conclusion that this team isn't going to win so no fun should be had.

The team is currently fighting for a WC2 spot, is it wrong for anyone to want the team to get that spot? Are people not allowed to comment on the team battling for that spot and be optimistic about it? I don't think optimism or hopefulness warrants a constant barrage from people who dislike where the franchise is headed and it doesn't mean that those optimistic fans will be happy or view the season as a success if the team does simply make it to the playoffs. If the team makes the playoffs I'd be happy for more hockey and reserve judgement on successfulness based off what happens then. I could be wrong but I tend to think most people view things similarly. I don't think being optimistic makes you complicit in what's happening.

If you're not enjoying the games, the season, the GM, the decisions being made, why are you bothering to watch? There's a desire for people to be correct and on the right side of whatever the dichotomy is and I think it leads to a lot of "I told you so"-ing, especially in the world of sports. This is something I'm guilty of too, it's hard not to sometimes. We should try to not do that as much.

And to be perfectly clear, while I'm responding to you directly I do not mean for the bulk of this to be at you.

FABULOUS!

 

[SI]

And for some other news -

Sources: NHL players can expect to receive half of escrow returned at $6.2 billion revenue projection

Players watching the playoffs from home this spring should be rooting for big market teams with high ticket prices and...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

This is big news and there is a significant chance that the League and NHL PA will go beyond the 5% MAX increase from the MOU they signed in the middle of the pandemic. It should have been higher last year and hopefully, we see a cap close to if not 90m when it is official.

The fact that the 6.2 B projection cuts into the 6% escrow by 50% and that is with the players paying back the final portion of the Covid debt.

The players have struggled to get the escrow down at one point it was 15% and during Covid, it was 20%.

This is important because it will give teams more $ during free agency, in particular the Islanders, where they do not have to send cap out to add.

 

[Strickland]

You need to do some homework -

The Devils have won the draft lottery 4 TIMES! 3 TIMES since LL's departure - 2017 1st OA NJ - Nico Hischier btw they moved up from 5th place, 2019 1st OA - Jack Hughes, NJ moved up from 3rd place, and 2022nd NJ 2nd OA moving up 3 spots. They also had Adam Larson (which turned into Taylor Hall, who won the MVP with Devils), Damon Severson, Blake Coleman, and a young Henrique and Zajac. Not sure if they were barren of talent.

Also, what do you mean dig out of - The Devils were back in the playoffs 2 seasons after his departure... dig out of?

2012 Devils lost in the Stanley Cup Final - the following offseason Parise left in a surprise move, The NHL work stoppage, the following offseason in 2013 a 29-year-old Kovalchuk retires from the NHL, and LL is fired in 2015.

His successor inherited the 6th OA draft pick in 2015 (which he f***ed w/ Zacha), draft picks to acquire Palmieri, and the players mentioned above, which are hardly nothing.

And Cory Schneider trade was an excellent trade for the Devils - Schneider was a prime #1 at 26 years old and gave the Devils some good/great seasons before the injuries.

Bleeding talent? How did the Devils or Isles bleed talent? Do you means draft picks? Or do you mean Raty? Because he is the only young player he has traded. The Toews trade was bad, but no one saw him to be this good as he has been - but also a COVID cap casualty.

Wait, hold on Horvat is not a good trade? Romanov?

Dude, you are trolling - I'm done engaging in your mania.

I'm aware of the Devils' history. I know Shero's mistakes. I'm also aware they made the playoffs twice after Lou left. But like the 2007 Isles after Milbury was gone, it was ephemeral. And I'm shocked here that people think merely making the playoffs is some kind of sign of success. Sure, if you're in the midst of a long drought, I get it. But does anyone long for the days of the 2004 Isles?

And yes, the Horvat and Romanov trades are bad. Horvat in particular is abysmal. A good player who was added because he was going to help this team win. And it hasn't. And the fear there (likely to be realized) is that by the time the team is ready to win, his best years are gone and the contract (like so many Isles contracts have become) becomes an albatross. What's the use of a win now player when the team was never going to win? What does it say about the GM that he thought the team was going to win and then it didn't?

As for Toews, plenty of fans, both Isles and league wide knew how good he was. That the GM didn't is a massive strike against him. One of MANY.

And I'm not trolling. I can't believe that people here, on a board that's meant to be discussing the Isles, think that having the opinion that Lou has done a bad job, is trolling. Stunning to me.

And yes, he's bled talent. He's traded FOUR straight first round picks. He chose Palmieri over Eberle. He lost Toews for nothing.

The thing that people here just don't engage me on this this irrefutable fact: they've missed the playoffs in 2 of 3 seasons (the new low bar the organization and some fans have set for themselves) and they have one of, if not the worst farm systems in the league.

What are we doing here? What are we defending? Why is this criticism being met with such open hostility? Baffling.

 

[doublechili]

I think this is similar to another conversation I had a few days ago about commenting on the game versus commenting on the state of the franchise.

In a GDT if I were to comment about something specific that happened it's very likely that someone will bring up the state of the franchise in some capacity. For example, Engvall makes a mistake and I comment on that mistake. There will inevitably be a comment about how I need to enjoy that for the next seven years because Lamoriello stinks. If Engvall were to score a hat trick and the Islanders win the game there would still be tons of commentary about how it doesn't matter because Lamoriello stinks.

For those who hate Lamoriello and/or where the franchise is right now nothing matters other than that. They'll make every post, whether it's about a game, a player, a salary, a trade, etc. about Lamoriello and why he needs to go. They also don't want to allow anyone else to enjoy the experience of a game, a season, or a playoff birth because they've already come to the conclusion that this team isn't going to win so no fun should be had.

The team is currently fighting for a WC2 spot, is it wrong for anyone to want the team to get that spot? Are people not allowed to comment on the team battling for that spot and be optimistic about it? I don't think optimism or hopefulness warrants a constant barrage from people who dislike where the franchise is headed and it doesn't mean that those optimistic fans will be happy or view the season as a success if the team does simply make it to the playoffs. If the team makes the playoffs I'd be happy for more hockey and reserve judgement on successfulness based off what happens then. I could be wrong but I tend to think most people view things similarly. I don't think being optimistic makes you complicit in what's happening.

If you're not enjoying the games, the season, the GM, the decisions being made, why are you bothering to watch? There's a desire for people to be correct and on the right side of whatever the dichotomy is and I think it leads to a lot of "I told you so"-ing, especially in the world of sports. This is something I'm guilty of too, it's hard not to sometimes. We should try to not do that as much.

And to be perfectly clear, while I'm responding to you directly I do not mean for the bulk of this to be at you.

Yeah, I mean, I'm just a fan. I have no real power to change anything (my apologies to the billboard people). I root for the team I'm given. I can have an opinion about the owners, or the GM, or the coach, or the players, and it's fun to talk about it here. But at the end of the day my opinion has no effect on anything that matters. So looking at the team this year maybe the best I could do was root for WC2. Would I rather they were seriously contending for a Cup? Of course. Do I think it's time for Lou to be replaced? Yes, and I posted that last summer. But in a 32 team league (soon to be 34), where 31 teams don't win the Cup every year (and where the "average" fan can expect 1 Cup every 32 years), I figure sometimes rooting for WC2 is going to be what's in the cards. If someone else chooses to approach things differently, that's fine. But maybe minimize the talk about "settling", or being "content with mediocrity". And I guess I'll try to cut down on the talk about ping-pong balls and draft parties.

 

[Strickland]

Look at the history of #13 overall picks and get back to me.

The draft is a crapshoot, even in the top 5 (maybe incredibly strong years as an exception). People around here were dancing in the streets when we drafted MDC, and even I (and what the hell do I know) was more than a little worried about his "easy" goals from the slot and his excess of PP points.

You're not wrong in the crapshoot nature of the draft. But Romanov was a prospect that had no offensive upside to his game (unless you think a random 7 game WJC is a good sample size). Those guys aren't drafted in the top half of the first round. At least not by good teams.

The Isles have made plenty of draft mistakes. The admission a few months ago by Snow that his scouts wanted Ehlers and he took MDC because he didn't like Ehlers' agent was maybe the worst admission by a GM I've seen in a long time. Good riddance.

But this core, the one that people here still (maybe rightly, I'm unsure) have faith in was built in the middle of the first round. Barzal. Dobson. Horvat. All drafted between 9-16. You can't let the fear of a bust dissuade you from first rounders. Especially when you're DESPERATE for the skill they can bring.

 

[Throttle]

That's fair, but I meant that Vegas wound up getting a plethora of assets in its expansion that it's still benefitting from. Hard to compare them to any other team when they essentially pissed away Nick Suzuki (?!?) and didn't even miss a beat.

And yeah, players wanna play there, but they also wanna play in Florida. But the Cats and Bolts can't go in to the extent that Vegas has (and they both HAVE basically gone all in) because they don't have as many bullets in the chamber.

Aging vets looking for a final contract wanted to play in FL. FL became a desirable place as they showed an upward trajectory, they hired Quenville as coach, and eventually COVID bc of the flat cap (the younger players have a different take on money and lifestyle) and FLs covid policy.

And for some other news -

Sources: NHL players can expect to receive half of escrow returned at $6.2 billion revenue projection

Players watching the playoffs from home this spring should be rooting for big market teams with high ticket prices and...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

This is big news and there is a significant chance that the League and NHL PA will go beyond the 5% MAX increase from the MOU they signed in the middle of the pandemic. It should have been higher last year and hopefully, we see a cap close to if not 90m when it is official.

The fact that the 6.2 B projection cuts into the 6% escrow by 50% and that is with the players paying back the final portion of the Covid debt.

The players have struggled to get the escrow down at one point it was 15% and during Covid, it was 20%.

This is important because it will give teams more $ during free agency, in particular the Islanders, where they do not have to send cap out to add.

Hey, more cap to be used… more expensive tickets, parking, concessions, fanatics gear for margin making, crappy inexperienced people on ESPN, etc.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm aware of the Devils' history. I know Shero's mistakes. I'm also aware they made the playoffs twice after Lou left. But like the 2007 Isles after Milbury was gone, it was ephemeral. And I'm shocked here that people think merely making the playoffs is some kind of sign of success. Sure, if you're in the midst of a long drought, I get it. But does anyone long for the days of the 2004 Isles?

And yes, the Horvat and Romanov trades are bad. Horvat in particular is abysmal. A good player who was added because he was going to help this team win. And it hasn't. And the fear there (likely to be realized) is that by the time the team is ready to win, his best years are gone and the contract (like so many Isles contracts have become) becomes an albatross. What's the use of a win now player when the team was never going to win? What does it say about the GM that he thought the team was going to win and then it didn't?

As for Toews, plenty of fans, both Isles and league wide knew how good he was. That the GM didn't is a massive strike against him. One of MANY.

And I'm not trolling. I can't believe that people here, on a board that's meant to be discussing the Isles, think that having the opinion that Lou has done a bad job, is trolling. Stunning to me.

And yes, he's bled talent. He's traded FOUR straight first round picks. He chose Palmieri over Eberle. He lost Toews for nothing.

The thing that people here just don't engage me on this this irrefutable fact: they've missed the playoffs in 2 of 3 seasons (the new low bar the organization and some fans have set for themselves) and they have one of, if not the worst farm systems in the league.

What are we doing here? What are we defending? Why is this criticism being met with such open hostility? Baffling.

It's not that you have the opinion that he's done a bad job, it's your reasons for saying he's done a bad job are ridiculous.

 

[BelovedIsles]

A former NHL goaltender stated it yesterday on XM NHL. I’ve surmised it, sure, but a professional that’s played the position at that level would have a stronger clue.

Right now, he lines up almost 100% with the 22 season. He had a .925 vs the .906 today.

He is among the leaders in high danger SV%.