Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[The Real JT]

I'm not entirely sure Mayfield was 100% healthy for even 1 minute this season. I'm not saying don't trade him if you can, just saying that it's not really fair to base his value off of this year's play.

It’s a fair point and I don’t disagree with you. On a positive note, he can still be an asset on the third pairing for hopefully at least a few more years.

The bigger issue for me is that signing was an unforced error. He very likely could have been flipped for a late first round pick or a second rounder and another asset at last year‘s TDL. Those assets didn’t need to be used solely on draft picks, but could have been used to acquire a younger, NHL ready player.

The consistent game plan of signing mediocre players at a reasonable initial AAV, but lengthening the term of the contract doesn’t sit well with me.

 

[MJF]

The consistent game plan of signing mediocre players at a reasonable initial AAV, but lengthening the term of the contract doesn’t sit well with me.

It’s like going into a new car dealership and negotiating low monthly payments instead of the closing price. That’s how you end up with a 72 month loan that’s under water after 48 months.

 

[Osakahaus]

The recent season ticket price hike has me concerned for their future as well.

 

[Osakahaus]

It’s a fair point and I don’t disagree with you. On a positive note, he can still be an asset on the third pairing for hopefully at least a few more years.

The bigger issue for me is that signing was an unforced error. He very likely could have been flipped for a late first round pick or a second rounder and another asset at last year‘s TDL. Those assets didn’t need to be used solely on draft picks, but could have been used to acquire a younger, NHL ready player.

The consistent game plan of signing mediocre players at a reasonable initial AAV, but lengthening the term of the contract doesn’t sit well with me.

and if we lost Mayfield and he became solid over there, you'd be upset as well

there is no real winning

 

[MJF]

The recent season ticket price hike has me concerned for their future as well.

The recent play of the last 3 years has me more concerned for their future.

and if we lost Mayfield and he became solid over there, you'd be upset as well

there is no real winning

Maybe, but you don’t sign players you can’t afford. Especially lower end players. It’s bad business.

 

[Osakahaus]

The recent play of the last 3 years has me more concerned for their future.

again, when you *barely* upgrade the main ingredients of the roster, then yeah you're gonna see stagnation.

 

[Top Corner]

Maybe, but you don’t sign players you can’t afford. Especially lower end players. It’s bad business.

100% Bang on! There is nothing Mayfield can do that can't be had by a league minimum guy. The endless commitment/Loyalty to players is commendable, but not a winning strategy in my eyes with a cap to work through.

 

[gordie43]

100% Bang on! There is nothing Mayfield can do that can't be had by a league minimum guy. The endless commitment/Loyalty to players is commendable, but not a winning strategy in my eyes with a cap to work through.

While mayfield has not played well, and it can be argued that his play could be directly related to his injury. My question to you is, who do you sign to play that third pairing D for comparable money?

Sure you could go with an untested Bloduc or Aho, but we see how that turned out.

Lou right or wrong didn’t want to go that path so who’s the veteran compared to Mayfield that is taking that salary?

It’s also important to know that Mayfield‘s contract maybe seven years but it’s easy to buy out in the end. It’s not like Andrew Ladds buyout proof contract. Realistically, you’re hoping to get four good years out of Mayfield by then the cap will go up and you can find a way to move him or bury him.

To be perfectly honest, he’s the least of his teams problems. The top four defenseman playing in their own zone has been very concerning. If they cannot figure it out, the Isles are in serious trouble

 

[Torrey Redux]

100% Bang on! There is nothing Mayfield can do that can't be had by a league minimum guy. The endless commitment/Loyalty to players is commendable, but not a winning strategy in my eyes with a cap to work through.

There is nothing commendable about it. It's the easy path.

The NHL is a hard cap, winning is the most important thing, the logo on the front more important than name on the back league. This is one of the reasons why Vegas already has a Cup and Finals appearance and we don't have shit. They only care about winning.

Lou should listen to his own advice, but he doesn't. He does the exact opposite.

 

[MJF]

While mayfield has not played well, and it can be argued that his play could be directly related to his injury. My question to you is, who do you sign to play that third pairing D for comparable money?

Sure you could go with an untested Bloduc or Aho, but we see how that turned out.

Lou right or wrong didn’t want to go that path so who’s the veteran compared to Mayfield that is taking that salary?

It’s also important to know that Mayfield‘s contract maybe seven years but it’s easy to buy out in the end. It’s not like Andrew Ladds buyout proof contract. Realistically, you’re hoping to get four good years out of Mayfield by then the cap will go up and you can find a way to move him or bury him.

To be perfectly honest, he’s the least of his teams problems. The top four defenseman playing in their own zone has been very concerning. If they cannot figure it out, the Isles are in serious trouble

Did you see how easy it was to find Mike Reilly? That’s how you find a replacement for Mayfield.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

There is nothing commendable about it. It's the easy path.

The NHL is a hard cap, winning is the most important thing, the logo on the front more important than name on the back league. This is one of the reasons why Vegas already has a Cup and Finals appearance and we don't have shit. They only care about winning.

Lou should listen to his own advice, but he doesn't. He does the exact opposite.

They were also given a conference finalist right out of the expansion draft...

 

[Throttle]

While mayfield has not played well, and it can be argued that his play could be directly related to his injury. My question to you is, who do you sign to play that third pairing D for comparable money?

Sure you could go with an untested Bloduc or Aho, but we see how that turned out.

Lou right or wrong didn’t want to go that path so who’s the veteran compared to Mayfield that is taking that salary?

It’s also important to know that Mayfield‘s contract maybe seven years but it’s easy to buy out in the end. It’s not like Andrew Ladds buyout proof contract. Realistically, you’re hoping to get four good years out of Mayfield by then the cap will go up and you can find a way to move him or bury him.

To be perfectly honest, he’s the least of his teams problems. The top four defenseman playing in their own zone has been very concerning. If they cannot figure it out, the Isles are in serious trouble

You are asking the right question, but generally no one will answer it. It’s just easier to yell at the GM for signing the player.

 

[Torrey Redux]

They were also given a conference finalist right out of the expansion draft...

It was a favorable set up to be sure, but I don't know if they were given anything. They made smart choices and then coached 'em up. Good on them, but since that time they have turned over virtually their entire roster. Much of it a couple of times. What have the Islanders done in that time? Same old familiar faces for the most part. Now make no mistake, Vegas will have to pay the price for it at some point, but they have a Cup and they have been ruthless in going after it.

 

[Torrey Redux]

Did you see how easy it was to find Mike Reilly? That’s how you find a replacement for Mayfield.

That one may have sort of worked out for the most part but the notion that finding players to improve your roster is somehow easy is absurd. What has having Mike Reilly gotten us that we didn't have before? A middle of the pack team struggling for a playoff spot. That should not be the goal.

Another poster posted this quote in Saturday's GDT: "As a long time Islanders fan, I consider just making the playoffs at all a wildly successful season."

I have not come across a sentence that more succinctly and completely captures the organizational mindset (and that of a huge chunk of the fan base) that has consigned the Isles to it's perennial middle of the pack status.

The "just make into the playoffs" mantra only works if you are actually great. Look at all of the WC teams that have been Cup finalists and/or winners, and there have been a lot of them, you would be hard pressed to find any of them that don't validate there greatness with multiple Cups and/or have multiple HOFs and true game breakers. So yeah, for them, "just make the playoffs" works because those teams are actually great and can prove it when it matters, but for the middle of the pack teams like the Islanders, it's idiotic because they aren't actually great so all they are doing perpetuating mediocrity.

And by they way, those folks who think that there is some quick retool turn around for this team, there isn't, but even if there was, the question becomes: Turn around to what? To becoming what it is right now - again? A team that plays in the middle and will perpetually draft in middle and will therefore stay in the middle until that mindset changes.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

It was a favorable set up to be sure, but I don't know if they were given anything. They made smart choices and then coached 'em up. Good on them, but since that time they have turned over virtually their entire roster. Much of it a couple of times. What have the Islanders done in that time? Same old familiar faces for the most part. Now make no mistake, Vegas will have to pay the price for it at some point, but they have a Cup and they have been ruthless in going after it.

Yes they made smart choices but not sure how (or why) you can compare the Islanders' situation (or any other team's) to a year one expansion team with the most favorable expansion draft ever. They weren't starting from the same position.

 

[Chockey22]

You are asking the right question, but generally no one will answer it. It’s just easier to yell at the GM for signing the player.

Kulikov, Stetcher, de Haan, Johnson, Benoit, Lyabushkin, Englund - just to name a few. All signed cheap, short deals and give you the equivalent on-ice performance that Mayfield has this season.

 

[Torrey Redux]

Yes they made smart choices but not sure how (or why) you can compare the Islanders' situation (or any other team's) to a year one expansion team with the most favorable expansion draft ever. They weren't starting from the same position.

Uh, that was 7 years ago and as I said, the VGK roster has turned over multiple times since then. That is to say, that despite an auspicious debut, they did not rest on their laurels and come back with the same team year after year trying to get a better result. They made changes and took risks. The Islanders on the other hand have had plenty of opportunity to remake their team in that time and have chosen to keep it largely intact. Why? So they could "just make the playoffs".

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Uh, that was 7 years ago and as I said, the VGK roster has turned over multiple times since then. That is to say, that despite an auspicious debut, they did not rest on their laurels and come back with the same team year after year trying to get a better result. They made changes and took risks. The Islanders on the other hand have had plenty of opportunity to remake their team in that time and have chosen to keep it largely intact. Why? So they could "just make the playoffs".

Uh, when you're starting with a clean slate and a very competitive team with no cap issues, etc. it's a lot easier to make the changes they made. Yes, they deserve credit but no other team had such an advantage. Ever.

What opportunities were there plenty of for the Islanders? Not saying Lou is beyond criticism, but if you're suggesting that this team could/should be a perennial playoff powerhouse like Vegas in Lou's tenure, I disagree. Look, I think it is TOTALLY fair to hold the opinion that after failing to make the playoffs 3 years ago, the team should've rebuilt. I personally would've disagreed with that strategy but definitely respect it. However, that would've meant several non-competitive seasons. This one most certainly included.

But I do not see any "misses" by Lou that would've resulted in the Islanders being legit cup contenders this year.

 

[The Real JT]

While mayfield has not played well, and it can be argued that his play could be directly related to his injury. My question to you is, who do you sign to play that third pairing D for comparable money?

It’s also important to know that Mayfield‘s contract maybe seven years but it’s easy to buy out…

To be perfectly honest, he’s the least of the teams problems. The top four defenseman playing in their own zone has been very concerning. If they cannot figure it out, the Isles are in serious trouble

Comments regarding the 3 bolded sections:

1. No disrespect to Mayfield but we could’ve gotten someone for the league minimum to do what he did for the team this year. For a player his age, you would think that his best years would be the first several years of the deal. We’ve already wiped out one of those years. We can only hope that his subpar performance was related to an injury.

2. It’s easy to buy out one contract but when you keep signing bad deals it’s harder to do on a regular basis. The obvious solution is, don’t sign mediocre players like a third pairing Dman to a contract that everyone knows won’t age well. Little did we know that the perspective of a poorly aging contract would stare us in the face during year one.

3. Yes, he’s not the worst of the team’s problems but no doubt he is on the list and not near the bottom.

 

[beach]

When Malkin hired Lou, he named him PRESIDENT and GM and the team went out of its way to include in the press release that Lou will have "full authority over all hockey matters." This tells me Lou is in charge. Period. I seriously doubt the owners get involved in the hockey details.

They'll get involved when the bottom line is affected.

 

[beach]

I'm not entirely sure Mayfield was 100% healthy for even 1 minute this season. I'm not saying don't trade him if you can, just saying that it's not really fair to base his value off of this year's play.

Agree. But let's hope it was injury related, as he was horrific.

 

[Torrey Redux]

Uh, when you're starting with a clean slate and a very competitive team with no cap issues, etc. it's a lot easier to make the changes they made. Yes, they deserve credit but no other team had such an advantage. Ever.

What opportunities were there plenty of for the Islanders? Not saying Lou is beyond criticism, but if you're suggesting that this team could/should be a perennial playoff powerhouse like Vegas in Lou's tenure, I disagree. Look, I think it is TOTALLY fair to hold the opinion that after failing to make the playoffs 3 years ago, the team should've rebuilt. I personally would've disagreed with that strategy but definitely respect it. However, that would've meant several non-competitive seasons. This one most certainly included.

But I do not see any "misses" by Lou that would've resulted in the Islanders being legit cup contenders this year.

No, I'm suggesting that if you're not a perennial powerhouse, and the Islanders never were, you don't keep doubling down on the same players just so you can "make the playoffs". Lou resigned Anders Lee and gave him a NTC, Lou resigned Matt Barzal and gave him an NTC, Lou signed JGP and gave him an NTC, Lou resigned Ryan Pulock and gave him an NTC, Lou resigned Adam Pelech and gave him an NTC, Lou resigned Cal Clutterbuck, Matt Martin and Casey Cizikas. Lou has had multiple opportunities to make changes. He decided to stay with what he had and the results are as you see them. Do you think the lineup would look the same if Kelly McCrimmon were the GM of the Islanders? This started as a discussion about Lou's "loyalty". I call it pig-headedness and lazy, and I think it's a liability.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

No, I'm suggesting that if you're not a perennial powerhouse, and the Islanders never were, you don't keep doubling down on the same players just so you can "make the playoffs". Lou resigned Anders Lee and gave him a NTC, Lou resigned Matt Barzal and gave him an NTC, Lou signed JGP and gave him an NTC, Lou resigned Ryan Pulock and gave him an NTC, Lou resigned Adam Pelech and gave him an NTC,

I wouldn't worry about NTCs.

And all they really mean is that the GM can't just flat out trade the guy without his permission. A player can always waive it, if he so desires. And giving them out usually knocks down the price a bit.

 

[Torrey Redux]

I wouldn't worry about NTCs.

And all they really mean is that the GM can't just flat out trade the guy without his permission. A player can always waive it, if he so desires. And giving them out usually knocks down the price a bit.

I understand that, but when the contract is already an overpay and the asset is not easily moved even without it and then you add that little extra it doesn't help.

 

[duster19]

Did you see how easy it was to find Mike Reilly? That’s how you find a replacement for Mayfield.

Exactly this. We’ve fallen in love with players for what they did years ago, not for what they are doing now. Mayfield is just one of a couple on the backend that fall under this category. The identity line is another. It should have put everyone on notice that a waiver wire pickup and a guy traded for a 7th round pick played at a better level or similar to these core guys. Even Maclean came up and has looked better then a lot of our players. We can’t be afraid of change.