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Roster Building XXV: Winning Rantanen's Undying Love

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Blueline Bomber said:
Did you miss that the Islanders immediately flipped Kylington to the Ducks for future considerations? So obviously, either the “good prospect” or the “21st best prospect” (couldn’t tell you which one is Kylington) is not as big of a factor as you’re making it out to be.

Nelson got a (likely) late 1st, a 3rd two drafts from now, and a good prospect. If we can get Stankoven + Borque + 1st for Rantanen, that’s basically the same.
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Extended Rantanen >>> Nelson so I hope whatever we get back is reflective of that

Just have a bad feeling we are going to end up effectively waiting a Necas trade on a final return of a lot of what we already have. Good not not great players that are incapable of taking over a game when the rest of the team struggles
 
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Assuming this all goes through….

We traded out a Necas with only one more year of control.

Now we are trading out a Rantenan that is signed for 8 more years and Dallas beats everyone in free agency and doesn’t have to fight on July 1 and gets a playoff run this year as a bonus….

So we increased the value before we traded Rantanen the second time. A Rantanen signed for 8 more years is worth way more than the original amount paid for him in our first trade…

We better get a killing for him with an extension…. It didn’t quite work as planned but at the time Calgary was thought to have made out great getting a high end Huberdeau and Weeger, a prospect and a 1st and 4th rounder…. Part of the reason it was so heavy on Florida giving up resources was because Tkachuk came with a new 8 year deal signed as part of the trade versus the older players not being extended before the deal.

We should definitely get a lot more than what the Islanders got for a pending UFA Nelson or I would question the decision to go ahead and do the trade. No matter how unhappy and how likely he would be to leave in July, players can’t stop their emotions from kicking in during the playoffs and there is a lot of value in having a proven playoff performer with you for a playoff run in a season where the East is ripe for the taking compared to previous years…
 
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And the wrist party of all this, if Rants does extend in Dallas this is now 2 elite players who got a taste of hockey here with this team who left as soon as they could. It's basically telling the fans that we are never getting an elite player here, our city isn't good enough for them and as such we are always going to have a bit of a glass ceiling on our potential because of it.

Really hurts. Really, really hurts the perception of this organization around the league and to free agents. Especially after seeing guys like Hamilton and Trocheck also bolt as fast as they could in the past, and someone like Pesce apparently not returning our calls after the season last year when we tried to circle back.
 
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Nikishin al Gaib said:
And the wrist party of all this, if Rants does extend in Dallas this is now 2 elite players who got a taste of hockey here with this team who left as soon as they could. It's basically telling the fans that we are never getting an elite player here, our city isn't good enough for them and as such we are always going to have a bit of a glass ceiling on our potential because of it.

Really hurts. Really, really hurts the perception of this organization around the league and to free agents. Especially after seeing guys like Hamilton and Trocheck also bolt as fast as they could in the past, and someone like Pesce apparently not returning our calls after the season last year when we tried to circle back.
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I think Pretzel and Mikko are two different situations. One would have signed; other, clearly not.

Mikko is a single guy and perhaps big city life is what he wants (reported differently at the trade though).

Having said that, Dundon, Tulsky and RBA need to learn from this and adjust.

Btw: I’d rather let him go now than have a $100m boat anchor

Btw2: Mikko saves 4% in taxes signing in Texas too.
 
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Friedman saying, and rightfully, the only way this gets done is with an extension. Lesson for Tulsky.

This one is on how bad Dallas wants to lock him up. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance he rides it out here to ufa and screws us all.
 
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Borsig said:
Treated him? That poor abused baby. How dare we try to find chemistry since he scored nothing and can't complete a pass. How about he should have acted like a player that is expecting the biggest ufa contract in the league instead of a sulky moody bitch?
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Necas is who I was talking about..you said he could f**k off, too?

The MR thing indicates to me that certain types of skill players aren't going to work with the Canes or maybe it's that the whole setting and personality of the org is too out of the box for elite players used to doing things a certain way especially if he signs today after saying I need time. Or, maybe there was something to the not enough glitz and glam for his gf rumor from the intern. Who knows.
 
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We low balled Guentzel. We didnt lowball rantanen. We Didn't pay 1mm or whatever for hamilton, and rightfully so. Pesce, well, we F'd around on Guentzel and here we are with a shitty D. I said for MONTHS we should keep one, and here we are.

I also said early last year or whenever, that Stankhoven should be someone we targeted for our 2C but we'd never be able to get him. I've been in on stank for like a year.

Tulksy has really made some mistakes.

hblueridgegal said:
Necas is who I was talking about..you said he could f**k off, too?

The MR thing indicates to me that certain types of skill players aren't going to work with the Canes or maybe it's that the whole setting and personality of the org is too out of the box for elite players used to do things a certain way especially if he signs today after saying I need time. Or, maybe there was something to the not enough glitz and glam for his gf rumor from the intern. Who knows.
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Necas can f*** off because he is acting like "we should have known..." Blah blah blah. Necas is the most contract indecisive player we've had in ages. Taking to arbitration, blah blah blah. He's been difficult the whole time. I mean you can put a lot of good players on McKinnon's wing and they do what he's doing. It's McKinnon. He's acting all like we blew it. He wants to take shots from colorado after arbitration and not coming to a deal here. The reason he's in Colorado is we didn't know if he would sign either and we didn't want to lose an asset.

She will get plenty of Glitz in Dallas. That place is all big hair, big boobs and rhinestones. Oh and Latinos. I go like 2 times a year and the cliches are absolutely true. Nice rink though. And the train drops you right at the gate.
 
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I still think they’ll get Marchment back too remember this is a guy who actually almost signed in Carolina. I think we get at least 3 of the following. 1st, Stankoven, Bourque, Marchment or Bishcel. We could also give them Roslovic if they needed a extra forward
 
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hblueridgegal said:
Necas is who I was talking about..you said he could f**k off, too?

The MR thing indicates to me that certain types of skill players aren't going to work with the Canes or maybe it's that the whole setting and personality of the org is too out of the box for elite players used to do things a certain way especially if he signs today after saying I need time. Or, maybe there was something to the not enough glitz and glam for his gf rumor from the intern. Who knows.
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I agree.

A Tkachuk would have bought in; Mikko/Necas types much less so.

The organization mindset of just playing N/S needs some flexibility (Shane droned on about the team playing to its roots Of N-S in second intermission).

I will say Necas’ play prior to this year would have brought the wrath of most NHL coaches and he is a better player today having learned from RBA.

re: losing players in the past. Pretzel is the only one I criticize strongly. Dougie, Tro, Pesce and Skjei have bad contracts and Dougie is getting a lot of criticism from NJ fans, Tro looks to be on a slide and Pesce and Skjei will age out.

Edit: re profile of guys that have bought in, Blake. He is a deft creative ( not N/S Shane) player BUT has learned to become very defensively minded too. A complete player

Edit2: Canes played last night like they knew Mikko wanted to go.
 
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User13452 said:
I still think they’ll get Marchment back too remember this is a guy who actually almost signed in Carolina. I think we get at least 3 of the following. 1st, Stankoven, Bourque, Marchment or Bishcel. We could also give them Roslovic if they needed a extra forward
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I was thinking JUST this. Marchment hasnt been that good there so meh, but we were all over the guy previously. Bish is a lefty though. I mean he is a BIG, powerful dude if you've seen him play. I could see getting him but where do you put him? I like the thought as an add, he's a great D prospect, and we could use that big hitting style. He has a ways to go to be ready but he's damn sure better than Morrow on the defensive side.

ETA I watch a lot of Stars hockey and Bish is just huge. He's like 6'7" or something. I've been all over Stank for a long time and I feel the stars have a lot of center depth which is why he's a likely piece. Borque kind of reminds you of Blake. The thing about Blake is his production drops when he comes off Aho's wing. I feel like borque might be a little better than Blake. Borque's hockey IQ is high as hell for a young player.

I still think even rantanen for 8 doesn't get you Johnston. That's like us trading Aho. Robertson would be like us givign up Jarvis. Dallas is a better built team than we are. They don't really have any "odd shaped pieces" like Necas.

I don't want Marchment. I wasnt Stank, in ANY deal that won't include Johnston (it wont). Then I want Borque first, then Bish if we can't get borque. All 3 would be EPIC but thats not happening. If rantanen plays ball (I have my serious doubts - however a poor year in CAR could hurt his contract un UFA - a lot) we could come out of this way better than IMO 8 of Rantanen. I would much rather have Stank, Borque, Bish and or a combination of picks etc than Nachos OR Rantanen. These young guys will go a long way to developing a much longer competitive window, which I'd rather have than an all in year when we don't have shit to bring anyway.
 
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Borsig said:
I was thinking JUST this. Marchment hasnt been that good there so meh, but we were all over the guy previously. Bish is a lefty though. I mean he is a BIG, powerful dude if you've seen him play. I could see getting him but where do you put him? I like the thought as an add, he's a great D prospect, and we could use that big hitting style. He has a ways to go to be ready but he's damn sure better than Morrow on the defensive side.
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Simple you move off Orlov for a good haul today seeing as he’d be the best defenceman available now and teams would want him. You run Slavin Bischel Ghost until Nikishin is here and then you move ghost in the offseason and you’ve got your left side for the next 5 plus years
 
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Borsig said:
We low balled Guentzel. We didnt lowball rantanen. We Didn't pay 1mm or whatever for hamilton, and rightfully so. Pesce, well, we F'd around on Guentzel and here we are with a shitty D. I said for MONTHS we should keep one, and here we are.

I also said early last year or whenever, that Stankhoven should be someone we targeted for our 2C but we'd never be able to get him. I've been in on stank for like a year.

Tulksy has really made some mistakes.


Necas can f*** off because he is acting like "we should have known...
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Necas was asked a question in media scrum after practice and voiced what the majority were saying. I don't think it was out line. The rest of the interview is positive about his friends and times with the Canes..blah blah.

Like I said earlier..some mirrors are needed when the same failures happen over and over. You didn't mention all the near trade misses and why they didn't land either. So, it's everyone else's fault except our owner, GM, coaches, style of play?
 
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hblueridgegal said:
Necas was asked a question in media scrum after practice and voiced what the majority were saying. I don't think it was out line. The rest of the interview is positive about his friends and times with the Canes..blah blah.

Like I said earlier..some mirrors are needed when the same failures happen over and over. You didn't mention all the near trade misses and why they didn't land either. So, it's everyone else's fault except our owner, GM, coaches, style of play?
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No i think Dundon meddles too much, and Tulksy still has his spots. Targeting wishy washy players in UFA is meh.
 
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hblueridgegal said:
Necas was asked a question in media scrum after practice and voiced what the majority were saying. I don't think it was out line. The rest of the interview is positive about his friends and times with the Canes..blah blah.

Like I said earlier..some mirrors are needed when the same failures happen over and over. You didn't mention all the near trade misses and why they didn't land either. So, it's everyone else's fault except our owner, GM, coaches, style of play?
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Exactly. It's becoming a theme of high profile players just not wanting to be here. We trade for Rantanen and he mopes around and never gives us a shot? And we say Guentzel wanted to be here, but he's not wearing our jersey right now. Trocheck couldn't get out of here fast enough. Pesce didn't return our calls.

At the end of the day, maybe the problem really is our front office, owner or coach.
 
Borsig said:
Treated him? That poor abused baby. How dare we try to find chemistry since he scored nothing and can't complete a pass. How about he should have acted like a player that is expecting the biggest ufa contract in the league instead of a sulky moody bitch?
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Lol wut?

You're off your Fruit Loops mate
 
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Jarvis,Blake,stankoven,Bourque,Nadeau that’s a lot of small right handed guys if they were to be getting Stankoven and Bourque
 
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