Roster Building XXI: It Gon' Go Down.

[FlyingSquirrels]

When the season ended, I thought the Canes wouldn't let both Guentzel AND Necas go because that would hurt our forward depth way too much (and without any seemingly good replacements that are likely this summer), but here we are looking at the very real possibility of losing both.

Also, our 2C situation is still bad.

They should have, or should (if they actually keep Necas) give him a try at the 2C spot. He's wanted to be a centerman, and we need a 2C. Why not see how he does after getting experience? Is he really gonna be a downgrade compared to what we've had after Trocheck?

Don't think we're going to just let Necas go. It will be a hockey trade as opposed to a top draft pick. I'm looking at Winnipeg. We'll see.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Didn’t trocheck the same things and as it turned out he didn’t want to stay either.

Taking too long to go up 150k a year is nonsensical. We are talking less than 2% of the total contract.

Just sounds like an excuse

An excuse for what? And for what reason? If Guentzel didn't want to play here, he would have indicated he didn't plan on re-signing and planned on testing FA. And we likely wouldn't have spent time and effort convincing him otherwise. Look at Pesce. We knew his plans from the get-go and have done nothing to convince him otherwise.

Given the history of this management when it comes to negotiations, it's far more likely that Guentzel got fed up with the attempts to deviate from his asking price, and when it got closer and closer to FA and he saw what other teams were apparently offering, he moved on from the Canes, even after they (apparently) met his original ask.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

An excuse for what? And for what reason? If Guentzel didn't want to play here, he would have indicated he didn't plan on re-signing and planned on testing FA. And we likely wouldn't have spent time and effort convincing him otherwise. Look at Pesce. We knew his plans from the get-go and have done nothing to convince him otherwise.

Given the history of this management when it comes to negotiations, it's far more likely that Guentzel got fed up with the attempts to deviate from his asking price, and when it got closer and closer to FA and he saw what other teams were apparently offering, he moved on from the Canes, even after they (apparently) met his original ask.

The 8th year option for us adds more total money to an offer. So get a total money offer from us and move on to get more money from a market he wants to play in. Its called playing the game. It happens at this level.

We have tried to convince pesce of otherwise. Pesce is just going to get a lot more than we are comfortable offering. Pesce’s ask and our offer isn’t a difference of 2-5%. We are at over 500k a year and a 6th year difference. These aren’t in the same ballpark

 

[Sigurd]

Why would further downgrading the 2c be better for us? Necas doesn’t show much that says he can play center at this level. He doesn’t win FOs, he isn’t defensively responsible, his positioning wouldnt suggest he is getting himself into good position for the next play or transition.

I suggested we give him a try. We didn't even play him at 2C during pre-season last year after he stated he wanted to be a 2C. We wouldn't know until we tried.

Also, our 2C situation has been bad for too long. KK is overslotted. He's at best a 3C. Yeah, he's not bad defensively, but offensively he's a black hole. Kuzy looked good overall to me for a 2C, and he really helped drive offense, but long term he isn't a solution given his age for one thing. I'd still like to keep him on the team. I'd prefer him as our 2C than KK.

Don't think we're going to just let Necas go. It will be a hockey trade as opposed to a top draft pick. I'm looking at Winnipeg. We'll see.

I meant let go as in not extending. But yes, if we just let him walk instead of trading him and getting something in return, that's unacceptable. We need to get something of value from trading him.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I think there's a lot of overthinking involved with Guetnzel here...it's likely as simple as Tampa just became an option when they weren't previously.

That doesn't necessarily say he was unhappy and never signing here, or was acting in bad faith with the 8x8 ask. Tampa is one of the top destinations for the many reasons we all know, and he'd just prefer to go there. Sucks that we probably could have gotten it done earlier when Tampa wasn't on his radar, but we'll figure out a different way to use the $8m and move on.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I think there was obviously still a chance we could sign Guentzel as it sounded like we kept hammering away and got close. But keep in mind we put his rights out there too. This was always very much a possibility. Maybe Tampa being an option at the end did sway things. Maybe we botched it. Maybe both. Most likely time to move on and it's possible it won't be a big deal.

There is no reason to cave to Necas on playing center. He's not one.

I don't think anything has gone quite to plan at this point but there are still a lot of opportunities out there to field a really good team.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Kick the can on Necas. It’s in his best interest to bring it in search of a big contract elsewhere next Summer.

If he does stay, Drury is the logical 2C based on chemistry. Pull the plug on the Kuznetsov experiment during the arbitration buyout window. A ~$10 mil 4th line would be silly.

Don’t care about 5v5 play, Stamkos is a unique opportunity to try to fix the PP in a meaningful way, rather than just accepting it as a weakness. I hope they’re in on him.

Martinez is a logical short-term vet 3rd pairing LHD. He has a former teammate in Dundon’s ear to advocate for him potentially.

Kapanen remains interesting to me for his wheels.

 

[Svechhammer]

Regarding Necas, I don't think there's really any hope of him being here long term, so we might as well make sure we get something for him while we can.

Regardless of Guentzel coming back, Necas probably needs to be moved to help maximize how competitive we are long term. And heck, if Guentzel leaves, it's probably not worth keeping Necas around just for what will likely be a transition year.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I think there was obviously still a chance we could sign Guentzel as it sounded like we kept hammering away and got close. But keep in mind we put his rights out there too. This was always very much a possibility. Maybe Tampa being an option at the end did sway things. Maybe we botched it. Maybe both. Most likely time to move on and it's possible it won't be a big deal.

There is no reason to cave to Necas on playing center. He's not one.

I don't think anything has gone quite to plan at this point but there are still a lot of opportunities out there to field a really good team.

Elliott's recap pod last night basically framed it as 8x8 being the initial ask from Guentzel's camp right after the season ended, so our FO always thought we had that to fall back on depending on how the off season played out. So they decided on Thursday/Friday they wanted to go ahead and do 8x8, but it sounds like they flew to close to the sun of July 1 and leaving him unsigned allowed other teams space to get into the race.

I hope it's not the case, but I think the Guentzel to Tampa ship has sailed at this point. Elliott floated Tampa as a dark horse on Friday morning, and the longer he's gone unsigned combined with the Sergachev/Jeannot trades seem to be a pretty good indication Tampa is confident they're getting him.

This is probably just me being petty, but I'd rather not trade his rights for something like a late 3rd at best. I'd rather make Tampa carry the extra $1m on cap for 7 years.

 

[cptjeff]

Regarding Necas, I don't think there's really any hope of him being here long term, so we might as well make sure we get something for him while we can.

Regardless of Guentzel coming back, Necas probably needs to be moved to help maximize how competitive we are long term. And heck, if Guentzel leaves, it's probably not worth keeping Necas around just for what will likely be a transition year.

Agreed. He doesn't want to be here, we don't like how he plays. Just f*ing move on, get a good return, don't try to force things. We'll still be a comfortable playoff team even if it's a retool year.

 

[spockBokk]

I’d like them to mend fences with Necas and know they have most of the leverage, but I just don’t see him a Cane come October. Even with his contract situation, I keep coming back to Ehlers + that one.

With the news that CBJ offered Necas a contract, I wonder if it was because Necas refusing sign was the reason that trade fell through. If a team is insistent on an extension being in place prior to a trade, that complicates things as Necas could refuse to sign in non-desirable locales. I also wonder if the Canes would elect arbitration on their behalf to take away the OS threat.

Stamkos and Marchessault seem like prime targets to me. To a lesser extent, maybe Lindholm.

I like the idea of giving Kapanen a 1yr deal. DeBrusk seems interesting too. The rest of the UFA crop of forwards…meh. I’d rather them just bring back Teravainen over most of the other options.

I do think they add another top 4 capable D, be it re-upping Skjei at the last minute, Walker in ufa or someone like Ferraro in a trade.

Also hope they’re exploring what it cost to get Laine.

Edit-is Stamkos a viable 2C still at his age? Seems like he’s played wing the past few seasons. I could be wrong…

 

[Lempo]

I also wonder if the Canes would elect arbitration on their behalf to take away the OS threat.

If the team elects to take a player to the salary arbitration (and I'm not sure but today may be the final day for that), the player will have until July 5th (I think) to try find and sign an offer sheet, and if he does, the salary arbitration procedure lapses and it will go by the offer sheet rules from thereon.

 

[spockBokk]

If the team elects to take a player to the salary arbitration (and I'm not sure but today may be the final day for that), the player will have until July 5th (I think) to try find and sign an offer sheet, and if he does, the salary arbitration procedure lapses and it will go by the offer sheet rules from thereon.

Ah, well, then at least they’d have some protection after 7/5.

I think he’ll be traded in the near future, but could also see it dragging out. That wouldn’t be good for anyone.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Todays the day to extend qualifying offers to Necas and Jarvis, so at least we’ll have some news by the end of today.

 

[Lempo]

Ah, well, then at least they’d have some protection after 7/5.

I think he’ll be traded in the near future, but could also see it dragging out. That wouldn’t be good for anyone.

There's risks involved, because Necas can say he'll choose it to be a one year deal and then next summer he can't be taken to the salary arbitration any more as a player can only be taken there once in his career. In Necas' situation with two years left to UFA, I don't think he loses anything, as after the one year the team will have to QO him for the same base salary as he had on his one year salary arbitration award.

Obviously nothing is stopping them to mutually broker a contract before the arbitration hearing, so it's not the worst strategy.

 

[ElmCityGuy]

I'm still holding onto hope the Canes can some how get Hoglander.

 

[Buenos Necas]

Todays the day to extend qualifying offers to Necas and Jarvis, so at least we’ll have some news by the end of today.

Also IIRC the 8th-year option expires at midnight tonight, so we'll effectively have the Guentzel answer at that point.

 

[Highest Boss]

I'm still holding onto hope the Canes can some how get Hoglander.

For memes or for hockey?

 

[Lempo]

For memes or for hockey?

 

[User13452]

There it is Guentzel to Tampa for a third round pick

 

[ElmCityGuy]

For memes or for hockey?

Well the chances the Canes win the Cup is really slim.. the chances I own a Canes jersey with Hoglander on it would be a guarantee.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

I’d look at something around Necas for Askarov

 

[Ole Gil]

There it is Guentzel to Tampa for a third round pick

Now to hope he signs for 9.5x7.

 

[User13452]

I’d look at something around Necas for Askarov

I wouldn’t. Makes no sense canes have kooch we don’t need another goalie shouldn’t be the priority right now we need forwards bad

 

[WreckingCrew]

I’d look at something around Necas for Askarov

Hell no, Askarov doesn't have that kind of value, especially after Saros just signed a huge contract it's pretty clear they don't see him as the goalie of the future.