Roster Building XIX - Did we blow the deadline? Need to ask the magic 8-ball

[Chrispy]

I think my issue has always been when certain players seem like they’re on the way out, the board turns on them like this. The guy loves hockey, and he’s worked very hard to get better. I see the effort. He used to seem like a puppy, eager to get his teammates to like him through his play. Just really seems to be a likable human being. He’s always been a unique player, more dynamic than all of our other players but with his limitations. He’s stronger to the point he lost some top end speed imo but he’s very upright and easily knocked off the play. Obviously this is why open space works better for him. He tried to learn how to slow down for his teammates to involve them in the play but usually they just lose the momentum anyways. I wanted to see him more with Aho because they scored some great goals together but this wasn’t to be.

Necas is maybe the only guy on the team with a consistent one timer than he can get on net. He’s been working on it since he was with Velucci in tbe AHL. Other than occasionally Aho and that one week this year where Svech had one there’s no one else. We never featured it. It’s an afterthought play on the second unit.

I don’t care about his Dad saying anything. He probably had no idea what he was doing and that it would make it to the podium over here. Necas is not his Dad anyways and probably isn’t happy that he said anything to anyone about his personal aspirations. Necas has played similar to his other years but clearly didn’t enjoy himself as much this season. He wants out and I don’t blame him. Maybe he succeeds, maybe he stays the same but he put the work in and I think he deserves a chance somewhere else without our scorn.

Agreed. He's a special talent, and I don't want to see Carolina give him away like they did Skinner simply because he isn't the ideal fit.

If there's a deal for a good young player or a player signed 3+ years in their prime, I understand why a move might be made that can improve the team short-term and fill a different hole.

But this team needs more scoring up front. They need Guentzel and Jarvis and Necas, and frankly still need one more top 6 forward (ideally a C, or moving Jarvis or Necas to C) on top of that.

Even if Necas goes for a good young defenseman, there will be another top 6 hole that needs to be filled.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I think my issue has always been when certain players seem like they’re on the way out, the board turns on them like this. The guy loves hockey, and he’s worked very hard to get better. I see the effort. He used to seem like a puppy, eager to get his teammates to like him through his play. Just really seems to be a likable human being. He’s always been a unique player, more dynamic than all of our other players but with his limitations. He’s stronger to the point he lost some top end speed imo but he’s very upright and easily knocked off the play. Obviously this is why open space works better for him. He tried to learn how to slow down for his teammates to involve them in the play but usually they just lose the momentum anyways. I wanted to see him more with Aho because they scored some great goals together but this wasn’t to be.

Necas is maybe the only guy on the team with a consistent one timer than he can get on net. He’s been working on it since he was with Velucci in tbe AHL. Other than occasionally Aho and that one week this year where Svech had one there’s no one else. We never featured it. It’s an afterthought play on the second unit.

I don’t care about his Dad saying anything. He probably had no idea what he was doing and that it would make it to the podium over here. Necas is not his Dad anyways and probably isn’t happy that he said anything to anyone about his personal aspirations. Necas has played similar to his other years but clearly didn’t enjoy himself as much this season. He wants out and I don’t blame him. Maybe he succeeds, maybe he stays the same but he put the work in and I think he deserves a chance somewhere else without our scorn.

Fans on this board turning on Necas because he is on his way out this isnt close to true. people have been mad at necas for a long time, including me. He is a top end player when he wants to be. But he usually doesnt want to be based on his effort levels. he is a turnover machine and lacks general care for defense.

that isnt just because his dad has requested a trade, that is just necas. A lot of fans have been saying that for 2+ seasons.

just like it wasnt true for Hamilton, Ned, Skinner, or the likes. Same fans have disliked them well before they were no longer here.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Yeah, if you haven't seen the board constantly ripping on Necas for his turnovers, you haven't been paying attention.

Frankly, Necas was on his way out the minute it became obvious he wasn't going to replicate his 70 point season this year. If you're not going to be responsible defensively, you need to put up enough points to offset your defensive shortcomings. Necas DOES have the ability to do that, but it's unlikely to happen in Carolina.

 

[bleedgreen]

Agree with this. His one-timer would be a good book end with Nadeau on the PP.

My qualm with Necas is sometimes forgetting it’s a team game and the fact that he hasn’t worked enough on his upper body to be a more physical player.

He has the frame to get stronger, but just hasn’t committed to it, ie the way Jarvis has. He used his body more in the corners this year but come playoff time you need more.

I agree he has to get stronger but I’m not convinced it’s upper body. I think the core and lower body are why he gets knocked around and why he’s so upright. I highly doubt he isn’t working on those parts, and I think like many of us he’s fighting genetics there. He doesn’t have a low center of gravity like Jarvis does. Jarvis has a nice wide base, Necas has a skinny one. Necas can throw himself into the fray on occasion but without that base it just isn’t as effective. I’d be surprised if there was a commitment difference vs Necas trying to overcome his natural frame. He’s long, lean and upright, Jarvis is shorter, compact and low to the ice.

Necas actually has come a long way in this category. Early on we thought he was going to end his own career slamming himself into the boards being too fast mixed with being so easy to knock over. I used to joke about the wind he creates being his greatest adversary.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

anyone trying to paint necas' issues as effort based is out to lunch. the guy is clearly trying out there every game, sometimes seems like the only guy who wants to make something happen offensively. he's the exact type of player who will torch us for 2+ goals every time we play him if we let him go

 

[Blueline Bomber]

anyone trying to paint necas' issues as effort based is out to lunch. the guy is clearly trying out there every game, sometimes seems like the only guy who wants to make something happen offensively. he's the exact type of player who will torch us for 2+ goals every time we play him if we let him go

If he utilized his speed to backcheck with the same effort he uses it to generate offense, he'd be Brindamour's favorite player

 

[SlavinAway]

If he utilized his speed to backcheck with the same effort he uses it to generate offense, he'd be Brindamour's favorite player

Yeah, I love Necas but this is it right here and what separates Jarvis.

Even yesterdays Canada v Czech game, Necas could've prevented the OT goal if he had decided to back check hard after whiffing on the shot and giving up the puck.

 

[SlavinAway]

Oof

Proposal: - NSH/CAR: Everybody's Talking Marner to Nashville, but...

Hear me out, because it's hard to balance the value of Necas versus the value of clearing cap, but... :nashville Martin Necas (Extended) Dmitry Orlov :canes Conditional 2025 1st Round Pick (Nashville chooses their pick or Tampa's) Why for Nashville: Acquires a good young Top 6 talent that...

forums.hfboards.com

Martin Necas (Extended)
Dmitry Orlov



Conditional 2025 1st Round Pick (Nashville chooses their pick or Tampa's)

 

[bleedgreen]

This is kind of the funny part. I went and watched the highlights, I missed it if anyone said anything about him getting two really nice sssists on the pp from the left circle he excels from. Especially the game tying direct assist with the goalie pulled. Just talk of defensive play when Canada broke down the Czechs on a simple two on two Necas had nothing to do with. Reminds me of a lot of plays where people blame Necas when he’s not the guy that got broken down for us. That was Pasternak who just let his guy go to the net and watched. Necas is behind the play. Yes it’s nice if you’re there but there generally isn’t reason to sprint back to cover a two on two where you’ve already got your two in place. At that point your job is to make sure number three is covered.

That’s a pretty obvious and blatant horrible defensive gaffe by Pasta. Not sure where anyone would get Necas on that.

 

[Borsig]

The only problem I have with Necas is he seems like a me me me type.

 

[Lempo]

Necas knows his future pay checks depend on how much he produces and he's going to produce more playing with better players and on a top PP unit. That's not unreasonable IMO.

Yup. The players got their personal windows opening and closing, too, as their hockey careers go. You don't want to be stuck with show-me deals and situations where it is difficult for you to show.

On that note, dealing with the parents is a thing too. For these guys to eventually make it to the NHL roster, their parents have been putting insane amount of work and money to get them to be even a consideration at the Entry Draft. Obviously you don't want Nylander's dads to hover over when you're trying to conduct your business, but you need to understand that in a way the dad is understandably conscious of the return of investment, in lack of better word, to all those junior years. You as a GM need some tack in situations where the player and the team are just incompatible with each other. Even if you thought that the dads can stay out of it and you know for a fact that their kids are now adult men who snort coke out of hooker's asses. The kid still know who made it all possible for them, off-hand jests by a GM for soundbite purposes may have potential make an iffy situation worse.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Players are graded differently.

Pasta with 110+ points for 2 straight seasons will not be graded for his defensive issue the same as a guy who has 123 combined the last 2.

Lets not hurt ourselves trying to make stretch comparisons

Necas was the one who, and typically does, starts the bad plays with another turnover.

 

[WreckingCrew]

anyone trying to paint necas' issues as effort based is out to lunch. the guy is clearly trying out there every game, sometimes seems like the only guy who wants to make something happen offensively. he's the exact type of player who will torch us for 2+ goals every time we play him if we let him go

Same with Skinner, people who said he wasn't trying or disinterested were crazy to me, when he was constantly busting his ass to make things happen. But with no support, it resulted in costly turnovers sometimes. He was often the only player visibly frustrated with the team coasting through the years.

I love what Necas brings, and when he's playing the defensive game he's actually pretty solid much of the time...but those offensive turnovers way too often lead to odd-man rushes and goals against. I still would like to keep him personally because he brings scoring, speed, and skating we can't much match in the lineup, but he just can't seem to mesh with anyone in particular for too long. Him & KK were fire to start the year but then they both fell off for a while. Necas and Aho have had chemistry, but again always short-lived. My preference would be to find someone he can mesh with and keep him, but we're not going to have a second scoring line without that. So if we can get a better second line by subtracting him and putting on a lesser threat that makes the whole line better, then so be it.

He has the tools, but can't always seem to figure out what to do, how to slow things down, and how to use his teammates...he gets tunnel-vision and misses wide-open teammates, or wide open nets. But he's also scored some absolutely critical goals and is one of the few who can throw in an occasional snipe or one-timer...but his overall game is lacking enough that if he's asking more money or term than he's worth, then you might have to part ways.

 

[bleedgreen]

Players are graded differently.

Pasta with 110+ points for 2 straight seasons will not be graded for his defensive issue the same as a guy who has 123 combined the last 2.

Lets not hurt ourselves trying to make stretch comparison

Wait….wut?!?

Have you watched the play in question? Please do.

What comparison was made? There was no comparison. Someone made an analysis on the last goal, I think if you watch it there’s a clear error on the play that’s not Necas. That’s not a comparison.

Rod would love your grading concept.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Wait….wut?!?

Have you watched the play in question? Please do.

What comparison was made? There was no comparison. Someone made an analysis on the last goal, I think if you watch it there’s a clear error on the play that’s not Necas. That’s not a comparison.

Rod would love your grading concept.

necas was just as much of an issue on that play as pasta. again players graded differently and it really doesnt matter than pasta just let his dude go there. Why would we even care what pasta did? we are talking about our player.

ive see the play. classic necas. his feet are ahead of his hands when someone comes near him and he loses the puck. bad TO, once again. Should they have scored on the 2 on 2, no but Necas wasnt there to atone for his mistake either. Its just necas.

 

[To Be Determined]

This is kind of the funny part. I went and watched the highlights, I missed it if anyone said anything about him getting two really nice sssists on the pp from the left circle he excels from. Especially the game tying direct assist with the goalie pulled. Just talk of defensive play when Canada broke down the Czechs on a simple two on two Necas had nothing to do with. Reminds me of a lot of plays where people blame Necas when he’s not the guy that got broken down for us. That was Pasternak who just let his guy go to the net and watched. Necas is behind the play. Yes it’s nice if you’re there but there generally isn’t reason to sprint back to cover a two on two where you’ve already got your two in place. At that point your job is to make sure number three is covered.

That’s a pretty obvious and blatant horrible defensive gaffe by Pasta. Not sure where anyone would get Necas on that.

No one has argued with him being named player of the game. That is kind of the point, and highlights what is so frustrating. That simple two on two started because of a horribad turnover from necas. On its own, shit happens. After watching him for years, that shit happens to him seemingly so much more often that it'll drive you mad. Even in a game where he did really well, there is that frustrating thing again.

And if it makes you feel better, i specifically called out pasta blowing it on the game winner in post 1016.

 

[bleedgreen]

necas was just as much of an issue on that play as pasta. again players graded differently and it really doesnt matter than pasta just let his dude go there. Why would we even care what pasta did? we are talking about our player.

ive see the play. classic necas. his feet are ahead of his hands when someone comes near him and he loses the puck. bad TO, once again. Should they have scored on the 2 on 2, no but Necas wasnt there to atone for his mistake either. Its just necas.

lol ok. Necas is just as much as an issue as Pasta. It’s an easily covered two on two that gets completely blown. Why do we care about what Pasta did?!? It cost them the game. The two on two should’ve been nothing.

Aho makes that turnover. TT. Burns. Everyone on the first pp.

You’re already in the mode of putting Necas in the same bucket you put Trocheck and the others in. Every time he makes a bad play on his next team you’ll post about it no matter how many nice plays he makes. If he’s putting up numbers you'll put effort into diminishing them. Got it.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

lol ok. Necas is just as much as an issue as Pasta. It’s an easily covered two on two that gets completely blown. Why do we care about what Pasta did?!? It cost them the game. The two on two should’ve been nothing.

Aho makes that turnover. TT. Burns. Everyone on the first pp.

You’re already in the mode of putting Necas in the same bucket you put Trocheck and the others in. Every time he makes a bad play on his next team you’ll post about it no matter how many nice plays he makes. If he’s putting up numbers you'll put effort into diminishing them. Got it.

lol. salty because another GMRF pick isnt beloved I see.

dude makes another bad turnover that helps lose his team the game and we cant call it out for the 100th time in his career. got it.

 

[bleedgreen]

lol. salty because another GMRF pick isnt beloved I see.

Oh that’s adorable.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Oh that’s adorable.

the truth can be cute, thanks

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

anyone trying to paint necas' issues as effort based is out to lunch. the guy is clearly trying out there every game, sometimes seems like the only guy who wants to make something happen offensively. he's the exact type of player who will torch us for 2+ goals every time we play him if we let him go

I agree with this and also think it’s going to happen. I think he’s gone.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

anyone trying to paint necas' issues as effort based is out to lunch. the guy is clearly trying out there every game, sometimes seems like the only guy who wants to make something happen offensively. he's the exact type of player who will torch us for 2+ goals every time we play him if we let him go

Sorry but no. He is trying hard to force things. That isn’t effort to win the game (like getting back on defense after a turnover). He is spinning his wheels in the mud. Just like skinner. He might be sweating but his “effort” isn’t in helping the team win.

A little less trying to go 1 on 3, which is a no win situation, and a little more trying to play a complete game.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Yup. The players got their personal windows opening and closing, too, as their hockey careers go. You don't want to be stuck with show-me deals and situations where it is difficult for you to show.

On that note, dealing with the parents is a thing too. For these guys to eventually make it to the NHL roster, their parents have been putting insane amount of work and money to get them to be even a consideration at the Entry Draft. Obviously you don't want Nylander's dads to hover over when you're trying to conduct your business, but you need to understand that in a way the dad is understandably conscious of the return of investment, in lack of better word, to all those junior years. You as a GM need some tack in situations where the player and the team are just incompatible with each other. Even if you thought that the dads can stay out of it and you know for a fact that their kids are now adult men who snort coke out of hooker's asses. The kid still know who made it all possible for them, off-hand jests by a GM for soundbite purposes may have potential make an iffy situation worse.

Good points. Body/facial language of both RBA and DW at that question was telling though.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Just because Necas is likely the odd man out doest make him this piece of shit hockey player. He’s frustrating as all hell, but he will have a great career somewhere else. And thats ok. He doesn't have to be a villain and neither does the organization.

 

[moses malone 12]

This is kind of the funny part. I went and watched the highlights, I missed it if anyone said anything about him getting two really nice sssists on the pp from the left circle he excels from. Especially the game tying direct assist with the goalie pulled. Just talk of defensive play when Canada broke down the Czechs on a simple two on two Necas had nothing to do with. Reminds me of a lot of plays where people blame Necas when he’s not the guy that got broken down for us. That was Pasternak who just let his guy go to the net and watched. Necas is behind the play. Yes it’s nice if you’re there but there generally isn’t reason to sprint back to cover a two on two where you’ve already got your two in place. At that point your job is to make sure number three is covered.

That’s a pretty obvious and blatant horrible defensive gaffe by Pasta. Not sure where anyone would get Necas on that.

people see what they want to see. I could point out numerous plays he made defensively the past two seasons. this is the timeframe that I view as most relevant. the kid is a special talent and he plays hard. he's not jeff skinner 2.0 defensively. far from it. he's also not soft.

Haters want him gone and that may well be the case as the team views him as a tough fit stylistically and salary cap wise. the player with the biggest flaws on this team in terms of effort, production and salary is KK. Hands down. need to deal with this issue as it impacts the team more than Necas' flaws. Frankly, I would try to resign Necas to a bridge deal and move him to 2C assuming he embrace this. that's his ticket to a massive payday.