Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXVI: The End (The Apocalypse Is Now)

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just for reference, on this experience issue by the way, again, my statement being "You don't need a third of the roster to be grizzled playoff veterans," I'd cite the 2009-10 Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks. The only veterans with real playoff experience in an expanded role both when they got the experience AND during that year for the Blackhawks (ie, no use in counting old vets who once played on playoff teams but added next to nothing to ice time for the Blackhawks), would have been Marian Hossa, Brian Campbell, and John Madden.

Maybe Thomas Kopecky but his time and contibution with the Red Wings was relatively minor, as well as with the Blackhawks, like 9 minutes of ice time.

Kane, Toews, Sharp, Ladd, Keith, Versteeg, Brouwer, Bolland, Byfuglien, Seabrook, Barker, Fraser, Hjallmarsson, none of them had any relevant playoff experience before what they would have acquired with the Hawks the year before when they lost the conference finals to the Redwings. Sharp and Ladd had both been on playoff teams before, but it was during years they were rookies and had limited ice time... not what I'd call grizzled veterans.

Just sayin'. You need SOME veteran leadership, but not a ton. Not in today's league.

It boggles my mind how deep that team was.

But I'm with you, A ton of experience is not necessary to be a leader, some people are just wired that way (Towes is a great example of this.) Experience doesn't hurt, being able to draw on situations from the past has some value, but I don't know just how much value I would place on it.

What you want is a room that holds everyone accountable and polices themselves. That isn't a 1 or 2 person job, it requires buy in from everyone.

No I wouldn't trust a room full of 20 year olds to be able to handle things in that way, I haven't seen a single person suggest as much, but I also sure as hell wouldn't keep players around who hurt on ice performance and player development just because they've been around the block a few times.

 

[Ola]

Lundkvist and Fox are the two that are interchangeable in terms of style/role. TDA has a speedy/dynamic side neither of those two have.

One of NL or Fox should definitely be regarded as a trade chip, and I would definitely prefer to bet on Fox. Think he is really special.

Nils is darn impressive, and he would provide a really nice return in a trade too I imagine.

 

[mas0764]

I just hate the thought of trading Nils.

I hear everyone saying it's unrealistic but I still also would want to try someone on an off side.

 

[GAGLine]

I just hate the thought of trading Nils.

I hear everyone saying it's unrealistic but I still also would want to try someone on an off side.

Why would we trade Nils? It makes more sense to trade a more expensive, more valuable player. It may not happen this summer, it may not happen next TDL or next summer, but at some point I think ADA will be traded. Whether it's for a LD or for a top 6 player, I think it's going to happen.

 

[mas0764]

Why would we trade Nils? It makes more sense to trade a more expensive, more valuable player. It may not happen this summer, it may not happen next TDL or next summer, but at some point I think ADA will be traded. Whether it's for a LD or for a top 6 player, I think it's going to happen.

Cause it's really hard to bring yourself to trade a 24 year old 60 point defender.

Especially if the organization is trying to accelerate to compete around Mika/Panarin/Kreider.

 

[aufheben]

Just for reference, on this experience issue by the way, again, my statement being "You don't need a third of the roster to be grizzled playoff veterans," I'd cite the 2009-10 Stanley Cup winning Chicago Blackhawks. The only veterans with real playoff experience in an expanded role both when they got the experience AND during that year for the Blackhawks (ie, no use in counting old vets who once played on playoff teams but added next to nothing to ice time for the Blackhawks), would have been Marian Hossa, Brian Campbell, and John Madden.

Maybe Thomas Kopecky but his time and contibution with the Red Wings was relatively minor, as well as with the Blackhawks, like 9 minutes of ice time.

Kane, Toews, Sharp, Ladd, Keith, Versteeg, Brouwer, Bolland, Byfuglien, Seabrook, Barker, Fraser, Hjallmarsson, none of them had any relevant playoff experience before what they would have acquired with the Hawks the year before when they lost the conference finals to the Redwings. Sharp and Ladd had both been on playoff teams before, but it was during years they were rookies and had limited ice time... not what I'd call grizzled veterans.

Just sayin'. You need SOME veteran leadership, but not a ton. Not in today's league.

I agree that a team doesn’t necessarily need playoff experience but nonetheless, Sharp was 28, Keith was Zibanejad’s age, Sopel, Huet, Campbell, Kopecky, Hossa, Madden. They definitely had a share of vets.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You don't trade DeAngelo because Nils 'might' be as good.

If you slide DeAngelo over to the left you can have a D with them and Fox.

 

[Ola]

Why would we trade Nils? It makes more sense to trade a more expensive, more valuable player. It may not happen this summer, it may not happen next TDL or next summer, but at some point I think ADA will be traded. Whether it's for a LD or for a top 6 player, I think it's going to happen.

I would look at it like this, who — else — could offer a prospect of Nils caliber in a trade? Not many, right. I think he is up there in the top 15 prospects outside the NHL. Florida isn’t trade Denisenko. Colorado isn’t trade Bryam. And so forth.

There will, from time to time, be really attractive players that becomes available. If Gorton puts Nils on the table, it will be hard to match. He has unique value as a trade chip to, so to speak.

 

[Fugazy]

AV hated DeAngelo.

I'm sure the feeling was mutual.

 

[mas0764]

I agree that a team doesn’t necessarily need playoff experience but nonetheless, Sharp was 28, Keith was Zibanejad’s age, Sopel, Huet, Campbell, Kopecky, Hossa, Madden. They definitely had a share of vets.

Sure, but we'll have that share of age discrepancy by time we are close to a Cup, were that to be 2-3 years. With or without Kreider, which was the original source of disagreement.

Mika would be 28-29, Panarin would be 30-31, DeAngelo will be 26-27, Trouba will be 27-28. I'm sure free agent veterans on shorter deals will also come available in that time and want to play here... lesser players like Bonino or whoever.

 

[SA16]

The rigid insistence on RHD and LHD is one of the worst things to happen to hockey strategy and roster building in recent memory.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm sure the feeling was mutual.

DeAngelo sounds like a smart guy.

 

[Off Sides]

I too think ADA is eventually the trade, and they'll probably back fill that RD spot with someone who has size and character. I am also interested to see this LD they will target to fill the Staal/Smith LD role.

 

[aufheben]

The rigid insistence on RHD and LHD is one of the worst things to happen to hockey strategy and roster building in recent memory.

Vegas has 2 RHD and 6 LHD. Their best defensemen plays on his offside, and so does does their #2D.

This is their current top-6:

LHD-LHD
LHD-LHD
LHD-RHD

 

[GAGLine]

Cause it's really hard to bring yourself to trade a 24 year old 60 point defender.

Especially if the organization is trying to accelerate to compete around Mika/Panarin/Kreider.

It's not like we'd be trading him for futures. The idea would be to trade him for a player of equal value, but at a position of need.

 

[Raspewtin]

It's not like we'd be trading him for futures. The idea would be to trade him for a player of equal value, but at a position of need.

a 50+ point OFD and PPQB is of need

 

[GAGLine]

a 50+ point OFD and PPQB is of need

I think we have that in Fox, who is younger, cheaper and a better defender. And depending on what Lundkvist becomes, ADA will be a luxury.

Maybe someone can play the offside and that's the solution, but that doesn't seem like something the Rangers have been keen on doing. I'm not trying to push ADA out the door and I'm perfectly fine waiting until we know what we have in Lundkvist, but I think it's just a matter of time before he is traded.

 

[duhmetreE]

I keep them all as long as possible... ADA is a massive part of this teams success IMO.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I too think ADA is eventually the trade, and they'll probably back fill that RD spot with someone who has size and character. I am also interested to see this LD they will target to fill the Staal/Smith LD role.

I like ADA a lot. I believe they will sign him after trading Skjei, not counting Fast, I'm conservatively seeing $3m in space after signing all of our roster RFA's with raises.

If, they chose the trade route, I have a feeling Calgary is in the mix after they were reported by Edge iirc, to be "checking in" and it was said by multiple sources they are looking for RD, and "big names" are in play not necessarily for an RD.

 

[Edge]

The Rangers still have a lot of draft ammo despite no 2nd:

If the Rangers hold onto two picks, there's a chance they could come away with some good forward depth.

Now, having said that, I think it's important to note that landing a player with a more immediate impact will be difficult if the picks hold steady at their current positions. However, there's still a chance to get a mix of floor and ceiling with two picks, in an attempt to keep things balanced.

So if you look at the TSN rankings, you could have a scenario where the Rangers grab a kid like Holloway at 14 and Mysak at 20. One a utility player who could serve a valuable support role, the other a guy with some intriguing offensive upside who brings with him some risks.

And I have to tell you, while it's no lottery win, I'd be very okay with that.

 

[Tossed Medal]

The rigid insistence on RHD and LHD is one of the worst things to happen to hockey strategy and roster building in recent memory.

The removal of the two line pass rule has players coming at defensemen at a higher pace and with lighter gear And fitter Faster players most D MEN can’t as effectively turn and move the puck up ice and protect themselves on their off side . It’s more about the d zone then it is at the offensive blue line .

 

[Off Sides]

I like ADA a lot. I believe they will sign him.

If, they chose the trade route, I have a feeling Calgary is in the mix after they were reported by Edge iirc, to be "checking in" and it was said by multiple sources they are looking for RD, and "big names" are in play not necessarily for an RD.

I like ADA, always have even back when hardly anyone else did. Even back when he was being benched for no reason.

That said, they signed him last year to basically the minimum amount possible, then they made cap room like 5 days later by shipping out Names. I think they would have to offer a shit ton for any UFA years at this or really any point to buy them.

 

[Tossed Medal]

I also didnt think fox would be a first pairing defenseman with the iq of einstein on the ice

I guy from the job’s union cane in to the firehouse a few months back . His kid grew up playing in same leagues as Fox and said the way he’s playing now is the exact way he’s played since childhood . Just a very heady player with a feel for the game and sees and reads the ice at the highest level . Maybe the best trade JG has made , despite Fox really forcing his way here , we struck gold with this kid and I only hope he stays healthy and we don’t bridge him and lock him up wiry term at a good AAV when we can .

 

[Edge]

The rigid insistence on RHD and LHD is one of the worst things to happen to hockey strategy and roster building in recent memory.

I don't think it's a rigid insistence so much as it really puts a lot of pressure on your defense. Even a lot of players will tell you that it's not the same as having a wing play the offside.

Then you have to factor in that forwards are come at you faster than ever, and the overall speed of the game just keeps increasing. So that adds another layer,

Then, in the case of the Rangers, you have to account for the concept that some of the names we're bantering around, though talented, aren't necessarily human erasers and would also be in a somewhat redundant role if paired opposite each other.

So I think you're not necessarily playing to the strengths of the guys you have, or complementing them quite as effectively as possible.

Is it doable? Yes, to an extent. But I don't know if it's necessarily the best path forward or that rigid adherence is the culprit.

 

[Cag29]

Lundkvist and Fox are the two that are interchangeable in terms of style/role. TDA has a speedy/dynamic side neither of those two have.

One of NL or Fox should definitely be regarded as a trade chip, and I would definitely prefer to bet on Fox. Think he is really special.

Nils is darn impressive, and he would provide a really nice return in a trade too I imagine.

Nils + for Bowen Byram?