Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXIII: 33rd thread twds the line of dead

[mas0764]

I’m curious what people’s opinion would be:

Would we prefer this team just make the playoffs and get ousted in the first round in 4-5 games or not make the playoffs and get the better draft picks?

the latter times a billion.

I’m all aboard the playoff train next year though.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

It happens, and I don't have the stats in front of me. Just based in my anecdotal observations over the years that it's a tendency.

For sure. Penguins I’m pretty sure got swept by the Sens in Crosby’s first playoffs. But I just don’t think rushing to lose in the playoffs is worth hurting a rebuild.

 

[nyrage]

The game is SIGNIFICANTLY different than from when Graves played the game in front of the net. Heck its different from when Holmstrom made a living there. Defenders cannot take liberties with the opposing forward in front. Cant be done anymore.

I forgot where I saw it last night (Athletic, Post, Twitter?), but CK mentioned how much abuse he takes in front of the net. It does take a toll every night.

You're right that the game isn't the same as it was, but you would be surprised how much abuse still happens in the crease (except for the opposition when they are in our crease). You're constantly getting whacked in the legs and back with crosschecks, slashes, and spears. It's just not as bad as it was years ago.

 

[mas0764]

In 05'-06' the Rangers limped into the playoffs on the back of a phenomenal rookie goaltender and a MVP caliber season from a forward. They then decided to commit to the idea of being a playoff team going forward...

and the next 5 years consisted of (in order):
2nd round exit
2nd round exit
1st round exit
Did not qualify
1st round exit

Then in 11'-12' we lost in the Conference Finals
2nd round exit the year after
Then the Stanley Cup loss in 13'-14'

So, when we had a very, very good rookie goalie, and some other young players (albeit not as good as the collection we have now), we decided that henceforth we would be a team aimed at the playoffs... and it took us 6 additional years to make our first Conference Finals appearnace, and 8 years from that original starting point to make a Stanley Cup Finals.

It was a good decade stretch, no doubt.

However, if we go by the phrase of 'if you don't learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it' - well, I think it best to be sellers again, stock assets, and look for the corner turn next year. Rather than to push the button now simply because the season is going better than expected.

Preach.

 

[Bob Richards]

Kreider is a freak among freaks though, at least athletically. I *think* he'll age well, but it's definitely a risk, no doubt about it.

I feel like I see this sentiment about a bunch of different players in numerous sports who ultimately declined hard anyway.

I'm not saying it will happen because obviously I don't know but guys being physical specimens never seemed to matter much to Father Time

 

[EdJovanovski]

Make the playoffs.

I always prefer to make the playoffs. I especially prefer it when you have a lot of young kids who can get an early taste of what that atmosphere and gameplay is like so that when this team thinks it is really ready to compete, these kids arent getting shell shocked. They have an idea of what to expect and how to prepare.

I prefer it over banking on a lottery system hoping to jump from spots 12-15 because thats where they will be. The West is tight and the Rangers will finish with more points than many of the non-playoff teams

We disagree on a lot but I agree with you on this 100%

 

[Synergy27]

I'd hope they'd aim to sustain the teams competence over the next full decade, in which shesty, fox, Kakko and the like will all be in their primes. I'm not interested in lives that help us slightly in the first half of the decade that screw us over in the second.

I’m not either, necessarily, but the way the team is built right now, this team is going to have to win while Panarin is still a dominant player and Kakko is on a cheap contract (and hopefully a dominant player). This was the decision made when signing Panarin.

 

[Lone Ranger]

5 years $37.5 million for Kreider? Anyone think this gets it done. He gets a little bump in AAV to offset the two extra years. He'll be 34 at the end of that term; and there's nothing to say he couldn't recoup some of the money over those last two years on an ensuing deal.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I feel like I see this sentiment about a bunch of different players in numerous sports who ultimately declined hard anyway.

I'm not saying it will happen because obviously I don't know but guys being physical specimens never seemed to matter much to Father Time

 

[NYRangers16]

But, given the state of the “accelerated” rebuild, the question becomes whether or not that’s something we can live with. We’d ideally have had 2-3 legitimate Cup runs with Kreider at that point. If they haven’t won yet, we’d be looking at another rebuild, significant retool, by then anyway.

You are assuming we will get 2-3 legit cup runs before Kreider’s contract becomes awful and I don’t know why anyone would assume that.

Think about how much trouble we are in with Smith, Staal, and The King now. Kreider dropping off (even following a normal NHL power forward aging curve), combined with the fact we are still building and it’s entirely possible the first 2 years don’t get us a long playoff run. And depending on how he ages(and contract length), the last 2-3 he could actually hurt our chances. So really, we’d be signing up for all that risk for maybe a sweet spot of 2-3 years of production in the middle. Sounds like a way to screw up all the progress this team is making.

(edit)How do we reduce that risk - only way is by reducing term. That at least makes safer that we won’t be on the hook in those later years. But will Kreider take a discount? Most FAs don’t. So ultimately it depends on him.

 

[RGY]

In 05'-06' the Rangers limped into the playoffs on the back of a phenomenal rookie goaltender and a MVP caliber season from a forward. They then decided to commit to the idea of being a playoff team going forward...

and the next 5 years consisted of (in order):
2nd round exit
2nd round exit
1st round exit
Did not qualify
1st round exit

Then in 11'-12' we lost in the Conference Finals
2nd round exit the year after
Then the Stanley Cup loss in 13'-14'

So, when we had a very, very good rookie goalie, and some other young players (albeit not as good as the collection we have now), we decided that henceforth we would be a team aimed at the playoffs... and it took us 6 additional years to make our first Conference Finals appearnace, and 8 years from that original starting point to make a Stanley Cup Finals.

It was a good decade stretch, no doubt.

However, if we go by the phrase of 'if you don't learn from history then you are doomed to repeat it' - well, I think it best to be sellers again, stock assets, and look for the corner turn next year. Rather than to push the button now simply because the season is going better than expected.

The key to my opposition resides with the bolded in your post. Context.

The Rangers made the playoffs right out of the lockout after the rule changes. Yes they did strike gold with a late round rookie goaltender from Sweden. They had Jagr and decided to ride that rookie goaltender and make their attempt at the playoffs. The massive difference here is that the Rangers did not rebuild. At all. They did not bottom out or even come close to it. The youth they had was not that impressive. It was a hard working blue collar style to compliment Jagr. And then eventually Gaborik was inserted. Then Richards. Then Nash. Somewhere in that time they got lucky with picks like Stepan in the 2nd really panning out, Hagelin, etc, to add to Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, Dubinsky, and Callahan. But again never fully rebuilding. Never getting top 1st round picks. Never getting multiple 1st and 2nd round picks. Never this much depth.


Its different. Very different. The youth, which is much more talented with higher ceilings, is here now...not on the way.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

View attachment 324069

Big part of it along with wear and tear.

 

[bobbop]

The Rangers are not getting Newhook or Byram, can we please sticky this? I’m sick of this unrealistic bullshit.

Bynam, no chance. Newhook...hmmm.

 

[Matt4776]

Bynam, no chance. Newhook...hmmm.

don't do this to me

 

[Fitzy]

I'll posit that the reason for our sustained "Okayness" from 2006 to 2012 had less to do with draft position and a lot more to do with stupid UFA decisions and bad luck. We got lots of young talent in that time, just not all from the draft. We also found good bargain veterans like Vinny Prospal and Sean Avery.

It was the Wade Redden, Chris Drury, Marcus Naslund over Jagr, dumping Zherdev for nothing type decisions IMO that killed us more than trading a few 2nd rounders for rentals.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Who knew Chris Kreider would be the one to tear us apart?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Bynam, no chance. Newhook...hmmm.

don't make this place meltdown now

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Some very good arguments being made on both sides of the coin here

I’m all for pushing to make the playoffs, that experience is invaluable. After all, that’s why you play the game, to win.

It also bodes well for the coach, the confidence the players have in him and the overall culture this young group takes with them into the following seasons.

 

[Kovalev27]

The difference between Lee and Kreider is Lee cant skate for shit. Thats why his contract is bad

readinf comparisons to lee and lucic is flat out embarrassing

 

[Fitzy]

Who knew Chris Kreider would be the one to tear us apart?

We had these same discussions about Ryan Callahan.

I'm just surprised there wasn't more controversy over Hayes or Zuccarello.

 

[JimmyG89]

It's going to come down to these teams. Can't see any other options. They are the closest to challenging for the cup and any other team would be taking a leap of faith.

Colorado has better assets, but the Bruins window is closing sooner and might be more desperate to make a deal.

88 hours until the deadline and with Tampa breathing down Boston's necks, it could pressure them into the move.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The Rangers are not getting Newhook or Byram, can we please sticky this? I’m sick of this unrealistic bullshit.

People never learn

 

[Avery16]

 

[Tawnos]

It's going to come down to these teams. Can't see any other options. They are the closest to challenging for the cup and any other team would be taking a leap of faith.

Colorado has better assets, but the Bruins window is closing sooner and might be more desperate to make a deal.

88 hours until the deadline and with Tampa breathing down Boston's necks, it could pressure them into the move.

It’s kinda hilarious that it does look like it’ll come down to those two. Because it’s pretty much been about those two since the season started.

 

[Mikos87]

Starting next week the near term outlook for the roster's forward core is the following:

xxx-Zibs-Buch
Bread-Strome-xxx
xxx-Chytil-Kakko
Lems- Howdie-xxx

Kreids, Fast, and Mckegg get you a 1st, 2nd, 6th, and Two Prospects/players.

Gauthier fills one of those slots.
Digi is a good fill in for one those slots but perhaps better as a 13th forward.
You have to think that one of the two pieces coming back in a trade is going to be a roster player upfront.
With Lias busting away and Vitali enigmatic season, you really have Morgan Barron as the farmhand that can step in up front.

Net of it is, the Rangers still need to grab a top 6 forward in a trade and pray that one of the kids takes a major offensive step.

That's why you still hear about Geo being thrown out there for a forward. Say that's Labanc.

xxx-Zibs-Buch
Bread-Strome-Labanc
VK/CK Trade-Chytil-Kakko
Lems- Howdie-Goat

The Rangers are then a Kappa Kakko breakout and a veteran 4th liner away from having a really good forward group.