Roster Building Thread VI (2022-23): Offseason edition

[Savant]

Yes and No.
Miller took a step back in his puck handling this year, but he's capable of launching stretch passes, but I think the lack of movement in the neutral zone caused him to rush and fumble more than he should've, same with schneider. From a different sport perspective.

You basically told an NFL QB that he needed to hit 30 yard timing routes, but wouldn't know the route the player was taking while having a Linebacker in his face and coming from behind.
Not surprising that only fox handled that well.

I don’t think there is a ton of evidence to suggest this. I think this is wishful thinking. The game hasn’t gotten slower, and they need players besides Fox that can do this consistently. I don’t think this is a skill that you can just flip on/off.

 

[Barnaby]

I think one of the best examples is Chicago. They accepted the lumps and rebuilt, got two high picks, built around those picks (Kane and Toews) and amassed so much talent in the organization that even after winning a Cup they shipped guys out to create cap space so they can retain their young core and then won more Cups.

Not only did they commit fully to their two high picks, the elite winger (Hossa) they added externally was in SUPPORT of their high picks and young core. They didn't ditch building the right way just to cater to Hossa. They added Campbell to be a veteran presence for their young defensemen.

The Rangers did everything ass backwards. They decided to rebuild, awesome, but then after adding Panarin decided to make him the focal point instead of having him be a supplemental piece like Hawks did with Hossa. Then the Rangers proceeded to snuff out their young forwards their two high picks (Laf and Kakko) and instead placate Panarin.

The Rangers did everything literally the wrong way. Backwards of what's been proven to work and win Cups.

It's not too late now to reverse and try to fix and repair the issues and damage, by committing to Laf and Kakko, Fox, Shesterkin, Miller, Schneider, Jones, Othmann, etc. Make them the core. Make everyone else an expendable supplemental piece. If a pricy vet isn't getting the job done you cut bait with him add picks and prospects and continue stacking the system with talent.

It's mind boggling to me that this concept is so lost when every repeat Stanley Cup Champion has done exactly this.

Rangers never learn. They willingly sacrifice dominance and success with instant gratification, whatever feels good at the moment, drawing attention and making a splash. They aren't committed to excellence and winning.

If Kakko and Lafreniere were Toews and Kane would you be saying this? Panarin would be your Hossa in this scenario. I do agree that the timing was off for Panarin, but if the Rangers don’t flub Lias, Kravtsov, and to a lesser extent Lafreniere, and Kakko then this team would be loaded.

 

[NYR Viper]

I have been somewhat concerned with what happens next season if the Rangers go with Jones and he struggles. I’m in the camp that someone like Lindgren should be used to help backfill cheap youth (picks and prospects) while handing the keys over to others before signing him long term. I’ve mentioned this before but a left side that includes Mikkola and Miller with a young player like Jones, Robertson or Scanlin is one I could get behind. It would also conceivably lead to some much needed cap room.

The issue I see right now is that signing Mikkola means Jones, Robertson and Scanlin are probably in the AHL unless there’s an injury. Now the odds of an injury are high over an 82 game season but still.

I liked what Mikkola brought to the back end. He’s a big guy who actually plays solid defense in and around the net and while his skating is ugly, he gets the job done. If he would take a lower cap hit deal for 3 years I’d seriously consider it. 3 x 1.8-1.9m? He would be a UFA again at 30 and would be doing so at a really good time in terms of cap space for most teams.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don’t think there is a ton of evidence to suggest this. I think this is wishful thinking. The game hasn’t gotten slower, and they need players besides Fox that can do this consistently. I don’t think this is a skill that you can just flip on/off.

No one is saying the game slows down.
Im saying having some type of system should speed everything up from our end.
And knowing where players are moving to, should allow the defense to make cleaner passes.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don’t think there is a ton of evidence to suggest this. I think this is wishful thinking. The game hasn’t gotten slower, and they need players besides Fox that can do this consistently. I don’t think this is a skill that you can just flip on/off.

This is true, but in an ideal world the Rangers centers should be able to help this immensely. In no scenario should a center group with Zibanejad, Chytil and Trochek be as poor at supporting transition as they have been. That’s a system thing.

I’m of the belief that adding someone like Eller or Acciari to that center group as a 4C should be towards the top of the list just for that same fact.

Now of course, adding someone like Jones, should he develop, would help that as well. But so should Schneider, Trouba and Miller improving.

 

[bernmeister]

An ineffective Panarin makes negates the 1-2 punch of having Mika/Kreider on the first line and all the kids on the third. That's what killed us.

Well, a lot of things killed us in the playoffs, but that didn't help.

That depth was massive for Vegas, especially when it was firing on all-cylinders.

And how do we obtain depth?
Most quality we can afford.
And how do we afford?
'by going w/less expensive youth

 

[duhmetreE]

And how do we obtain depth?

by being $20M over the cap.

 

[pld459666]

Come up with three scoring lines and evenly balance them?

Prefer this over the idea of a checking line.

In fact, I'd like to see the 4th line be dangerous offensively as well.

 

[duhmetreE]

at this point, it may be better to just run 12 forwards. Someone gets hurt, so be it ( I added Leshitstain for now ). You need the extra defenseman.

Tank is possible. We need a middle6 RWer. Either a goal scorer or a great forechecker. $3-4M range. Tank, if he were to take $4M would be worth it imo.

 

[NYR Viper]

If the team is up against the cap, just don’t carry an extras. I don’t really understand why every need needs 1-2 extra guys taking up $1.6-2m in cap space. Find guys like Brodzinski, Lockwood, Blidh and Harpur and just waive them. It’s better to keep the cap space or spend it on someone who’s in the lineup more

 

[Savant]

No one is saying the game slows down.
Im saying having some type of system should speed everything up from our end.
And knowing where players are moving to, should allow the defense to make cleaner passes.

Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

There is much more evidence that suggests that we are bad at this than it was a system issue. Yes we know the system was Mid at best, but maybe we ran that system because the skills weren’t there to do otherwise. Would love to be proven otherwise. You’ve got Six, maybe seven D skating at any given night. They need more than one that you know 100% can do better at this. We don’t have that internally unless everything breaks right for Jones; which again we have not seen a lot of evidence of

This is true, but in an ideal world the Rangers centers should be able to help this immensely. In no scenario should a center group with Zibanejad, Chytil and Trochek be as poor at supporting transition as they have been. That’s a system thing.

I’m of the belief that adding someone like Eller or Acciari to that center group as a 4C should be towards the top of the list just for that same fact.

Now of course, adding someone like Jones, should he develop, would help that as well. But so should Schneider, Trouba and Miller improving.

Need to clear cap.

I think it’s more likely that those three Dmen, under Laviolette, improve going backwards than going forward

 

[zlev]

the same people irate at Panarin for sucking at defense want to give Tarasenko $5M aav lol

 

[bernmeister]

by being $20M over the cap.

bold is not possible
if you meant having 20 m available, so we can then figure out what to add -- should be foundation pieces and quality stopgaps that do not restrict us going forward....
that could work

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Trouba as a signing never bothered me.
You don't sign trouba I dont think fox develops the way that he did.
He was a high end D prospect, but trouba definitely helped shelter him initially, eating the tough minutes until he was absolutely dominant that second year.

The contract they gave him was probably about a $1.5-2 million/year overpay plus the NMC. I know it becomes a limited NTC next summer. The contract itself was a NMC clause (who, at that time, was trading for that without retention?) I get he only wanted to play for the Rangers, mostly because of his wife's career.

He's had moments, shielded Fox, but as an individual player, I think more was expected, or maybe I expected more. Is he a top pairing d'man in general? On this team he is, but long term, I think Miller takes over that spot in the near future (this upcoming season or next) to go with Fox.

 

[Barnaby]

I have been somewhat concerned with what happens next season if the Rangers go with Jones and he struggles. I’m in the camp that someone like Lindgren should be used to help backfill cheap youth (picks and prospects) while handing the keys over to others before signing him long term. I’ve mentioned this before but a left side that includes Mikkola and Miller with a young player like Jones, Robertson or Scanlin is one I could get behind. It would also conceivably lead to some much needed cap room.

The issue I see right now is that signing Mikkola means Jones, Robertson and Scanlin are probably in the AHL unless there’s an injury. Now the odds of an injury are high over an 82 game season but still.

I liked what Mikkola brought to the back end. He’s a big guy who actually plays solid defense in and around the net and while his skating is ugly, he gets the job done. If he would take a lower cap hit deal for 3 years I’d seriously consider it. 3 x 1.8-1.9m? He would be a UFA again at 30 and would be doing so at a really good time in terms of cap space for most teams.

Defensemen get paid. Someone will give Mikkola 2.5-3 million. I’d like to keep him but he’ll be priced out…

 

[IDvsEGO]

The contract they gave him was probably about a $1.5-2 million/year overpay plus the NMC. I know it becomes a limited NTC next summer. The contract itself was a NMC clause (who, at that time, was trading for that without retention?) I get he only wanted to play for the Rangers, mostly because of his wife's career.

He's had moments, shielded Fox, but as an individual player, I think more was expected, or maybe I expected more. Is he a top pairing d'man in general? On this team he is, but long term, I think Miller takes over that spot in the near future (this upcoming season or next) to go with Fox.

We’re also judging the deal by a flat cap, when had the cap rose appropriately, trouba’s contract would’ve hit the cap closer to a 5-6m deal in this environment.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

The reason why there are fans against the Trouba signing (and yes he’s a bit overpaid) is because Fox is elite and Schneider was drafted. However neither of those were the case when they traded for Trouba.

 

[haohmaru]

The reason why there are fans against the Trouba signing (and yes he’s a bit overpaid) is because Fox is elite and Schneider was drafted. However neither of those were the case when they traded for Trouba.

And there we have it. Context.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

so he's gonna spend at minimum 4 months separated from his wife and kids?

He is probably gonna spend 2 months of that on the road anyway. You make it sound like they are poor and she can't travel to his games or something.

 

[mike14]

If the team is up against the cap, just don’t carry an extras. I don’t really understand why every need needs 1-2 extra guys taking up $1.6-2m in cap space. Find guys like Brodzinski, Lockwood, Blidh and Harpur and just waive them. It’s better to keep the cap space or spend it on someone who’s in the lineup more

It's so we can all agonize over whether we should swap out bottom line forwards, or the 7th D for the 6th D on any given game night....

 

[bhamill]

That tweet was definitely fake but I would trade Laf for Konecny he’s exactly what we need. 31 goals last year. Only 26 with 2 years left.

I would not do that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't have a problem with Mikkola the player.

I have a problem with Mikkola being thrusted into the middle of how our D is already constructed. We need a puck mover on that bottom pair.

 

[bhamill]

Need a top 6 RW. Konecny fits the core and there’s no “might”. 4 seasons of over 24 goals already

Of course he’s a might. He might score 30 again… or he might not.
Feel like this is a stinker of a trade honestly and I normally am on board with a lot of what you post. But trading Laf to a division rival like the Flyers? Aye yi yi.

 

[IDvsEGO]

He is probably gonna spend 2 months of that on the road anyway. You make it sound like they are poor and she can't travel to his games or something.

Sure but there’s a difference between at most a 9-10 days away from home at a time, and 4 months apart with a few sporadic reunions.

Also with young kids it’s not like she can just fly to every game.

 

[CommaSynapse]

The reason why there are fans against the Trouba signing (and yes he’s a bit overpaid) is because Fox is elite and Schneider was drafted. However neither of those were the case when they traded for Trouba.

Before that we had Pionk, DeAngelo, and Shattenkirk as RD with no prospects of note.

Context is massive in the case of Trouba’s deal.