Speculation: Roster Building Thread VI (2019/2020)

[True Blue]

Why is no one discussing the Hajek-Fox pairing?

Clearly because it is so much fun to argue about why Howden is not a bust yet.

 

[Trxjw]

I can't speak for Machinehead, but all i saw from Howden this pre-season was him looking out of place with better linemates. I didn't see any sort of "gelling" like I did from Lias & Lemiex or Buch & Panarin.

The only things i've seen thus far from Howden, last year or this pre-season, that are truly-NHL quality are his effort & skating

You're hitting on the same thing I want to express to MH though, and that's the fact that training camp encompasses more than just the handful of preseason games we get to watch as fans. The majority of players win a spot on the roster based on their combined performance in games and camp. The coaches aren't making their selections based on a guy playing a total of 15 minutes in 2 preseason contests.

Then you also have to include the previous body of work. I thought Howden deserved time in the AHL last year. He had a hot start, decent finish, and was pretty underwhelming during the bulk of the season. However, clearly he has a larger body of work than Andersson and that influences the coaches decision. If he didn't take that body of work into account, and he based his roster purely on a handful of preseason games, then he ought to be fired on the spot.

 

[Edge]

And those are your good virtues. Are you done giving yourself these platitudes?

Let's bring out Mrs. Edge.

 

[Tawnos]

Well, don't think I'm being dismissive with a short response, it's just that I've beaten it to death.

Yes, coaches IMO take players who are consistently very bad over players who are sometimes good because they value consistency. It's a problem across hockey and for whatever reason, seems to just be a hockey thing. Again, just my opinion.

So you're really not wrong. I just fundamentally disagree with the approach a lot of coaches take and it's far from just a Rangers problem. That doesn't mean I can't ask the Rangers to be better.

You really missed the main point of what I said. I wasn't saying anything about the quality of Howden's play or Chytil's play. A player being further along in their professionalism is theoretically easier to help learn to play in the NHL than one who isn't. Consistency is a part of that, but it's not the only thing. I was just using it as an illustration.

The ability to learn more effectively because you have professional habits isn't the same thing as, say, a coach liking Veseys's shift-to-shift consistency more than Buchnevich's.

 

[Trxjw]

I haven't been to any practices if that's what you're implying but I've never bought into the notion that players who suck during games are doing all of these positive things in practice.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Do I think Howden had some sort of magical practice every day that forced him on to the roster? Of course not. However, I think it'd be incredibly foolish for a coaching staff to base their roster decisions entirely on what transpired in 20-25 minutes spread over the course of 3 or 4 preseason games with mixed linemates and against wildly varying competition.

What these players do day-to-day matters tremendously to coaches. You can choose to ignore that on principle if you like but it doesn't change the reality of it.

 

[kovazub94]

I think “certain” posters genuinely believe in being patient during current rebuild. However their definition of “patience “ only extends to their players staying in the position they think appropriate regardless if they underperform or worse - struggle. Any deviation, i.e. moving down the lines, giving them a game off or two or sending to AH even if it’s a short term or there are other considerations, and there are cries of these players being mishandled and the world is falling apart. Tiresome.

 

[Machinehead]

You really missed the main point of what I said. I wasn't saying anything about the quality of Howden's play or Chytil's play. A player being further along in their professionalism is theoretically easier to help learn to play in the NHL than one who isn't. Consistency is a part of that, but it's not the only thing. I was just using it as an illustration.

The ability to learn more effectively because you have professional habits isn't the same thing as, say, a coach liking Veseys's shift-to-shift consistency more than Buchnevich's.

If Howden had this ability to learn more effectively, maybe we would see some improvement?

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Do I think Howden had some sort of magical practice every day that forced him on to the roster? Of course not. However, I think it'd be incredibly foolish for a coaching staff to base their roster decisions entirely on what transpired in 20-25 minutes spread over the course of 3 or 4 preseason games with mixed linemates and against wildly varying competition.

What these players do day-to-day matters tremendously to coaches. You can choose to ignore that on principle if you like but it doesn't change the reality of it.

At a certain point (and yes, it's still early in his career) it has to manifest in games or it doesn't matter.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Why is no one discussing the Hajek-Fox pairing? Putting two rookies out on defense together is a pretty controversial move, I'd ague more so than the differences between the third and fourth lines.

If anything, I think it says more about Staal than any of the rooks. They need DeAngelo to carry his corpse around the ice.

They'd rather pair Fox with a fellow rookie than tie him to the anvil that is Marc Staal.

 

[Tawnos]

If Howden had this ability to learn more effectively, maybe we would see some improvement?

He's a sophomore. Maybe we will!

 

[Trxjw]

At a certain point (and yes, it's still early in his career) it has to manifest in games or it doesn't matter.

I completely agree with you there. However, this chapter in his career is about trying to develop him as a player, not about measuring him against his possible ceiling. The same holds true for Chytil, Andersson, and all of the other kids in the pipeline. It's about finding the right position for a kid to develop successfully.

 

[Leetch3]

Why is no one discussing the Hajek-Fox pairing? Putting two rookies out on defense together is a pretty controversial move, I'd ague more so than the differences between the third and fourth lines.

obviously there is risk in playing 2 rookies together and it needs to be monitored if they struggle or if they aren't getting enough ice time cause quinn is riding the top 4. but I see nothing controversial about it and think that they played well enough together in the preseason that I'll wait to watch them play in real games before having an overreaction...

IMO you basically have 3 options here...option 1 is to play 2 rookies together on the 3rd pair....option 2 is to mix up the pairings and force at least 1 of the rookies to play top 4 minutes and face top opponents which is infinitely more controversial and concerning than 3rd pair minutes...option 3 is to only have 1 rookie blueliner and play smith, which unless its done because the rookies struggle is a simply terrible idea for a rebuilding team...

so yes option 1 comes with its risks, but its still the best option we have.

 

[Ola]

If there is anyone on this board who is willing and able to have a civil discussion without going up hyperbole mountain, it is @Edge.

It is impossible to disagree with this. The guy has patience that would make Dalai Lama look like an ADHD kid on speed. He is in the right field of work for sure.

 

[Savant]

To early to talk about pairings. Give it a week or two. See what works, what doesn’t. Reset accordingly.

Rangers are probably not a playoff team. They have time to figure stuff out.

 

[Fitzy]

I just sort of assumed that we'd see Hajek with DeAngelo and Fox with Staal.

In any event, it will be interesting to see what pairings get what proportion of zone starts.

Another matter is the pk pairings. Skjei- Trouba and then likely Staal-Fox

Will both DeAngelo and Fox play on the 2nd pp unit, or just one?

Special teams tends to be the biggest factor in blueliners ice time.

 

[Ola]

I just sort of assumed that we'd see Hajek with DeAngelo and Fox with Staal.

In any event, it will be interesting to see what pairings get what proportion of zone starts.

Another matter is the pk pairings. Skjei- Trouba and then likely Staal-Fox

Will both DeAngelo and Fox play on the 2nd pp unit, or just one?

Special teams tends to be the biggest factor in blueliners ice time.

I would guess that TDA is a PK option over Fox and that Staal is a PK option over Hajak, and then it makes a lot of sense to play them together 5 on 5 since the pairings wouldn’t be messed up.

 

[Fitzy]

I would guess that TDA is a PK option over Fox and that Staal is a PK option over Hajak, and then it makes a lot of sense to play them together 5 on 5 since the pairings wouldn’t be messed up.

Could be. In which case Fox better see PP time or he's only going to be playing 11-12 minutes a game.

 

[Alluckks]

Some people just don't like others critiquing their personal diary of complaints

 

[SA16]

Could be. In which case Fox better see PP time or he's only going to be playing 11-12 minutes a game.

They didn't have a defenseman play under 14:48 5v5/game last year. I don't think that's a concern. Fox will probably start out in the 16-17 minute range.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Not a fan. This is a "Devil you know" choice.

Better him than Staal.

 

[Machinehead]

Better him than Staal.

Staal will be there anyway, probably on the first unit.

 

[Edge]

I just sort of assumed that we'd see Hajek with DeAngelo and Fox with Staal.

In any event, it will be interesting to see what pairings get what proportion of zone starts.

Another matter is the pk pairings. Skjei- Trouba and then likely Staal-Fox

Will both DeAngelo and Fox play on the 2nd pp unit, or just one?

Special teams tends to be the biggest factor in blueliners ice time.

Deploy our secret defensive weapons: a pair of gingers.

 

[Irishguy42]

Staal will be there anyway, probably on the first unit.

First unit looks to be Skjei-Trouba-Mika-Lias

Damn Skjei with a name that doesn't end in 'a' but at least it sounds like an 'a'

 

[leetch99]

My God guys; Steve Larmer and Tie Domi!

As the clock ticked down to 0 in the 7th game against Vancouver, there was Larmer finishing his check like he always did. My kind of player

A stint in the minors never stunted Larmer's career....I'm glad we sent a couple of the kids to the AHL . Hopefully they play a lot and have some guys watching out for them down there .

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Staal will be there anyway, probably on the first unit.

Don't you ever give it a rest?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Deploy our secret defensive weapons: a pair of gingers.

Diabolical.