Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXXVII

[kinger8998]

Using the logic of can't sign Strome because we need the money for future extensions but then taking all of that or most of it and giving it to Copp is counterintuitive.

Lets not forget, before this season Copp was a 3rd line centre, and a good one at that. And on a championship team, no matter how good he was this season or when he came here at deadline, hes still a 3rd line centre. You don't pay them $5M+. I love the player, but you need to let him go for the same reasons you're letting Strome go - even if they are different players.

I'm well aware they are very different players and Copps strengths (Stromes weaknesses) are some of what we need, but if I'm NYR I'm looking to add 1-year solutions or young cost controlled players. To help immediately but leave room to resign Chytil, Lafreniere and Miller.

Wonder if NYR don't look at Lundkvist for Cody Glass. Not sure if he's still got potential, just remember him as a high pick that showed well during first stint in Vegas but as team got better he didn't fit in C group. Was in AHL this year at points. Only 1 year older than Lundkvist. Hes young, cost controlled, and may reclaim some of the 6th overall pick potential if given a chance

Think: veteran centre options that act as a failsafe if Chytil can't handle 2C full time. Paul Statsny maybe?

Think: depth defender options if Zac Jones isn't ready for full time top6 (I think he is)

Think: someone who could fit on a 3rd line with Kravtsov and Blais.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil/FA/Trade-Lafreniere
Blais-Chytil/FA/Trade-Kravtsov
Motte/FA/Trade/Rydahl-Goodrow-Reaves
Hunt

Lindy-Fox
Miller-Schneider/Trouba
Jones/FA-Schneider-Trouba
Jones/FA

Igor
FA signing

 

[Beer League Sniper]

The schism between faceoffs and advanced stats is funny to me because it really just boils down to semantics and an old misnomer.

Back in the infancy of advanced stats, we used to refer to corsi as "possession stats." You have to have the puck to shoot it. Having the puck is good. We use shooting as a proxy for having it. Sound logic. Faceoffs literally get you possession so there's a connection there. Also sound logic. When advanced stats proponents began to deny this connection, people were understandably confused.

These days, we're kind of moving away from shooting being a proxy for possession for two reasons:

1) Possession is starting to be tracked. ESPN had a running zone time thing going for the playoffs. If you take ESPN's word for it, holy shit it REALLY did not match shots and expected goals a lot of the time. You have to have it to shoot it, but it turns out a lot of the time, teams have it and don't shoot it.

2) More importantly, eight years ago we thought corsi was good because it's possession. Now we think corsi is good because it's corsi. Possession doesn't really matter. It was always actually the shooting that's good, that's kind of the way the understanding of these metrics has developed. So calling it "possession" is a misnomer. It's shooting, and shooting is the part that matters.

You still have to have it to shoot it, yes, and faceoffs can influence shooting to an extent, but you can see how the connection is more disjointed than faceoffs and straight possession.

It's not one or the other -- they're just not as related as we used to think they were.

And yes, you can do both. I think our biggest need to improve 5v5 flow of the game is a traditional center. Taking faceoffs is literally the defining trait of traditional centers.

I don't have access to the stats, but logically, I'd think better faceoff numbers would mean more opportunity for set plays, which I think we were actually good at. Also, I'd think there's a correlation between winning D zone draws and empty net scoring, something we haven't been very good at by my estimation.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Dont know if this has been speculated. But what do you think the odds are drury takes a run at colin blackwell instead of tyler motte?

 

[rangers1314]

When it comes to FO's, there is a difference of "having a faceoff and not gaining possession", which counts as a loss, and clean, quick losses. Those are the one's that really matter and can kill you.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Using the logic of can't sign Strome because we need the money for future extensions but then taking all of that or most of it and giving it to Copp is counterintuitive.

Lets not forget, before this season Copp was a 3rd line centre, and a good one at that. And on a championship team, no matter how good he was this season or when he came here at deadline, hes still a 3rd line centre. You don't pay them $5M+. I love the player, but you need to let him go for the same reasons you're letting Strome go - even if they are different players.

I'm well aware they are very different players and Copps strengths (Stromes weaknesses) are some of what we need, but if I'm NYR I'm looking to add 1-year solutions or young cost controlled players. To help immediately but leave room to resign Chytil, Lafreniere and Miller.

Wonder if NYR don't look at Lundkvist for Cody Glass. Not sure if he's still got potential, just remember him as a high pick that showed well during first stint in Vegas but as team got better he didn't fit in C group. Was in AHL this year at points. Only 1 year older than Lundkvist. Hes young, cost controlled, and may reclaim some of the 6th overall pick potential if given a chance

Think: veteran centre options that act as a failsafe if Chytil can't handle 2C full time. Paul Statsny maybe?

Think: depth defender options if Zac Jones isn't ready for full time top6 (I think he is)

Think: someone who could fit on a 3rd line with Kravtsov and Blais.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil/FA/Trade-Lafreniere
Blais-Chytil/FA/Trade-Kravtsov
Motte/FA/Trade/Rydahl-Goodrow-Reaves
Hunt

Lindy-Fox
Miller-Schneider/Trouba
Jones/FA-Schneider-Trouba
Jones/FA

Igor
FA signing

Personally I think the move is to not sign strome or copp and trade for a center at the deadline.
Kreider-zib-kakko
Panarin-chytil-laf
Blais-goodrow-kravtsov
Blackwell-rooney-reaves/cuyll/hunt

 

[Avery16]

Dont know if this has been speculated. But what do you think the odds are drury takes a run at colin blackwell instead of tyler motte?

I’d rather we keep Vatrano over Motte and/or Blackwell.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

I’d rather we keep Vatrano over Motte and/or Blackwell.

So would i but dont know if its affordable

 

[Avery16]

So would i but dont know if its affordable

If he’s as smart as he is fast, he’ll take less to continue shifting with Zib and Kreider

 

[bbny]

Dont know if this has been speculated. But what do you think the odds are drury takes a run at colin blackwell instead of tyler motte?

Next to zero

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Will be interesting to see how things play out this summer. Vatrano and Copp both said they feel like they have unfinished business here. They and their agents know the Rangers cap situation.

I wonder if they take 1 year team friendly type deals. Look for something longer the following summer. Odds are very slim, but who knows stranger things have happened.

 

[Off Sides]

I would not be surprised if they brought in someone like Blackwell or he himself.

The players they added in the off-season, and at the deadline all are hard working, leave it all on the ice type players. None are supremely talented, and if we are being honest they overpaid for some of them, yet there seems to be a theme happening.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I would not be surprised if they brought in someone like Blackwell or he himself.

The players they added in the off-season, and at the deadline all are hard working, leave it all on the ice type players. None are supremely talented, and if we are being honest they overpaid for some of them, yet there seems to be a theme happening.

I guess in the end they overpaid for Copp giving up a 1st and a 2nd but he also nearly scored at a PPG and was very good until getting injured late in the season. They got Vatrano and Motte for 4th round picks and Braun for a 3rd. Drury did very well adding to this roster.

 

[Captain Monglobster]

I think the most logical thing for Drury to do given the cap situation and lack of a capt is to come out of retirement on a $1 contract and give himself the C. Guy is a proven winner and always has a great weekend.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Using the logic of can't sign Strome because we need the money for future extensions but then taking all of that or most of it and giving it to Copp is counterintuitive.

Lets not forget, before this season Copp was a 3rd line centre, and a good one at that. And on a championship team, no matter how good he was this season or when he came here at deadline, hes still a 3rd line centre. You don't pay them $5M+. I love the player, but you need to let him go for the same reasons you're letting Strome go - even if they are different players.

I'm well aware they are very different players and Copps strengths (Stromes weaknesses) are some of what we need, but if I'm NYR I'm looking to add 1-year solutions or young cost controlled players. To help immediately but leave room to resign Chytil, Lafreniere and Miller.

Wonder if NYR don't look at Lundkvist for Cody Glass. Not sure if he's still got potential, just remember him as a high pick that showed well during first stint in Vegas but as team got better he didn't fit in C group. Was in AHL this year at points. Only 1 year older than Lundkvist. Hes young, cost controlled, and may reclaim some of the 6th overall pick potential if given a chance

Think: veteran centre options that act as a failsafe if Chytil can't handle 2C full time. Paul Statsny maybe?

Think: depth defender options if Zac Jones isn't ready for full time top6 (I think he is)

Think: someone who could fit on a 3rd line with Kravtsov and Blais.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil/FA/Trade-Lafreniere
Blais-Chytil/FA/Trade-Kravtsov
Motte/FA/Trade/Rydahl-Goodrow-Reaves
Hunt

Lindy-Fox
Miller-Schneider/Trouba
Jones/FA-Schneider-Trouba
Jones/FA

Igor
FA signing

I think this is close to what we’ll see, no big money moves. I expect us to squeeze any asset we can at the draft out of Georgie, Goat, and Hajek and try to dump Nemeth to save a mil on a cheaper option like even Braun. I think we trade Lundkvist for a Kupari type 3C now with 2C ceiling kinda player. This leaves Goodrow as a line floater especially if VK and Othmann aren’t ready. Would love to see Motte resigned and depth like Rydahl to move Hunt and Reeves out regularly. Assuming Nemeth/Braun swap, back up G at 1.25-1.5, and Kakko getting about 3.5. This leaves us with approx 2.5 mil in cap and with 13F. On deck we have Fs Othmann, Krat, Cuylle, Berard and D Robertson

 

[Off Sides]

I guess in the end they overpaid for Copp giving up a 1st and a 2nd but he also nearly scored at a PPG and was very good until getting injured late in the season. They got Vatrano and Motte for 4th round picks and Braun for a 3rd. Drury did very well adding to this roster.

Overpaying, I mean in terms of the Buch trade, the Goodrow cap hit, the Reaves extension, and if they extend Copp, Motte, Vatrano, Braun. Nemeth too sticks out.

 

[mas0764]

Personally I think the move is to not sign strome or copp and trade for a center at the deadline.
Kreider-zib-kakko
Panarin-chytil-laf
Blais-goodrow-kravtsov
Blackwell-rooney-reaves/cuyll/hunt

Trading for someone at the deadline is almost always a value loss proposition.

If you want a center make it a young long term one and do it now.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Trading for someone at the deadline is almost always a value loss proposition.

If you want a center make it a young long term one and do it now.

We here often over value what it costs to get players at the deadline. Its also cap efficient to do so at the deadline. Better quality team for playoffs if done this way

 

[mas0764]

We here often over value what it costs to get players at the deadline. Its also cap efficient to do so at the deadline. Better quality team for playoffs if done this way

But at a sacrifice of greater long term value than what you get.

If Copp walks, we basically got 20 playoff games for a first and second round pick. A Brennan Othmann is worth way more than that.

Not every late first rounder will be Othmann or Nils but we have a pretty solid first round drafting track record of at least getting solid players.

For a team that is NOT done building for it's future yet as it needs substantially more talent at forward still, it stings. Survivable yes, but you can't keep doing this every deadline.

 

[Fitzy]

The way to incorporate Jones is to spread the D pairs out.

Miller-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Lindgren-Schneider

Trouba has made every defenseman he played with more comfortable and better except Lindgren.

 

[mas0764]

The way to incorporate Jones is to spread the D pairs out.

Miller-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Lindgren-Schneider

Trouba has made every defenseman he played with more comfortable and better except Lindgren.

Miller-Fox is our top pair for the next decade so might as well kick that off starting now.

I like Trouba tutoring Jones or whoever (Robertson, Nils) takes that spot next season.

And Lindgren is a good veteran to pair with Schneider.

 

[McRanger92]

Nils Lundkvist for Jack Drury. Who says no?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I feel like this can’t possibly be right, Strome is going to be looking for a longer deal and higher AAV than that

If it’s Copp, you’re likely looking at a five- to six-year deal at around $5.5 million per; Strome is probably four or five years at a slightly lower number, but not that much less.

 

[Lays]

The way to incorporate Jones is to spread the D pairs out.

Miller-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Lindgren-Schneider

Trouba has made every defenseman he played with more comfortable and better except Lindgren.

Lindgren-Fox aren’t being split up, certainly not to put Zac Jones in the top 4. Lines and pairs will stay the same next season except Jones will be in Braun’s spot

 

[rangers1314]

I feel like this can’t possibly be right, Strome is going to be looking for a longer deal and higher AAV than that

Strome is going look for a higher AAV than Copp.

Strome is a Center and Centers get paid in UFA. Copp is a RW who can take FO's and play Center in a pinch, but his last 2 teams have played him on the RW.

Marek touched on this yesterday. Copp will be looking for a 6-7 year deal at the ~5.5AAV number. Someome out there will give Strome a higher AAV than that. Seattle comes to mind.

 

[bl02]

Where did you read that?

The post Molly I believe