Salary Cap: Roster-building thread Part XXXVII : Why can't we always play like that?

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joeyjake5

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Feb 23, 2014
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Because he has no trade value, isn't expensive enough to warrant a buyout, and is still signed through next season.

I'm with you though, anything with Lovejoy in the top 6 is an issue. Bury that guy in the press box as the 7th.

With LJ, you waive him and if he clears you send him to W-B. If pens can't find a better option, then this team is in a real, real bad state. You have to get rid of your mistakes and the same goes for scuds.

Proof, dumo and chorney are better options than scuds or LJ for next year.
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
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Why do so many rosters continue to have Lovejoy on them? If he's on your roster it automatically sucks.

He's fine as a #6. And I think he's a good guy to pair with a young guy like Pouliot or Dumoulin.

The trade sucks and Lovejoy is playing a bigger role than he can handle but let's not kid ourselves, he's still a serviceable player.
 

JackFr

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Jun 18, 2010
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The Penguins need to get younger, cheaper, and less mercenary. I wish I could get this lineup out of my head because it will never happen in a million years. Just imagine how nice it would be to put together this lineup next season:

Panarin (3.7) - Crosby (8.7) - Hornqvist (4.25)
Perron (3.8) - Malkin (9.5) - Kassian (1.75)
Winnik (2) - Sobotka (2.7) - Tikhonov (1.75)
Sundqvist (0.7) - Lapierre (1.45) - Farnham (0.5)
Rust (0.7)

Maatta (0.9) - Letang (7.25)
Cole (1.5) - Petry (5)
Pouliot (0.9) - Lovejoy (1.1)

Fleury (5.75)
Whoever (0.8)

Cap hit: 64,000,000
Salary cap: 70,000,000
Cap space: 6,000,000

Kunitz for a 3rd
Sutter for a 2nd
Scuderi for a 7th
Spaling for who cares
Comeau, Downie, Greiss, Martin, Ehrhoff gone.
Duper retires and becomes Crosby's personal motivator.

Trade 3rd to STL for Sobotka
Trade Bennett+ to VAN for Kassian
Sign Petry (to fill the 3D hole), and Winnik (only for the PK and because we gave up so much for him)
Sign Panarin and Tikhonov

Any problems that arise, we'll have flexibility because of the 6 million dollars in cap space that appeared simply by cutting all the garbage off the roster. If Kassian isn't the answer in the top six, get Malkin a RW. If Kapanen looks ready, put him with Geno and bump down Kassian and Tikhonov.

Looks like this one will have to remain forever in NHL 15.
 

Neko87

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Mar 31, 2014
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Lucic 6 -- Crosby 8.7-- Hornqvist 4.25
Belesky 5 -- Malkin 9.5 -- Panarin .95
Comeau 2.5 -- Matthais 2.75 -- Winnik 2.25
Spaling 2 -- Lappiere 1 -- Rust/Farnham/Wilson .65

Forwards: 45.55

Letang 7.25 --Maatta .895
Cole 1.25 --Franson 6
Lovejoy 1.1 -- Dumoulin .89

D: 17.385

Flower 5
Zatkoff .6

Goalies: 5.6

Total: 68.535

Trade Sutter, Bennett, Pouliot for Lucic

LTIR Dupuis

Trade Kunitz/Scuderi for pucks.
 

BigBenSF*

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Seeing Kassian, then Lucic in consecutive roster posts almost gave me a stroke
 

JackFr

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Jun 18, 2010
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Seeing Kassian, then Lucic in consecutive roster posts almost gave me a stroke

Lucic is one thing, considering how much he makes, but Kassian is cheap and tough and won't cripple us to acquire. Definitely a much safer option than, say throwing 5 million dollars at Beleskey, who every Ducks fan says is not remotely worth that money and who we know for sure is not a long-term top 6 option.
 

BigBenSF*

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Lucic is one thing, considering how much he makes, but Kassian is cheap and tough and won't cripple us to acquire. Definitely a much safer option than, say throwing 5 million dollars at Beleskey, who every Ducks fan says is not remotely worth that money and who we know for sure is not a long-term top 6 option.

Two wrongs don't make a right re: Kassian/Beleskey. Kassian, while big, doesn't play big, and is lacking possession-wise. Bennett has played well in the past with Malkin, and I'd rather put him at 2RW than Kassian. Other than that, pretty solid roster (I would also keep Spaling and just play him at 3C)
 

lastcupever75

Phive cups PA.
May 14, 2009
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are the bruins trying to shed salary making lucic available? if so, maybe the price to acquire him would be less then we think.

I would also look into the hawks situation with the cap. maybe Bryan Bickell becomes available
 

JackFr

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Jun 18, 2010
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Two wrongs don't make a right re: Kassian/Beleskey. Kassian, while big, doesn't play big, and is lacking possession-wise. Bennett has played well in the past with Malkin, and I'd rather put him at 2RW than Kassian. Other than that, pretty solid roster (I would also keep Spaling and just play him at 3C)

My only worry with Bennett on Malkin's line is that Perron - Malkin - Bennett is an extremely soft line with no one to do any dirty work around the net. Perron doesn't fit Crosby so unless we want him on the third line we need someone who can give Malkin and Perron the space to be creative. That's not necessarily Kassian, but he's not a terrible option there.

Spaling at 3C is also not a bad option, and the difference between him and Sobotka might be less than the trouble it would take to get him. It's the Matthias and Beleskey people who really worry me because all indications point to Matthias being a worse, even less physical version of Sutter. Beleskey is clearly having a nice UFA year and is not a guy who deserves remotely the amount of money people are throwing at him.

The fascination with guys like Beleskey and Matthias contradicts so much with how much this board emphasizes not spending way too much money on FAs. Those two guys are prime examples of the kinds of players whose contracts will immediately look terrible. We would hate those guys within 10 games, and they would handcuff us for good from getting real top 6 forwards. Are we ready to admit that Malkin's endgame LW is Matt freaking Beleskey?
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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My only worry with Bennett on Malkin's line is that Perron - Malkin - Bennett is an extremely soft line with no one to do any dirty work around the net. Perron doesn't fit Crosby so unless we want him on the third line we need someone who can give Malkin and Perron the space to be creative. That's not necessarily Kassian, but he's not a terrible option there.

Spaling at 3C is also not a bad option, and the difference between him and Sobotka might be less than the trouble it would take to get him. It's the Matthias and Beleskey people who really worry me because all indications point to Matthias being a worse, even less physical version of Sutter. Beleskey is clearly having a nice UFA year and is not a guy who deserves remotely the amount of money people are throwing at him.

The fascination with guys like Beleskey and Matthias contradicts so much with how much this board emphasizes not spending way too much money on FAs. Those two guys are prime examples of the kinds of players whose contracts will immediately look terrible. We would hate those guys within 10 games, and they would handcuff us for good from getting real top 6 forwards. Are we ready to admit that Malkin's endgame LW is Matt freaking Beleskey?

I want to see a Bickell- Malkin - Perron line
 

BADoglick

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Jun 12, 2012
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We absolutely have to get more physical. Having four people standing around doing nothing while Fleury got molested was awful. We have cap space this offseason, and if we buy out Scuderi, Dupuis retires and we trade Kunitz, we'll have 10 more million in cap space. A trade proposal I would like is to Anaheim, Kunitz and Bennett for Etem and Nicolas Kerdiles. Two former first round picks swap, Etem more of a net front guy, which we would prefer. Bennett is a local Cali kid who could provide some young skill. Kunitz gives them a veteran winger who used to play for them, Kerdiles is a former 2nd round pick who is almost ready to play in the NHL and plays a very solid 2 way game. I like Bennett, but I don't see him as fit here. He has never produced up to his potential, the coaches don't seem to love him, might as well get another young winger for him who may fit out system better instead of trading him for Mark Letestu, like you know JR wants to, or letting him continue to rot here as per status quo.

You know what is a good indicator of whether we want a player or not? Check the message boards of the teams those players are on. Cody Franson for instance, I am doing a complete 180 on. You know who is going to probably available, and is lauded for their physical play? Jeff Petry and Adam McQuaid. They would be cheaper than Scuderi, Martin, and Erhoff combined by far, even if we overpay for them. Petry, 5 years for 5.25 each would be reasonable and enough to attract him to play for us, I'd think. I would offer McQuaid up to 3 per for up to four years. I think they would set our #3 and #5 defenseman spots in stone for years. Letang and Maata taking up the top 2 spots; Cole, Lovejoy, Dumoulin, Pouliot, Harrington and hell even Chorney can compete for the #4, #6, and #7 spots.

As much as the fans want to complain about getting scoring wingers for Geno and Sid, the Pens biggest problem is their lack of effort and ability in clearing the crease on d, followed by their lack of grit and energy provided by their third and fourth lines. Petry isn't considered a beast or anything, but he'll certainly be more well rounded and tougher than Martin or Erhoff. McQuaid someone we absolutely need though. We have no one that is willing to fight and clear the paint, and prevent ugly goals like the game loser in ot last night.

As far as forwards, I'd really like Michael Frolik. Jets fans love him, too. His possession numbers are very solid. He will probably get a boost from his 3.3, but I'd be willing to go up to 4.5 per for 5 years. Belesky should also be getting a huge raise, I would also expect 4.5 mil for 5 for him. But he is a well rounded scorer who can hit. That's what we need up front.

As far as the bottom six....I for am in favor of keeping Sutter for a reasonable amount. He can score goals, short handed ones at that, and kill penalties. Yes, he is kind of soft on the boards. But he does have plenty of skill. We need wingers who can play tough on the boards for him and spring him with more chances. Spaling doesn't do that. Winnik doesn't do that. Neither does Comeau. Downie I do like, just more as a 4th than 3rd liner. Bennett has been too soft with Sutter. Instead of thinking of Sutter as a problem, we should looking at how to maximize his contributions while minimizing his deficiencies. We do that by signing grittier third and fourth liners. Rust, Farnham, and Sundqvist should all be given chances to compete. We may be stuck with Spaling for the year. But we need to target at least 2-3 bottom six type forwards with character, grit, and speed. If we trade for Etem like I mentioned earlier, he could replace Bennett on the third. While not a physical player, he's certainly at least a slight upgrade in that department. I also would want Sean Bergenheim. Minnesota has been burying him, so we may be able to get him as a discounted price. But his possession numbers have always been outstanding. I'd prefer him over resigning Winnik, I'd say.

So anyways, my final roster is:
Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist: With more experience together, hopefully improvement comes.
Belesky-Malkin-Frolik: Finally get Malkin two wingers again, total cost: 9 mil but should be a huge improvement.
Bergenheim-Sutter-Etem: Replacing Winnik and Bennett with Bergenheim and Etem. May be rotating similar chairs, but the previous two haven't been working out so a mix up is in order.
Sundqvist/Rust/Farnham-Spaling-Downie: Give the young guys a chance, hopefully they play with an edge. Spaling, while mediocre, can tie it all together.

Letang-Maata: Need to stay healthy, could be best pairing in the league.
Petry-Pouliot/Lovejoy: Lovejoy may be trusted more earlier on, but Pouliot should really grow into the number four role this year. His offense needs to take over some games.
McQuaid-Cole: There are plenty of young guys waiting to fill in too, but this is what I start the year with. I've liked Cole as a bottom pairing guy so far, and McQuaid adds the toughness we need and can play a PK role as well.
 

Shwag33

Registered User
May 27, 2008
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I see lucic, he's a guy we certainly don't want. He's already slowed down and doesnt play nearly as hard as he used to.


He wouldn't help sid or geno nearly as much as some would think, at least compared to his salary.
 

PensFreak

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Jun 5, 2007
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I see lucic, he's a guy we certainly don't want. He's already slowed down and doesnt play nearly as hard as he used to.


He wouldn't help sid or geno nearly as much as some would think, at least compared to his salary.

If the Pens traded Pouliot, Bennett, and Sutter for him... geez. I may hang myself from Mario's statue.
 

themethod7

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Jan 25, 2013
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I see lucic, he's a guy we certainly don't want. He's already slowed down and doesnt play nearly as hard as he used to.


He wouldn't help sid or geno nearly as much as some would think, at least compared to his salary.

He's only 26 and had a down year, and he knows it:

"It was hard on me at the start," Lucic said. "It was. I shouldn't have let it be as hard on me as it was. I was mad, I was angry, I was bitter we lost, everything just piled up into one big thing. It took me too long to get over it is the best way to put it."

He added, "That's one thing I have to get better at when I come back next season is to find that again, that physicality and that presence and that force that I'm known to bring."

Only 1 year left on his deal, so if we shed salary in the form of Kunitz/Scuderi/Sutter(?) then I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in, if the price is right. On that front, with Chiarelli getting canned and the team in cap trouble, you could be looking at a new GM who wants to come in and clean house, so who knows what return they'd be looking for.
 

Shwag33

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May 27, 2008
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He's only 26 and had a down year, and he knows it:



Only 1 year left on his deal, so if we shed salary in the form of Kunitz/Scuderi/Sutter(?) then I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him in, if the price is right. On that front, with Chiarelli getting canned and the team in cap trouble, you could be looking at a new GM who wants to come in and clean house, so who knows what return they'd be looking for.



Trading more assets for a guy who's beyond overrated. Sounds like he'd fit perfectly on this team. :shakehead Sure would I take him on them for free with 1 year/6mill left absolutely, but thats not reality. Lucic would further the problem we have going on in pittsburgh.


Sounds nationalist, but we need more swedes/fins. Something about their mentality; maybe i'm just singling out a bunch of players in my head from around the league that I love the way they play and their mental makeup.
 

Kshahdoo

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Mar 23, 2008
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The Penguins need to get younger, cheaper, and less mercenary. I wish I could get this lineup out of my head because it will never happen in a million years. Just imagine how nice it would be to put together this lineup next season:

Panarin (3.7) - Crosby (8.7) - Hornqvist (4.25)
Perron (3.8) - Malkin (9.5) - Kassian (1.75)
Winnik (2) - Sobotka (2.7) - Tikhonov (1.75)
Sundqvist (0.7) - Lapierre (1.45) - Farnham (0.5)
Rust (0.7)

Maatta (0.9) - Letang (7.25)
Cole (1.5) - Petry (5)
Pouliot (0.9) - Lovejoy (1.1)

Fleury (5.75)
Whoever (0.8)

Cap hit: 64,000,000
Salary cap: 70,000,000
Cap space: 6,000,000

Kunitz for a 3rd
Sutter for a 2nd
Scuderi for a 7th
Spaling for who cares
Comeau, Downie, Greiss, Martin, Ehrhoff gone.
Duper retires and becomes Crosby's personal motivator.

Trade 3rd to STL for Sobotka
Trade Bennett+ to VAN for Kassian
Sign Petry (to fill the 3D hole), and Winnik (only for the PK and because we gave up so much for him)
Sign Panarin and Tikhonov

Any problems that arise, we'll have flexibility because of the 6 million dollars in cap space that appeared simply by cutting all the garbage off the roster. If Kassian isn't the answer in the top six, get Malkin a RW. If Kapanen looks ready, put him with Geno and bump down Kassian and Tikhonov.

Looks like this one will have to remain forever in NHL 15.

Yeah, I hope Panarin will chose NHL and Pens, but you can't give him more than 2 year ELC.
 

joeyjake5

Registered User
Feb 23, 2014
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The only trades that the pens will make are going to be similar to the #47 trade, the pens will be taken and on the short-end. As long as Lem has any say in the decision making, don't look for any improvements. I wonder if Larouche has any input in the pen's decision making since he seems almost always Lem's right shoulder.
 

Jacob

as seen on TV
Feb 27, 2002
49,723
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Boston might be forced to dump player for cap space but Lucic would probably be far down the list, and they would probably trade him to the West even if it meant less of a return.

Chicago needs to dump salary also and Bickell seems like a likely candidate to be moved. He's never, ever produced like a top-6 player in the regular season though so I'd be hesitant on that front. You might be able to get Chris Stewart for a similar cap hit, without giving up assets, and he has a better track record (at least in the regular season).
 

joeyjake5

Registered User
Feb 23, 2014
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Here are the two big minuses for JR, the #47 trade and not buying out scuds last June. Why do you the pen's can't score when scuds is on the ice. It happened last and this years playoffs. When he is on the ice, the pens are simply playing shorthanded and the opposition knows it.

And one big plus. Not resigning Erhoff. In January, everyone thought Erhoff would be resigned. Whether Erhoff wanted more or Maybe JR just said no. Whether this was dumb luck or not, thank God that he wasn't given a new contract. But think where the cap would be for next year if Erhoff was signed. This would be another scuds signing.
 

The Old Master

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Sep 27, 2004
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And one big plus. Not resigning Erhoff. In January, everyone thought Erhoff would be resigned. Whether Erhoff wanted more or Maybe JR just said no. Whether this was dumb luck or not, thank God that he wasn't given a new contract. But think where the cap would be for next year if Erhoff was signed. This would be another scuds signing.

I wouldn't mind bring him back for a yr......or maybe signing him for a little longer term as long as we could move him. just for insures purpose's if one or more of the kids aren't ready. imo and if the kids look good, trade him for something
 

SidDidNothingWrong

Beau's IcedCapp
Jan 2, 2014
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We absolutely have to get more physical. Having four people standing around doing nothing while Fleury got molested was awful.

I am surprised no one is making that big of a deal about this. If that was our team in front of Lundqvist in overtime, Crosby probably would have gotten popped in the head and the play would have been over. And yet, we still don't want to get any tougher.
When will Mario figure it out?
 
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