Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[Matt4776]

Pfft. You didn't die when we gave Matt Gilroy 1.75m with a much lower cap.

That was before my join date .

Also, to be fair, we (or maybe just I, as someone who wasn't super in-tune with the hockey prospect world yet) thought we'd be getting better performance out off the Hobey Baker winner.

 

[Matt4776]

So if they trade Kreider and don’t sign Panarin you are ok w the top 6 of all kids and Zib cause that’s what it is no ?

We still have guys like Namestnikov.etc or other short-term UFAs we could sign that could fill those spots.

Trading Kreider and not signing Panarin doesn't mean we haev to purposefully devoid the team of veterans. We just want to avoid 6-7 year deals for guys approaching 30.

 

[NernieBichols]

Better than all of them except MacKinnon, McDavid, Eichel, Matthews and maybe Laine.

On par with Barkov and Draisaitl and perhaps Laine.

Cuz you know

 

[NernieBichols]

Big pass. A talented defenseman, sure. But cannot stay on the ice and would require a big pay day. Also, IMO, he is NOT ready to be THE man. He isn't that in Winnipeg and bringing him here and paying him to be something that he is not smells like Shattenkirk, but more years and more dollars.

Played 82 this year.

 

[Vitto79]

We still have guys like Namestnikov.etc or other short-term UFAs we could sign that could fill those spots.

Trading Kreider and not signing Panarin doesn't mean we haev to purposefully devoid the team of veterans. We just want to avoid 6-7 year deals for guys approaching 30.

Guess I’d need to see the Kreider deal then who they sign

I can understand being scared about a crappy deal but Kreider I think stays good into his early 30s

 

[Ori]

Yes what is @Matt4776 said is important, because I think too many get too excited for Jack Hughes or Kakko, but as I mention in probably in another topic a while ago, or maybe it was in a trade topic and Rangers is not competing yet. The Hockey guy thought they are going to improve their defense, but we lack top 6 options while moving both Hayes & Zucc as well.

The question will be answered in this summer window where Jeff Gorton is in our current rebuild schedule/plan, because we have 2 options: A. Sign a top 6 player UFA and upgrade our current defense with a top #4 pair defender prospect at the same time in an attempt to get into playoffs. B. Move Kreider to avoid a 5-6 years contract when they are close to 30 years old and continue the rebuild plan into 2020 season and draft year which is a very strong draft.

 

[Beacon]

We lost to LA in 2014 because of the Jessiman pick. If we had gotten our elite franchise forward in that draft such as Parise, Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Richards or Bergeron things play out a whole lot different.

That series win over Atlanta (in 2007 btw) had nothing to do with it except laying the ground work for what was to come with guys like Girardi and Callahan establishing themselves.

If we had more prospects, one miss would be no big deal. The 2007 first round sweep is what we got because we decided the rebuild was over when we made a few trades in February 2004. I was yelling everywhere to trade Jagr, Nylander and Straka for futures. The haul would've been enormous. The combination of an earlier pick plus a massive amount of youth for 3 stars would've meant at least the 2014 Cup, maybe more... probably more. Instead, Slats signed the washed up Shanahan and Cullen, who absolutely hated living in New York before he was traded back to Carolina. We got our playoffs. The memory of those 4 games (all loses) will last a lifetime. Right?

Rebuild the right way.

 

[Synergy27]

A team needs at least 3 stars (Leetch, Zubov, Messier; Cindy, Malkin, Kessel) plus good support staff (Richter, Graves, Kovalev) who can look like stars on many nights. We may get one star with Kakko. Another early pick next year gives us a somewhat realistic shot at one more. We then have a bunch of prospects with high ceilings (Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre, Shesterkin). Until 3 stars and 3-4 other top-shelf players emerge, we will be rebuilding, whether we like it or not.

I've been skeptical in coronating him, but I think Zib is a star. Kakko should be one as well. Need a top shelf defenseman and Georgiev or Shestyorkin to pan out.

Moving on Panarin this summer becomes a lot more tempting with Kakko in the fold but I'm inclined to draft high again one more time myself.

 

[Matt4776]

If we had more prospects, one miss would be no big deal. The 2007 first round sweep is what we got because we decided the rebuild was over when we made a few trades in February 2004. I was yelling everywhere to trade Jagr, Nylander and Straka for futures. The haul would've been enormous. The combination of an earlier pick plus a massive amount of youth for 3 stars would've meant at least the 2014 Cup, maybe more... probably more. Instead, Slats signed the washed up Shanahan and Cullen, who absolutely hated living in New York before he was traded back to Carolina. We got our playoffs. The memory of those 4 games (all loses) will last a lifetime. Right?

Rebuild the right way.

We came out of the dark ages post-lockout. I don't agree with the moves we made then, but I could at least understand the thought process.

We have no excuse this time. We just enjoyed a run of great success. Playoffs in almost every year for a decade. A SCF run. A couple of ECF runs. We've tasted playoff success. Hopefully, that gives management/the fan-base patience to do things the right way this time around.

 

[Ori]

But I`m thrilled about either Kakko or Hughes to see them in action, but just in a different setting. I wish it was October already and training camp.

 

[Bob Richards]

We lost to LA in 2014 because of the Jessiman pick. If we had gotten our elite franchise forward in that draft such as Parise, Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Richards or Bergeron things play out a whole lot different.

drafting Ryan Getzlaf instead of Hugh Jessiman in 2003 would have altered nothing else about the direction of the team in profoundly dramatic and unknown ways in the 11 years afterwards and it would be the exact same Cup appearance team with the exact same coach but + one elite Ryan Getzlaf

 

[Bob Richards]

If we had more prospects, one miss would be no big deal. The 2007 first round sweep is what we got because we decided the rebuild was over when we made a few trades in February 2004. I was yelling everywhere to trade Jagr, Nylander and Straka for futures. The haul would've been enormous. The combination of an earlier pick plus a massive amount of youth for 3 stars would've meant at least the 2014 Cup, maybe more... probably more. Instead, Slats signed the washed up Shanahan and Cullen, who absolutely hated living in New York before he was traded back to Carolina. We got our playoffs. The memory of those 4 games (all loses) will last a lifetime. Right?

Rebuild the right way.

the 2014 Cup would have been ours had we just enacted these massive franchise overhauls 8 years prior that definitely wouldn't bring upon their own huge chain reactions and shift in the time line

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Guess I’d need to see the Kreider deal then who they sign

I can understand being scared about a crappy deal but Kreider I think stays good into his early 30s

He’s just about in his early 30s now, a new deal is most likely going to take him into his mid-30’s, and he’s been pretty consistently banged up the past few seasons. I love the guy, but I feel terrible about giving him a new contract

 

[Leetch3]

I see Chytil penciled in as our 2nd line center a lot. Not really sure that is the best idea for the team or him. Will there be any guys like Cullen, Ruchin, etc to take some of the pressure of the kids for a season?

its a rebuild and we aren't going to be good anyway. year 3 its time for him to get a bigger role and see if he can handle it. the insurance if he can't handle it is already here, ryan strome

 

[Leetch3]

our offseason strategy

 

[Avery16]

Torts is back to throwing key players under the bus with the press, after the slightest hint of stress:

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Torts is back to throwing key players under the bus with the press, after the slightest hint of stress:

Yeah he’s trying to fire up his squad

Torts gets a lot of shit but here he is in the playoffs, yet again. He has his flaws but he’s a good coach. Unlike Alain.

 

[eco's bones]

Maybe we have a lot of room for 20-21, but what happens in years 22-23 when we’re going to have to lock up all these guys we drafted that are entering their prime, plus a Mika extension unless we decide to move on from him. You’re also not thinking about all the other guys that are going to be due raises. We may be losing 20-25 but how much of that is going to guys like Chytil Andersson Howden DeAngelo Pionk the following year. The year after Kakko Kravstov, we need to maintain legitimate flexibility until we know what our prospects turn into.

Zibanejad is three years away from his next contract. Not everyone is going to become as good a player as he is and there will be more draft picks and more prospects. Some of them will work out--some won't work out as hoped--some will be moved. But just looking at center now--with Zibanejad as our No 1--how are we going to find the ice time at center for all of Chtyil, Andersson and Howden-- one or two of them will spend lots of times as wings--maybe not always in the top 6 and maybe one of them gets moved. Not all of them are going to score big on their second or even third contracts--the guys who will do the best will be the ones who get the top 6 forward minutes and the top 4 defense minutes--the players who show they can carry the team and who become leaders.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Torts is back to throwing key players under the bus with the press, after the slightest hint of stress:

Is he wrong?

Torts has said a ton of dumb stuff in his career but this isn't one of those.

 

[Avery16]

Yeah he’s trying to fire up his squad

Torts gets a lot of **** but here he is in the playoffs, yet again. He has his flaws but he’s a good coach. Unlike Alain.

Like a lot of his teams, this one won’t go deep

 

[Avery16]

Is he wrong?

Torts has said a ton of dumb stuff in his career but this isn't one of those.

Yes. Yes he is.

 

[Kovalev27]

He was complimenting Bob there

 

[pblawr]

A team needs at least 3 stars (Leetch, Zubov, Messier; Cindy, Malkin, Kessel) plus good support staff (Richter, Graves, Kovalev) who can look like stars on many nights. We may get one star with Kakko. Another early pick next year gives us a somewhat realistic shot at one more. We then have a bunch of prospects with high ceilings (Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre, Shesterkin). Until 3 stars and 3-4 other top-shelf players emerge, we will be rebuilding, whether we like it or not.

The really exciting thing is that you can start to see this taking shape for the Rangers. Kakko seems pretty close to as good of a bet as you can get for a star player. If Chytil, Kravtsov, K'Andre, and potentially Fox each individually had a 20-30% chance of turning into a star, that would give us a 50-75% chance of getting another star (and 15-35% chance of getting 2 more). Then you have high first round draft picks for the next few years, 4 more picks in the top 2 rounds this year, and the potential for a Kreider trade to add additional high picks. On top of that, we have tons and tons of cap room and a deep group of reasonably promising prospects and young players who we will be able to use to acquire a top player if one becomes available via trade or free agency. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but it actually seems pretty reasonable to me to think that the Rangers could have 3-4 star players who we could build a cup contender around 3-4 years down the road.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

With the Rangers being a very rich club but not the pieces to allocate money to they should look at taking on some bad contracts with a year or two left to gain assets.

Think names like Callahan, Dubinsky, Backes, Stone, Kulikov.

Rangers need some veteran forwards for a year or two anyways. Rangers are gonna be a tire fire but the veterans are needed to help the coaching staff establish good habits with the youth. Youth should not just be handed a spot or top minutes cause they play on a bad team. Witness the Oilers for why! A lot of the Rangers young forwards should spend a good chunk of next season down in the AHL.

 

[Avery16]

He was complimenting Bob there

A perfect Torts compliment. If we lose this series, blame Bob.