Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXVI

[SA16]

Every time a major FA hits the market the same argument appears - 'when will a guy like this be available again?' Yet, almost every time, within a few years, the teams signing them (often us) ends up regretting it.

Two things are obvious:

1. Big FA's will continue to hit the market in the future, meaning we should hold open our cap space for when it actually makes sense to use it.

2. Signing players in their late 20's to long term, big $ contracts will almost certainly not work out.

In my opinion, when you give a contract out for max term/big money to older guys you're basically going all-in for the next 3-5 years, knowing that the last few they will be an albatross.

Seeing as Panarin will likely not even make the Rangers a playoff team, I have a hard time finding any logic behind why they should sign him and I think Gorton probably feels the same. He's not an idiot and this would just be an idiotic move.

How can they regret it every time when under the current CBA there has been one UFA on a similar level and he just signed last year?

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Very disappointed in you guys. You had some Red Wing nut talking crap about us and none of you stepped in!

"Except, his family is in Michigan, he stepped back from Tampa because of it. And NYC isn't the biggest hockey market in the world. No one cares about the Rangers. They aren't even top 5 in the US for ratings or attendance. Honestly, of the original 6, I would rate them last."

"They aren't bigger or more popular than any of the Canadian franchises. And are behind Boston, Detroit, Chicago in the US. They are 19th in percent tickets sold this season, and even when they are doing well, they till average around 10th in number of tickets sold. And they rarely rate well on TV. But, even if they are in the top 1/3rd of the league, that doesn't make them a premier franchise, that just makes them a good one."

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Very disappointed in you guys. You had some Red Wing nut talking crap about us and none of you stepped in!

"Except, his family is in Michigan, he stepped back from Tampa because of it. And NYC isn't the biggest hockey market in the world. No one cares about the Rangers. They aren't even top 5 in the US for ratings or attendance. Honestly, of the original 6, I would rate them last."

"They aren't bigger or more popular than any of the Canadian franchises. And are behind Boston, Detroit, Chicago in the US. They are 19th in percent tickets sold this season, and even when they are doing well, they till average around 10th in number of tickets sold. And they rarely rate well on TV. But, even if they are in the top 1/3rd of the league, that doesn't make them a premier franchise, that just makes them a good one."

Have Dolan ban him from MSG

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

How can they regret it every time when under the current CBA there has been one UFA on a similar level and he just signed last year?

Why would you limit the scope to players signed under the current CBA?

 

[bobbop]

Free agency is different here...

 

[bobbop]

Fort Lauderdale is closer to Sunrise than Miami - Miami, on a good day, is about an hour away.

Stars go to Miami. Grinders go to Fort Laudedale.

 

[SA16]

Why would you limit the scope to players signed under the current CBA?

Because the previous CBA had different rules? Players could become FA later. Players could sign longer deals. Contracts could be structured differently. Player couldn't sign for an extra year with their current team. The quality of UFA have dropped significantly with this CBA compared to the last one.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Very disappointed in you guys. You had some Red Wing nut talking crap about us and none of you stepped in!

"Except, his family is in Michigan, he stepped back from Tampa because of it. And NYC isn't the biggest hockey market in the world. No one cares about the Rangers. They aren't even top 5 in the US for ratings or attendance. Honestly, of the original 6, I would rate them last."

"They aren't bigger or more popular than any of the Canadian franchises. And are behind Boston, Detroit, Chicago in the US. They are 19th in percent tickets sold this season, and even when they are doing well, they till average around 10th in number of tickets sold. And they rarely rate well on TV. But, even if they are in the top 1/3rd of the league, that doesn't make them a premier franchise, that just makes them a good one."

Imagine legitimately believing that Detroit is more desirable than the Rangers.

Delusional.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Imagine legitimately believing that Detroit is more desirable than the Rangers.

Delusional.

Well hit 'em hard on the Rangers Stevie Y thread on the Trade Rumors forum

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Well hit 'em hard on the Rangers Stevie Y thread on the Trade Rumors forum

I ain’t exactly in a Ranger defending mood after that debacle.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Let's break down this season:

1. we got poor return on our major assets and did not trade away some like Vesey and Namestnikov
2. All prospects/rookies other than DeAngelo and Georgiev had horrific season/production overall. Chytil and Andersson have not panned out, Pionk and Howden fizzled out fast.
3. we did not make the playoffs nor have we secured a bottom 5 record meaning if we want a very good player we will need to overpay to trade up.
4. we traded for MacQuaid before the start of the season which made little sense for a rebuilding team that needed to find playing time for their young Dmen

So overall total fail of of a season for this rebuild

 

[Shesterkybomb]

My prediction at the draft....

Matthew Boldy and Arthur Kaliyev

 

[bobbop]

A strawman argument is seeming to debate a point, while actually arguing a point that no one is debating. Your views are to sign Panarin. I am directly arguing against signing Panarin and am listing out my reasons.

You state that only because you have the benefit of hindsight. At the time, Parise and Suter were the Panarins of their free agent class.

I understand and do not disagree. The issue that I have with that is that adding Panarin to this team, while making them better, will not significantly improve their chances of playing those meaningful March games.

The issue is not next year. The issue is that you are signing Panarin to a contract that will be max years and max dollars and have the customary NTC/NMC attached. You will waste at least the first two years of his prime, waiting for the Rangers to become competitive. You will then waste the next two while you are waiting for them to become truly competitive. Then, just when the Rangers are ready to truly compete, they will then be saddled with a player who is no longer the player he was during his prime. And it becomes an albatross of a contract.

Panarin really wants to play for the Rangers and be in New York? That is his true desire? Fine. Then sign the contract without the NTC/NMC clause. Tell me, what do you think the chances are of that?

If that’s his true desire why would he sign a contract that could be moved to Arizona tomorrow?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Should we go into full rebuild mode next season. Trade Vesey, Namestnikov, Shattenkirk, Smith, Pionk, Fast, and Kreider and buyout Staal? Get Lundqvist to accept a trade or retire?

 

[Edge]

Let's break down this season:

1. we got poor return on our major assets and did not trade away some like Vesey and Namestnikov
2. All prospects/rookies other than DeAngelo and Georgiev had horrific season/production overall. Chytil and Andersson have not panned out, Pionk and Howden fizzled out fast.
3. we did not make the playoffs nor have we secured a bottom 5 record meaning if we want a very good player we will need to overpay to trade up.
4. we traded for MacQuaid before the start of the season which made little sense for a rebuilding team that needed to find playing time for their young Dmen

So overall total fail of of a season for this rebuild

I’m actually quite impressed by the fact that I disagree with every single one of those points.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I’m actually quite impressed by the fact that I disagree with every single one of those points.

So you think this was a very successful rebuild? Lots of our top prospects showing great promise?

 

[Ghost of jas]

I’m actually quite impressed by the fact that I disagree with every single one of those points.

This is a time when I thank you for falling on the grenade,. I don't have the patience for this tonight.

 

[Edge]

So you think this was a very successful rebuild? Lots of our top prospects showing great promise?

I think this a very good start to a rebuild.

I don’t think it’s complete, nor that it should be referenced in past tense.

Right now we have a have two kids who have received rave reviews from the 2018 draft, and others who had successful D+1 seasons.

Guys like Georgiev and ADA made tremendous strides in the NHL. And others produced about what I expected them to.

We have at least two more first round picks, and a total of 5 picks in the top 62.

Yeah, I don’t see a failure right now. I see an incomplete. A promising incomplete. But an incomplete nonetheless.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I think this a very good start to a rebuild.

I don’t think it’s complete, nor that it should be referenced in past tense.

Right now we have a have two kids who have received rave reviews from the 2018 draft, and others who had successful D+1 seasons.

Guys like Georgiev and ADA made tremendous strides in the NHL. And others produced about what I expected them to.

We have at least two more first round picks, and a total of 5 picks in the top 62.

Yeah, I don’t see a failure right now. I see an incomplete. A promising incomplete. But an incomplete nonetheless.

I wasn't including the prospects outside of NHL/AHL in my review. Obviously rebuild is incomplete, but I think this season NHL/AHL gave us more questions than answers with exceptions of Georgiev and ADA.

 

[Edge]

I wasn't including the prospects outside of NHL/AHL in my review. Obviously rebuild is incomplete, but I think this season NHL/AHL gave us more questions than answers with exceptions of Georgiev and ADA.

I think Howden at 20 showed signs. As did Chytil at 19 and Andersson at 20.

I think Buch crossed certain thresholds.

I think we have a 25/26 year first line center for the first time since....before 80 percent of this roster was born.

So no, I don’t feel any of those as failures.

I think some players, typically the ones a little older, answered more questions than the younger ones. But that should also shine a light on the need for patience.

If ADA, Buch and Georgiev we’re our biggest NHL movers, and they were all in the 23 range, the need for patience concerning guys who are 3-4 years younger becomes even more important.

 

[Mikos87]

My prediction at the draft....

Matthew Boldy and Arthur Kaliyev

Boldy is a lot like Kreider. Surprised that he isn't as popular of a choice around here.

But methinks the Rangers like Cozens and Zegras. If it's the 7th slot, they'll get Zegras. Waiting to see how things unfold at the draft lottery.

 

[Mikos87]

If the Rangers were to dangle Georgiev in a trade, there would be a lot of suitors. I'm not ready to call him a starter yet, but he's knocking on the door.

Biggest shortcoming is that he's gotten lit up after a bad goal or two, but that's between the ears. He's going to get better. I don't see an elite starter, but if he's reliable, then he can be on par with a guy like Anderson.

Will be interesting to see what Shesty does. Also am hoping that Olof plays a lot more next year, and shows something to be excited about during the WJC.

Rangers are good on goaltending prospects, but adding some minor league depth would be nice.

 

[Tawnos]

If the Rangers were to dangle Georgiev in a trade, there would be a lot of suitors. I'm not ready to call him a starter yet, but he's knocking on the door.

Biggest shortcoming is that he's gotten lit up after a bad goal or two, but that's between the ears. He's going to get better. I don't see an elite starter, but if he's reliable, then he can be on par with a guy like Anderson.

Will be interesting to see what Shesty does. Also am hoping that Olof plays a lot more next year, and shows something to be excited about during the WJC.

Rangers are good on goaltending prospects, but adding some minor league depth would be nice.

If they do move Georgiev, I don't think it'll be before next deadline, at earliest. More likely draft.

I'd be surprised if they don't bring in an AHL-level vet to play tandem with Huska and/or Shesterkin.

 

[duhmetreE]

A strawman argument is seeming to debate a point, while actually arguing a point that no one is debating. Your views are to sign Panarin. I am directly arguing against signing Panarin and am listing out my reasons.

hence 'semi-strawman'. You, or some, were saying, 'no because a hypothetical unicorn may present itself'. Setting up a false reality to prove your point.

You state that only because you have the benefit of hindsight. At the time, Parise and Suter were the Panarins of their free agent class.

Being the best UFA available doesn't mean they are on the same level. There's no connection. Panarin is a superior player.

The issue is not next year. The issue is that you are signing Panarin to a contract that will be max years and max dollars and have the customary NTC/NMC attached. You will waste at least the first two years of his prime, waiting for the Rangers to become competitive. You will then waste the next two while you are waiting for them to become truly competitive. Then, just when the Rangers are ready to truly compete, they will then be saddled with a player who is no longer the player he was during his prime. And it becomes an albatross of a contract.

Max dollars? That'd be over $16M. I wouldn't be surprised if he signed for 6/70.

Wasting? Nothing is 'wasting'. That's non-sense.

We will hopefully be competing next year. As in playing/competing in meaningful games. Improving YOY

He would help the team transition over the next year or two. How many close games were we in? that we lost? Changing out Ruff's antiquated 'defensive' structure, in and of itself, should yield noticeable improvements. Adding an elite producer should help. Getting Zibs an elite- playmaker, should help. Getting the Ruskies some leadership, should help.

'Saddled' ... 'Albatross contract' because he's out of his prime and he will turn into a potato at 30... I forgot... the pejoratives are overwhelming.

He will be an elite-top tier point producer until 34-35. He will be paid fair value and earn his pay. The team will be filled with ELCs and/or RFA's. In 2 more seasons, hopefully sooner, $26M worth of dead weight come off the books. If you want to talk about 'wasting', that is what it looks like.

 

[Mikos87]

If they do move Georgiev, I don't think it'll be before next deadline, at earliest. More likely draft.

I'd be surprised if they don't bring in an AHL-level vet to play tandem with Huska and/or Shesterkin.

There's no need to either. Let the goaltending situation ride out.

The Rangers are going to be in a position to draft a bunch of defensemen with their picks this year. I wouldn't be surprised if they went the Anaheim route to trade from positions of strength.

ANA did the same with their goaltending and defense... although they did mess up by how they managed their contracts, their drafting and development is one of the tops in the league.