Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXV

[Graves94]

I would only sign Panarin if there is no NTC clause in his contract.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We signed Gaborik during a time where we had even less direction perhaps. We were transitioning from the Jagr regime with a less promising prospect pool. We knew we had an emerging Henrik Lundqvist but we still had just as many question marks.

I like the situation now that we would be bringing Panarin into.

Less promising pool?

That team had already produced Staal, G, Dubi, Callahan amongst others and had the likes of Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Hagelin, Anisimov, etc. in tow. Their farm was commonly seen as a top 3-5 group.

They also had a 27 year old Hank, not a 37 year old one. This isn't something we can just gloss over, it's a major factor.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

We signed Gaborik during a time where we had even less direction perhaps. We were transitioning from the Jagr regime with a less promising prospect pool. We knew we had an emerging Henrik Lundqvist but we still had just as many question marks.

I like the situation now that we would be bringing Panarin into.

And guess what? We didn’t win, did we? We added a high priced free agent when we weren’t ready.

We still lack the elite, marquee and established prospects that teams have when they finally decide to add free agents. They won’t be signing him.

 

[RGY]

None of those aforementioned players had as high of a ceiling as our current youngsters. Our current youngsters are also at the NHL level and will be there next year. So clamoring for them being in the Bottom 6 is no different than Lias and Howden being in the bottom 6.

 

[RGY]

And guess what? We didn’t win, did we? We added a high priced free agent when we weren’t ready.

We still lack the elite, marquee and established prospects that teams have when they finally decide to add free agents. They won’t be signing him.

Lets bookmark this. Its statements like this when people act like they know better than the rest that make me want to sign him more. Just to watch you bitch and complain when they do

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Stepan was absolutely in the class as our best guys. He was a top 10 prospect in the league. Kreider's ceiling if we're going to talk ceilings was very high. I didn't even mention Grachev who flamed out and was seen as a stud at that time.

Del Zotto who made the team that upcoming season at 19 out produced what Chytil and Andersson have provided this season combined.

We've seen what these guys amounted to, but lets not act like they were being thought as like some run of the mill prospects with limited ceilings. It was an excellent group that really formed most of what ended up being a short term contender...

Which could have been a long term contender if they drafted their own star and didn't try to build around free agents.

 

[RGY]

Howden - Dubinsky
Lias - Callahan
ADA - Del Zotto

Staal and G is the only argument and to be honest the number can even out with Hajek and Lindgren making the team. Could even say Pionk is on a similar trajectory as Girardi.

Chytil, Kravtsov can offset your Stepan and Anisimov count.

Then there is McDonagh. Still could have a dman to emerge to even it out.

You say our system back then was 3-5 but i dont recall that. Lets check that. And either way our current system is absolutely better than that one was at THAT TIME.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I would only sign Panarin if there is no NTC clause in his contract.

lol, never in a million years will he sign a contract without a NTC.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Lets bookmark this. Its statements like this when people act like they know better than the rest that make me want to sign him more. Just to watch you ***** and complain when they do

You know what, I’m gonna help you out. I think you need to be a fan of a team that builds their teams the way you want them to be built. Have a couple of jerseys:

 

[LORDE]

I can't wait for tues to be over... been stressing about the stupid lottery for a whole season.

(Yes I'm ready to do it again next season lol)

 

[gravey9]

If the Rangers talk to Panarin, they need to iron out some things before we consider signing him. He routinely took some really long shifts last night. I might be mistaken but at a few points it felt like he'd taken like a two minute shift. When he's not in the offensive zone, he sorta floats and waits to go on the attack. He conserves his energy unless he's in the offensive zone. Maybe they're trying to convince him to re-sign by letting him do whatever he wants? I was actually really surprised Tortorella was okay with this. I don't think Quinn will be. I'm not against bringing in high calibre vets to shelter the kids and let them develop before they're asked to shoulder everything. But I am worried about bringing in vets that undermine the structure. This needs to get ironed out before we seriously consider signing him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Howden - Dubinsky
Lias - Callahan
ADA - Del Zotto

Staal and G is the only argument and to be honest the number can even out with Hajek and Lindgren making the team. Could even say Pionk is on a similar trajectory as Girardi.

Chytil, Kravtsov can offset your Stepan and Anisimov count.

Then there is McDonagh. Still could have a dman to emerge to even it out.

You say our system back then was 3-5 but i dont recall that. Lets check that. And either way our current system is absolutely better than that one was at THAT TIME.

Dubinsky already had a pair of 40 point seasons under his belt. Granted he was older, but you can't just make that comparison like it fits. It may, but it may not

Ditto Cally and Lias

ADA and DZ is closer.

Our system was 3-5 and was seen as a system filled with studs after the WJC. The system may be viewed as better after this draft depending on what happens, but at this moment right now it isn't.

But that ignores the fact that neither farm had a surefire franchise stud outside of the goalie, and the one that had that one was the one that signed Gaborik.

And TBH, we could probably use 2 of them who won't likely start to dip in 3 seasons.

 

[RGY]

You know what, I’m gonna help you out. I think you need to be a fan of a team that builds their teams the way you want them to be built. Have a couple of jerseys:

Dont tell me who to be a fan of because i see a different path and it doesnt align with your way of thinking.

You see one way. Only one way. Good for you.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Ive been a fan of this team for 25 years. Dont dare come at me because i dont subscribe to your plan since we all know you can see into the future and know it will work.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Less promising pool?

That team had already produced Staal, G, Dubi, Callahan amongst others and had the likes of Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh, Del Zotto, Hagelin, Anisimov, etc. in tow. Their farm was commonly seen as a top 3-5 group.

They also had a 27 year old Hank, not a 37 year old one. This isn't something we can just gloss over, it's a major factor.

In hindsight, those teams were only good because of chemistry. None of the guys you mentioned were all that talented, just hardworking. they even knew that then.

 

[NYR Viper]

It all depends on what Panarin wants doesn’t it? Do the Rangers trade Kreider for a 1st ‘20 +? Do the Stars re-sign Zuccarello? Does TB win the cup? Does Dallas get to the WCF?

At what point does Gorton say he has enough pieces to sign a guy like Panarin? St what terms?

If the Rangers have 3 1st’s this year, trade Kreider and know they have no less then 3 1st’s next year would Gorton consider a 7 year deal at $9m per season?

There’s too many unknowns to state definitively yes or no.

I’ll be honest and say if the Rangers know they have 3 1st’s this year and 3 more next year I’d be inclined to at least infer as to what he wants. I wouldn’t go any higher than $9.5m per season.

The theoretical scenario would give the Rangers 11 first round picks in 4 years.

 

[duhmetreE]

PLEASE, STOP.

Elite players produce well into their 30's. Panarin will not stop producing when he hits 30.
30 y/o ≠ 35 y/o . When did this switch? I missed the memo

Why are Crosby, Wheeler, Bergeron, Marchand, Giroux, Burns, Malkin, Kessel, , Backstrom, Giordano, Krejci etc still producing? This is asinine

 

[Edge]

This is inaccurate and disingenuous. Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Prospal, Drury, Avery, Boyle and Prust on the bottom 6. Roszival, Girardi, Staal, Del Zotto and Redden isn't stellar, but at least steady and proven at the time. And 28 year old Lundqvist made you a legit contender. Gaborik made sense in that context.

And he signed for 5 years.

I also can’t help but feel like we can’t just lump a prime Lundqvist in like he’s relatively average factor.

The presence of a prime Lundqvist, arguably one of the best goalies of all-time, is like like adding a platinum boost pack to our stack of cards.

 

[Edge]

PLEASE, STOP.

Elite players produce well into their 30's. Panarin will not stop producing when he hits 30.
30 y/o ≠ 35 y/o . When did this switch? I missed the memo

Why are Crosby, Wheeler, Bergeron, Marchand, Giroux, Burns, Malkin, Kessel, , Backstrom, Giordano, Krejci etc still producing? This is asinine

For me I don’t particularly question that Panarin will produce. The question is how much/at what level.

Let’s say Panarin is a 25 goal, 60 point winger 5 years from now. That’s good.

But is it enough, even with what we have? Could we find a similar producing option at that point.

That’s the primary concern with timing. Panarin’s best years, his elite years, are wasted on the Rangers developmental years.

In turn, the Rangers best years, will likely come when Panarin is a very good, but not elite player.

That’s the whole timing component that, to me, is doesn’t quite line up. Or if it does, it’s probably for a very short window.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Dont tell me who to be a fan of because i see a different path and it doesnt align with your way of thinking.

You see one way. Only one way. Good for you.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Ive been a fan of this team for 25 years. Dont dare come at me because i dont subscribe to your plan since we all know you can see into the future and know it will work.

Sure. I see the right way, and you see the Minnesota wild way. It’s ok.

 

[duhmetreE]

Whats he going to look like 2 years from now? 4 years from now?

Someone better and younger will shake loose, they always do. It'll be via trade but thats fine, thats why you have the gazillion assets.

He'll look exactly the same.

Better? doubt it. To be better would be the McDavid/Crosby/Kane tier of player.. Younger? by how much? A year? We have a lot of assets but not that many 'premium' ones. We're going to give our top prospects up? instead of just signing a player? Your hypothetical does not hold any weight

As said before, even then. We could have both. We should want a plethora of 'elite' talent.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Also there’s this: WHY IS PANARIN SIGNING WITH A BAD TEAM? And yes the Florida Panthers are a better team than the Rangers.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

PLEASE, STOP.

Elite players produce well into their 30's. Panarin will not stop producing when he hits 30.
30 y/o ≠ 35 y/o . When did this switch? I missed the memo

Why are Crosby, Wheeler, Bergeron, Marchand, Giroux, Burns, Malkin, Kessel, , Backstrom, Giordano, Krejci etc still producing? This is asinine

No one is saying that he will stop producing...

The question is whether or not he’d still be producing at the level he is today, which is entirely valid.

 

[duhmetreE]

For me I don’t particularly question that Panarin will produce. The question is how much/at what level.

Let’s say Panarin is a 25 goal, 60 point winger 5 years from now. That’s good.

But is it enough, even with what we have? Could we find a similar producing option at that point.

That’s the primary concern with timing. Panarin’s best years, his elite years, are wasted on the Rangers developmental years.

In turn, the Rangers best years, will likely come when Panarin is a very good, but not elite player.

That’s the whole timing component that, to me, is doesn’t quite line up. Or if it does, it’s probably for a very short window.

We both see him as a transitional player, we see the same things. I see it as a positive and you see it as a negative.

I see the positive in competing over the next year or two. Truly contending in 3 years. Still 3-4 years left with Panarin and ample time to find his successor.

The whole point is to compete and progress year over year. Playing balls to the wall, Quinn hockey, becomes old real fast when you're not playing in meaningful games.

edit- and to add.. I believe we will have 'enough' going forward, AFTER this draft.

 

[E-Train]

Also there’s this: WHY IS PANARIN SIGNING WITH A BAD TEAM? And yes the Florida Panthers are a better team than the Rangers.

It’s very obvious he lines up much better with the Panthers. 94 pt #1 C, further along supporting cast. Panarin and an goalie (Bob or not) makes them a real contender.

 

[NYR Viper]

For me I don’t particularly question that Panarin will produce. The question is how much/at what level.

Let’s say Panarin is a 25 goal, 60 point winger 5 years from now. That’s good.

But is it enough, even with what we have? Could we find a similar producing option at that point.

That’s the primary concern with timing. Panarin’s best years, his elite years, are wasted on the Rangers developmental years.

In turn, the Rangers best years, will likely come when Panarin is a very good, but not elite player.

That’s the whole timing component that, to me, is doesn’t quite line up. Or if it does, it’s probably for a very short window.

Doesn’t this then depend on how the contract is structured though? Front loaded with bonuses? If the cap keeps going up, 5 years from now a $9m contract with less real dollars than cap isn’t probably not that difficult to move if the team desired it.