Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXIV

[Lindberg Cheese]

And what is that definition?

1. How do you propose to flood it?

2. Please explain what "backfill" is and how it is used?

3. Please let me know how old Panarin will be when the Rangers are truly ready to compete (not just take steps forward, but legit Cup contenders)?

I’m not gonna spend lots of time justifying my opinion other to say that 99.9% of the hockey world wouldn’t consider Zbad being “elite” although I’m loving what he’s doing for us.

Teams typically flood the pipeline through draft and signing NCAA or CHL FAs as well as trades, if you know a different way please educate me.

Backfilling to me means once you have a youngish core, you salt and pepper in 1-2 cheap FA vets for leadership and/or a specific role like 4C or 7D, something along those lines.

Panarin will be 3-4 years older than he is now when we are able to compete if all goes well. He is a needle mover that could accelerate that journey as well. On a 7 yr contract, we’ll get his backend 3-4 yrs in that hypothetical window.

Book all of the above, I’m the Gorton Whisperer

 

[True Blue]

Nobody does anything in Hartford, there is absolutely nobody there to play with. 5 games isnt gonna make or break Buch at this point, I'd much rather know if Gropp was any good or not, you cant tell from playing in Hartford. Some players need to play with high level players.

It isn't about Hartford. It is all about Gropp vs. Buch. There is absolutely no reason to take someone who at best has shown that he is a career AHL vet and have him skate instead of Buchnevich. I would much rather Buch continue to develop his confidence and chemistry with Zbad.

 

[True Blue]

I’m not gonna spend lots of time justifying my opinion other to say that 99.9% of the hockey world wouldn’t consider Zbad being “elite” although I’m loving what he’s doing for us.

I am not asking for justification. I am asking for your definition of "elite" There is quite a big difference between the two.

Teams typically flood the pipeline through draft and signing NCAA or CHL FAs as well as trades, if you know a different way please educate me.

Isn't this already what the Rangers are doing?

Backfilling to me means once you have a youngish core, you salt and pepper in 1-2 cheap FA vets for leadership and/or a specific role like 4C or 7D, something along those lines.

So you are saying to develop your core and then obtain wherever support is needed via UFA signing, no? Again, isn't this already what they are doing?

Panarin will be 3-4 years older than he is now when we are able to compete if all goes well. He is a needle mover that could accelerate that journey as well. On a 7 yr contract, we’ll get his backend 3-4 yrs in that hypothetical window.

Exactly how does he accelerate the journey? If you say that they will be competitive in 3-4 years, then there is no accelerating. That is exactly the timeline they should be on when they are just getting ready to compete again. As such, what is Panarin providing for those 3-4 years? And do you believe that his back 3-4 years will be as an elite talent?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It isn't about Hartford. It is all about Gropp vs. Buch. There is absolutely no reason to take someone who at best has shown that he is a career AHL vet and have him skate instead of Buchnevich. I would much rather Buch continue to develop his confidence and chemistry with Zbad.

It's not Gropp vs Buch, if Buch was the guy getting scratched that would be different. Buch has proven he can play on that line, heck take Kreider and put him on the 2nd line and leave Buch if you want...doesnt matter really. The organization might be wasting Gropp by letting him play with players who will never get a shift in the NHL. Someone will give him a shot when his contract is up, he produced too well at in the CHL not to. The season is over, it's the perfect time to see if better linemates bring the scoring out of him. It should be opportunity time for guys who have rode the bus to motivate them to have a better offseason and if we lose some games doing it then bonus.

 

[Fireonk]

It's not Gropp vs Buch, if Buch was the guy getting scratched that would be different. Buch has proven he can play on that line, heck take Kreider and put him on the 2nd line and leave Buch if you want...doesnt matter really. The organization might be wasting Gropp by letting him play with players who will never get a shift in the NHL. Someone will give him a shot when his contract is up, he produced too well at in the CHL not to. The season is over, it's the perfect time to see if better linemates bring the scoring out of him. It should be opportunity time for guys who have rode the bus to motivate them to have a better offseason and if we lose some games doing it then bonus.

That is not how you create an environment of accountability. Oh you scored a lot of points in the CHL? Ok, come on up and get first line minutes in the NHL after not being able to consistently score at the AHL level. You deserved it!

You can make an argument that he hasn't had the best talent to play with so its hard to get a gauge on him, but I would counter that argument by pointing out that its not like hes the highest scorer on the team and just being held back by his teammates. When a real AAA talent like Lettieri got sent down he lit it up with those same players.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

That is not how you create an environment of accountability. Oh you scored a lot of points in the CHL? Ok, come on up and get first line minutes in the NHL after not being able to consistently score at the AHL level. You deserved it!

You can make an argument that he hasn't had the best talent to play with so its hard to get a gauge on him, but I would counter that argument by pointing out that its not like hes the highest scorer on the team and just being held back by his teammates. When a real AAA talent like Lettieri got sent down he lit it up with those same players.

I've seen enough of Lettieri and Brickley time to give someone else a chance. Letteri and Gropp have different skill sets. Give Gropp a couple games before the offseason,give him something to strive for in the offseason. Maybe he works harder to get to the NHL next year. If he doesnt we dont have to resign him after next year and you can say well we did everything we could, if he does show up with a purpose this fall then you have next year to see if he is part of the solution instead of a wasted pick. I don't see a downside.

 

[Bob Richards]

That's an opinion, we won't know until we try. Would be thoroughly embarrassing if we let him walk after next year without giving him a chance and he pops 25 on a different team. Hartford is a waste of time right now, bad team,bad players, bad mojo. He might need to play with higher level players. He was progressing well in the WHL and over a point a game, he only regressed after getting to Hartford. Is it him? The team? His linemates? I'm guessing its him but I'd like to find out for sure.

I feel like this idea of just thrusting him into first line minutes is doing something for the sake of doing something.

Like there is no reasoning outside of the fact that we technically could do it.

 

[Fireonk]

I've seen enough of Lettieri and Brickley time to give someone else a chance. Letteri and Gropp have different skill sets. Give Gropp a couple games before the offseason,give him something to strive for in the offseason. Maybe he works harder to get to the NHL next year. If he doesnt we dont have to resign him after next year and you can say well we did everything we could, if he does show up with a purpose this fall then you have next year to see if he is part of the solution instead of a wasted pick. I don't see a downside.

Being gifted first line minutes doesn't give him anything to strive for. It just leads players thinking they will get gifted opportunities because they performed well in Juniors. If he wants to earn a spot in the NHL then he should know what he needs to do.

 

[Machinehead]

The first thing Gorton has identified is the need for gamebreaking talent.

Buffalo, Philly, LA, Chicago, and to an extent, Colorado and Dallas: these teams have gamebreaking talent. What's still missing? That's the second thing we need to identify.

 

[Machinehead]

That's an opinion, we won't know until we try. Would be thoroughly embarrassing if we let him walk after next year without giving him a chance and he pops 25 on a different team. Hartford is a waste of time right now, bad team,bad players, bad mojo. He might need to play with higher level players. He was progressing well in the WHL and over a point a game, he only regressed after getting to Hartford. Is it him? The team? His linemates? I'm guessing its him but I'd like to find out for sure.

Group can't even pop 25 in the minors. Hell, he can't pop 15 in the minors.

I know Hartford is deplorable but Lettieri scored there and he's a blackhole in the NHL.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The first thing Gorton has identified is the need for gamebreaking talent.

Buffalo, Philly, LA, Chicago, and to an extent, Colorado and Dallas: these teams have gamebreaking talent. What's still missing? That's the second thing we need to identify.

Depth/reliable goaltending, I feel like the system right now has a pretty good shot at having both, just need some of that upper tier talent to kind of lock everything into its proper place

 

[haohmaru]

I think that’s a grossly over-simplified version of what people are annoyed about.

It's actually a really simple concept wanting your team to lose to have a better draft position.

 

[Machinehead]

I think the team always tries to win and the notion of criticizing that for the sake of draft positioning is ludicrous. These guys are professionals that rely on their performances to get paid. I feel just fine with them giving 100%, or whatever they have left at this point, every game. The results are the results.

Nobody is mad if they try real hard and play well.

I think people were upset last night because they were flat and bad and stole a game.

To be fair, it looked like St. Louis couldn't give less of a f***, but still annoying.

Like I said last night, I don't think anyone will ever look back at that game and say it ruined our entire rebuild. I'm just trying to be reasonable about it.

At the same time, I'm not going to point to that game and say it's the culture we're trying to build, so I understand the annoyance.

 

[Machinehead]

Fast Namestnikov and Vesey should be the 3 guys that have to be moved somehow this summer. I’d take literally anything for them and not regret it at all. I just want their roster spots and cap space open.

I mean I’m serious I’d take 7th rounders if it came down to it.

For what?

Give me the list of good young NHL talent we're just overflowing with.

That's not to shit on our rebuild, it's just early on.

 

[haohmaru]

Nobody is mad if they try real hard and play well.

I think people were upset last night because they were flat and bad and stole a game.

To be fair, it looked like St. Louis couldn't give less of a ****, but still annoying.

Like I said last night, I don't think anyone will ever look back at that game and say it ruined our entire rebuild. I'm just trying to be reasonable about it.

At the same time, I'm not going to point to that game and say it's the culture we're trying to build, so I understand the annoyance.

The post that I quoted and replied to wasn't talking about last night's game. It was talking about finishing out the season on a winning streak and losing draft position(s).

Did they "deserve" to win last night? No, not really.

But, let's also keep in mind that a lot of players on this team have never played this many games or this many minutes in games in the NHL and are all pretty young. There's going to be let downs that might not necessarily be a lack of will, but just being physically drained. These last 5 games in 7 (I think, I haven't looked it up) or 8 nights are going to finish the job on some of these 'yutes.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That's an opinion, we won't know until we try. Would be thoroughly embarrassing if we let him walk after next year without giving him a chance and he pops 25 on a different team. Hartford is a waste of time right now, bad team,bad players, bad mojo. He might need to play with higher level players. He was progressing well in the WHL and over a point a game, he only regressed after getting to Hartford. Is it him? The team? His linemates? I'm guessing its him but I'd like to find out for sure.

Well, let me save you from embarrassment, there’s literally zero chance Ryan Gropp scores 25 goals next year, the season after, or the season after that. None.

He might score 25 in the LNAH.

 

[Machinehead]

The post that I quoted and replied to wasn't talking about last night's game. It was talking about finishing out the season on a winning streak and losing draft position(s).

Did they "deserve" to win last night? No, not really.

But, let's also keep in mind that a lot of players on this team have never played this many games or this many minutes in games in the NHL and are all pretty young. There's going to be let downs that might not necessarily be a lack of will, but just being physically drained. These last 5 games in 7 (I think, I haven't looked it up) or 8 nights are going to finish the job on some of these 'yutes.

The only way this team goes on a winning streak is if they ride Georgiev the rest of the season and he stays hot.

They have no reason to do that and Georgiev hasn't shown yet that he can remain dominant with a starter's workload.

 

[Kovalev27]

For what?

Give me the list of good young NHL talent we're just overflowing with.

That's not to **** on our rebuild, it's just early on.

Kreider Mika Buchnevich
Lemieux Chytil Kravtsov
Lias Howden Strome
Smith Nieves Lettieri

That’s without even adding Panarin. All those guys should be here with maybe the exception of Lettieri.

Zero need to have fast namestnikov or Vesey here eating mins. All those guys do is keep us in the 6-12 range

What do they make 8 plus mil on basically filler players? No thanks

We either add a stud or two or we bottom out. These guys keep us in between for another year

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider Mika Buchnevich
Lemieux Chytil Kravtsov
Lias Howden Strome
Smith Nieves Lettieri

That’s without even adding Panarin. All those guys should be here with maybe the exception of Lettieri.

Zero need to have fast namestnikov or Vesey here eating mins. All those guys do is keep us in the 6-12 range

I would argue Vesey helps our lottery cause, but I digress.

This forces us to play Strome at wing which forces us to play our kids at center the entire year. One injury and our kids are playing big minutes. Kravtsov can't wipe his own ass and you're asking him to carry an NHL line. This also forces us to play Smith at forward and we lose an option on defense.

I know people don't like the Edmonton comparisons, but throwing 19 and 20 year olds at the wall is Edmonton 101.

Kids should be protected and more importantly, kids should be earning minutes. Every team needs options, and they don't even have to be good options. (The only player of the three above replacement level is Fast)

Should we be lucky enough that all of our young players take over spots, we can just scratch guys or trade them later, since you're trading them for nothing anyway. Why do it now and risk a problem when you can just as easily do it later if/when you know there's no problem?

Protecting and blocking prospects is two different things. Nobody on this team is blocking prospects, except mayyybe Marc Staal. And I only say that because the Rangers still seem to think, based on usage, that's he's Chris Pronger. That said, we haven't had a young LHD really worth taking the minutes yet. Staal likely won't even be here when the chickens really come to roost.

 

[duhmetreE]

Lock up Strome for 4-5 years in July. He's a solid and valuable middle6 player.

I like Names but I rather pay Strome that money. Same goes for Vesey. Vesey could get us back a decent pick or packaged to move higher...

I'd move a lot of assets to get back into the top10-15... Get my boy Caufield or a player that drops alla Dach.

 

[Machinehead]

3rd and 4th line players are not keeping us from the bottom.

Mika Zibanejad is keeping us from the bottom. And if you want him off the team, you can wrestle me.

 

[duhmetreE]

3rd and 4th line players are not keeping us from the bottom.

Mika Zibanejad is keeping us from the bottom. And if you want him off the team, you can wrestle me.

Quinn is keeping us from the bottom..

 

[Machinehead]

Quinn is keeping us from the bottom..

There's things to like about Quinn but I haven't seen enough to say he's influencing this team in one direction or the other.

I like his attitude, but most of our wins are courtesy of hot goaltending on nights where the top line gets points. AV could do that.

I'm interested to see Quinn with a real roster.

 

[GAGLine]

Really good contract by Arizona if Schmaltz can keep playing at a high level. I wonder if Gorton does something similar with Buch, though at a lower number.

 

[mike14]

3rd and 4th line players are not keeping us from the bottom.

Mika Zibanejad is keeping us from the bottom. And if you want him off the team, you can wrestle me.