Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXII

[Fitzy]

By Pierre, not by the Rangers

And Bob, whose word I usually take.

 

[BBKers]

Taro Hirose is the get of this year's NCAA UFA group, in my opinion. He'd be a great pick up.

Been pushing for us to sign him and Bobo Carpenter for some time...

 

[Kovalev27]

Howden roughly on a 25-30 pt pace for his rookie year even with the injury and huge slump. That kid is a player. He’s a 3C at worst. He’s shown far more than Lias ever has.

 

[dumpin]

As a Mets fan I'd say we're more like the Gary Coleman of sports.

As a Met fan since 62 we are more like the Rodney Dangerfield of sports.

 

[Ghost of jas]

As much as I'm super hard on Lias Andersson, there's absolutely nothing right now that indicates to me that Howden has secured a long-term spot over him.

They both really blow in the NHL right now and both have an unknown future.

There is for me. He’s done something Lias has failed to do so far...he’s earned the trust of the head coach. And that, more than anything else, is my biggest disappointment in Lias. He struck me as a player that a coach would feel comfortable playing in important situations, and could be relied upon. And, right now, I don’t see it. Howden, OTOH, is someone the coaching staff has full confidence in. And that’s one thing that separated Callahan and Dubinsky from the likes of Dawes, Prucha and Immonen.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Strome is on pace for 29 points. He has 12 goals and 25 points in 68 games.

$3.2M salary/$3.1M cap hit.

His value was so down that Edmonton traded him for Spooner. Edmonton tried to trade him and couldn't find a taker for Strome.

A player making $3.2M in salary and a $3.1 cap hit should have more 29 points at the end of the season. He had 1 good season 4 years ago.

You think this player is worth those numbers.

Now that's funny.

A 3M cap hit in 2019 is about right for a 30 point player.

Do you want every single player on this team to be on their ELC? Complaining about Ryan strome’s cap hit seems like a massive stretch, even for a person like you.

 

[Ghost of jas]

A 3M cap hit in 2019 is about right for a 30 point player.

Do you want every single player on this team to be on their ELC? Complaining about Ryan strome’s cap hit seems like a massive stretch, even for a person like you.

At worst, much like Namestnikov, and probably Vesey, he’s a placeholder. And those players have value as this team starts climbing back to contention.

 

[NYR Viper]

There is for me. He’s done something Lias has failed to do so far...he’s earned the trust of the head coach. And that, more than anything else, is my biggest disappointment in Lias. He struck me as a player that a coach would feel comfortable playing in important situations, and could be relied upon. And, right now, I don’t see it. Howden, OTOH, is someone the coaching staff has full confidence in. And that’s one thing that separated Callahan and Dubinsky from the likes of Dawes, Prucha and Immonen.

And to be fair, Howden is a year older than Andersson

 

[Edge]

I think part of the concern with Lias was that he was pitched as an early developed player who we traded a lower ceiling for higher likelihood of success. 7a in the old HF system.

If he doesn't pan out, then it's a doubly bad pick

I don't know if I fully understand the whole doubly bad thing.

I think there's a lot of context that factors into this topic.

While I think most have always believed that Andersson had the higher floor, but lower ceiling compared to some of his contemporaries, I don't know if it's that black and white.

In other words, I'm not sure Andersson's floor is dramatically higher than some options and their ceiling is dramatically higher than Andersson's.

I think we can sometimes envision those gaps being bigger than what they are.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Even if the Rangers ‘give up’ on Andersson, and move him in a trade for a different piece that fits the puzzle better, he still had value, thereby making the pick a solid one.

Again, people need to not over examine the individual pieces and focus on the overall picture. If Gorton and company do this correctly, no one piece makes it successful and no one piece makes it a failure. As @Edge acknowledged before, it may be impersonal, but all of these kids are assets with value.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Howden roughly on a 25-30 pt pace for his rookie year even with the injury and huge slump. That kid is a player. He’s a 3C at worst. He’s shown far more than Lias ever has.

hey fun fact brickley is on pace for 27-35 points...hes shown more then howden and lias...future 2nd liner

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

hey fun fact brickley is on pace for 27-35 points...hes shown more then howden and lias...future 2nd liner

Yeah on is 26 the others are 20

try again

 

[NYR Viper]

I may get roasted for this, but does anyone else think Brickley should be re-signed? The guy has actually looked pretty good when he plays. Skates well, throws some nice hits and causes some turnovers. He and Boo on the 4th line would be 2/3 of a nice line.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Yeah on is 26 the others are 20

try again

dude its called sarcasm.....take a chill pill

it was a rebuttle to the fact that howden has put up more points then andersson this year

to further go off that lets not forget who howden has played with this year in comparison to who lias has played with, no shit he has put up more points then him so far

 

[Thirty One]

Do you want every single player on this team to be on their ELC?

Rhetorical question?

 

[True Blue]

I may get roasted for this, but does anyone else think Brickley should be re-signed? The guy has actually looked pretty good when he plays. Skates well, throws some nice hits and causes some turnovers. He and Boo on the 4th line would be 2/3 of a nice line.

You can make a case for him. I would rather have Boyle on the 4th line. But Brickley has fit in as a 4th liner.

 

[NYR Viper]

You can make a case for him. I would rather have Boyle on the 4th line. But Brickley has fit in as a 4th liner.

I mean I've even said I'd overpay Boyle on a 1 year deal to be a 4th liner on this team. I'd still take Brickley on the opposite side or as a 13th forward.

 

[duhmetreE]

Probably depends on how far we want to go back. In recent history we’d have Tavares. Post lockout you’d have to consider names like Chara, Gaborik and Hossa in the conversation. Maybe Parise and Suter. There are other names we can possibly include. In most cases you can make arguments for or against their inclusion, or debate where they rank in comparison to Panarin, but they’re close enough to flesh out some context.

Those teams were very much about taking the next step and trying to push through to that next level — starting immediately.

Are the Rangers at that point? No, I don’t think they are.

Should they be at that point? I’d say no, not yet.

Would they be at that point with Panarin? I’d say it’s far more likely than not it would push them in that direction. Which circles me back to whether they should be at this point, with the same answer I gave previously.

Even if we debate who we consider elite, or positions, or the age of the players we are discussing, there’s still not a precedent for signing a top free agent and going down the path of status quo or youth-oriented player development.

Personally, I think there’s a reason for that and it’s because the concepts are quite far apart.

and that's where the difference lie.

I think we should be taking the next step forward. I think the team/organization would want to be competing for a playoff spot next year. Maybe, I'm being overly optimistic.. but with a few decent moves, this team is winning games. I'd see us in the same light as Carolina. Not cup contenders but taking the next step

There could be more than 2 stages ( rebuild or win-now )

We're a big market team, imo graduating from a rebuild, with cap space. If he signs here, is a different story.

Adding front end talent, whether it be our own or a FA, and making a move or two for defense.. we can be competing. Is it that far fetched?

 

[duhmetreE]

As much as I'm super hard on Lias Andersson, there's absolutely nothing right now that indicates to me that Howden has secured a long-term spot over him.

They both really blow in the NHL right now and both have an unknown future.

You completely ignored his first 2 months?

 

[Mr Saji]

Andersson should have never left the AHL, and I say that because I wholeheartedly believe his development will hit it's stride next year and into 20-21. Even comparing him to Lemieux, who didn't start making noise in the AHL until he was 21. And Lias is outpacing him point wise in the AHL for his age as well. If you get a really hard nosed, two-way line that can line up against any line the league and still contribute points with these two, you take it and run. Still feel that pick is going to look great in two years, maybe not Kessel in his prime, but still a very valuable player.

 

[Machinehead]

There is for me. He’s done something Lias has failed to do so far...he’s earned the trust of the head coach. And that, more than anything else, is my biggest disappointment in Lias. He struck me as a player that a coach would feel comfortable playing in important situations, and could be relied upon. And, right now, I don’t see it. Howden, OTOH, is someone the coaching staff has full confidence in. And that’s one thing that separated Callahan and Dubinsky from the likes of Dawes, Prucha and Immonen.

Yeah that's true with Andersson. I expected him to have low point totals at this time, and maybe even being a bad play driver too, but the lack of things he was drafted for like the character, the grit, the doing things #DaRightWay is the really disappointing part.

I was dreading a situation where Lias was a bad player to start but the coach unconditionally loved him and I would shout "enough of f***ing Andersson already!" but even that would have been an improvement on what we got.

 

[Machinehead]

You completely ignored his first 2 months?

Howden was good for more like 15 games than 2 months, and the underlying numbers always indicated regression.

 

[duhmetreE]

I know @Edge is fine putting forth the arguments here (there is absolutely nothing condescending about content or tone of his posts) but you're just refusing to hear them. I made a similar point yesterday so let me jump in again - if an organization makes a commitment and investment to the tune of $11m per year (or something like $70m-$80m over the course of the contract) to a single player you can bet it changes the mindset. Staying the course? How likely is that? Maybe they'd be fine with this approach for a year but if the team will continue to have issues because they don't have 1RD or scoring depth to be a contender, would they "stay the course" or try to address these issues via UFAs and or trades? What type of personnel would they bring / be available and what "currency" would be used?

In this situation as far as rebuild is concerned, staying the course is definitely a more wild conjecture than a change in approach.

So we will be rebuilding for the duration of the contract?

When is the rebuild over? When will we be moving on to the next step? I'm not talking about being considered cup contenders, but the road before that.

You're seeing it as black and white. I see it more nuanced than just 'rebuild' or 'cup contention/win-now'

 

[Machinehead]

A 3M cap hit in 2019 is about right for a 30 point player.

Do you want every single player on this team to be on their ELC? Complaining about Ryan strome’s cap hit seems like a massive stretch, even for a person like you.

Player valuations on this site got stuck in 2012 somehow.

A good but not great player cost 7M per in 2019.

 

[Off Sides]

If he is willing I'd sign Brickley to a one way deal, even if he misses the NHL roster cut off, he is waived, if he passes through he is good for the AHL and as a NHL call-up.

Strome I have no idea why they would not just keep him unless a trade came up. Once his contract ends next off-season, just don't qualify him but offer him something lesser and short term. If he signs it, okay, if not let him walk as a UFA.

Vesey, Fast, are also going to be a UFAs next off-season, Not sure where that is going yet I'm not envisioning extensions all around. Parts of other deals before their contracts run out perhaps, some swap similar to that of Spooner/Strome maybe?

I don't think Andersson has the significant value to use to move up. Again maybe as part of some deal but as the prime piece or something that really moves the needle in a package, I'm not seeing it.

I kind of think the top 9 picks are just going to be off the table even if the Rangers included their own to move up. Those teams are likely to be seeing themselves as re-builders, or be fortunate to be picking there (fall in their lap sort of thing) , so I don't think any price for them is going to make sense.

Kreider plus something like the Jets 1st if Turcotte, Newhook, etc (whoever they like) are there past 9, is something I could see as plausible, should say Buffalo, Florida, Colorado have that pick. If the Rangers also need to take back a cap hit for a year or two to complete the deal, I'd go that route.