Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXXII

[NYR Viper]

Would anyone consider:

Skjei for Athanasiou + one of their 2nd rounders they have this year

I ask because Detroit seemingly has young forwards to spare and needs defense. Athanasiou is mainly a winger, 41 points in 63 games this year. RFA at the end of next year. He'd fit in well with the way Quinn wants to play. He had a tumultuous contract extension last go around with Detroit. 24 years old.

 

[Off Sides]

colorado's own first is what im targeting in a trade...they are going to get a pick no worse then top 5....their pick in the early teens is expendable in my opinion

Correct, me too, If they draft first overall and take Hughes, does their own pick go on the table for a NHL player to move back in the draft. If they need some cap relief too, I think that puts the Rangers in at least a plausible position to try to trade for it.

Then again maybe they want whoever is there.

Not like I think my musing are anything more than shots in the dark.

 

[GAGLine]

Oof, how I feel that line and the approaches it leads to has bit this franchise in the ass so many times over the years.

As for Skjei being a staight up trade. Sorry, I just don't see it. If Trouba is as good and as important as his supporters believe him to be, the cost isn't Brady Skjei.

Yeah, I get the worry that just because he's the best option available, or maybe the only option, that doesn't mean he's the right option. I'll leave that up to Gorton to decide.

The deal is predicated on Trouba refusing to re-sign long term in Winnipeg. They aren't going to trade him unless that happens, is my guess. Maybe my valuation is off, but I think it's close.

Gorton probably has something up his sleeve that none of us are discussing/thinking about.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think you start by giving it time. You see what you have, you don't force what you have, you continue to acquire assets and depth, you give those guys time to develop and then you see what your team looks like and fill in the gaps.

I do not believe we quite have enough depth to move forward after this draft.

I think we potentially have the depth, if it pans out, which is precisely why we need to wait and see. But at this point, we still don't know what it is we have or don't have.

As for the elongated rebuild: We are not Edmonton.

We're not the same market. We don't face the same challenges. We don't have the same front office. We don't have the same scouting staff.

We gotta stop using that example. It's a bad example. It's always been a bad example.

Frankly, just watching last night was a microcosm of how different the Rangers are from Edmonton. Quinn has already instilled a work ethic that is non-existent with the Oilers. The Rangers are not a very talented team. But, they work their asses off. And that’s been established by Quinn. This team won’t in any way resemble the Oiler team we watched last night.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Correct, me too, If they draft first overall and take Hughes, does their own pick go on the table for a NHL player to move back in the draft. If they need some cap relief too, I think that puts the Rangers in at least a plausible position to try to trade for it.

Then again maybe they want whoever is there.

Not like I think my musing are anything more than shots in the dark.

hahah thats why this thread is labeled specualtion

but i think even if they draft 2nd or 3rd theyd be willing to trade that other pick, they already have a ton of young players in their system and they are playing with house money

 

[Kovalev27]

I keep Strome for next year at least. Righty shot plays wing or center pks is an rfa and only 25 years old. He helps protect some of the young centers if they need a break or are struggling.

Namestnikov Vesey Fast should all go though. Fast you can keep till the deadline but no later. You can keep Vesey or namestnikov if you trade kreider but not both. Make a decision there.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, I get the worry that just because he's the best option available, or maybe the only option, that doesn't mean he's the right option. I'll leave that up to Gorton to decide.

The deal is predicated on Trouba refusing to re-sign long term in Winnipeg. They aren't going to trade him unless that happens, is my guess. Maybe my valuation is off, but I think it's close.

Gorton probably has something up his sleeve that none of us are discussing/thinking about.

I've generally found that the overlap of players the board targets, and the players the team targets is pretty small. It's nice when it happens, but it doesn't happen frequently.

Generally speaking, being prospect heavy brings with it plenty of inherent question marks. I'm less inclined to bring in too many question marks of the established variety on top of that.

If I'm going to swing bigger and bolder, I can't help but feel I'd want something more than McD-lite, with more durability issues, and a limited track record of performing in the role we'd be asking him to assume.

But that's just me.

 

[True Blue]

Forwards
Panarin, Zib, Kreider, 2019 top 5 pick, Buch, LA, Chytil, Strome, Vesey, Kravtsov, Boo, Howden, Lemieux I like that A lot.

Unless your top 5 pick is one of the first two picks, there's almost no chance that they play next year. Panarin will not make this team a contender next year. Or the year after that.

 

[Edge]

Frankly, just watching last night was a microcosm of how different the Rangers are from Edmonton. Quinn has already instilled a work ethic that is non-existent with the Oilers. The Rangers are not a very talented team. But, they work their asses off. And that’s been established by Quinn. This team won’t in any way resemble the Oiler team we watched last night.

One could argue we've found and utilized more young depth players in one year than Edmonton has in several. The difference is that Edmonton has a generational talent and a few other top draft picks.

 

[Thirty One]

Would anyone consider:

Skjei for Athanasiou + one of their 2nd rounders they have this year

I ask because Detroit seemingly has young forwards to spare and needs defense. Athanasiou is mainly a winger, 41 points in 63 games this year. RFA at the end of next year. He'd fit in well with the way Quinn wants to play. He had a tumultuous contract extension last go around with Detroit. 24 years old.

I definitely would. Don't see why Detroit would be interested, though.

 

[GAGLine]

None that I can think of that might be remotely available. Can't help but wonder though where Skjei's value is, does he have enough to be traded 1-for-1 for a better player who plays at a position with more scarcity?

If we just go based on talent and productivity, no, Skjei for Trouba isn't even. But I'm adding in that Trouba will refuse to sign long term in Winnipeg (they wouldn't trade him otherwise), and I'm adding in the fact that Skjei is cost controlled at a decent number for the next 5 years. IMO, that balances the scales, more or less.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

One could argue we've found and utilized more young depth players in one year than Edmonton has in several. The difference is that Edmonton has a generational talent and a few other top draft picks.

I mean Ryan Strome himself is an example of that. 2 points in 18 games with Edmonton, 23 in 50 with us.

 

[Off Sides]

My issue with Trouba, he is going to ask for a ton in his extension and I'm just not fully confident he is worth it.

If he does ask for a ton, doesn't that make whatever the Rangers should trade for him less?

I waiver on Skjei and did not really like his extension, yet him on a ~5M cap hit versus Trouba on say an ~8M cap hit, I'm not sure I think Trouba is a 3M cap hit better player even if the RD instead of LD is worked in there.

 

[Edge]

I mean Ryan Strome himself is an example of that. 2 points in 18 games with Edmonton, 23 in 50 with us.

And generally speaking, the big market clubs that have found themselves in rebuilds, have more or less come out the other side without becoming Edmonton.

Some have been better than others, but when you look at the clubs that keep getting stuck in neutral, they haven't typically been your larger markets. If anything, looking at the list I posted over in the draft thread, they cycle in and out of those slots.

Teams like Boston, Chicago, L.A., Toronto, etc. have had their share of high picks, but they've dove and come out the other side.

I find the Rangers, as a whole, have way more in common with those teams (both good and bad) than they do with Edmonton, or Carolina, or Colorado.

Obviously there were factors at work beyond market size that contributed to those teams succeeding, it would be false to claim there aren't. But our resources are somewhat comparable.

 

[Edge]

My issue with Trouba, he is going to ask for a ton in his extension and I'm just not fully confident he is worth it.

If he does ask for a ton, doesn't that make whatever the Rangers should trade for him less?

I waiver on Skjei and did not really like his extension, yet him on a ~5M cap hit versus Trouba on say an ~8M cap hit, I'm not sure I think Trouba is a 3M cap hit better player even if the RD instead of LD is worked in there.

You know, that's a good point.

The whole concept is Trouba wanting to get paid but the Jets possibly balking at the price, or not being able to make it work.

But that then becomes our dilemma. So even if we get beyond what it would cost to get him, we still have to sign the guy (despite some of the concerns I expressed).

 

[Off Sides]

You know, that's a good point.

The whole concept is Trouba wanting to get paid but the Jets possibly balking at the price, or not being able to make it work.

But that then becomes our dilemma. So even if we get beyond what it would cost to get him, we still have to sign the guy (despite some of the concerns I expressed).

Thanks for sounding surprised

Any trade for him I think would have to come with an extension already in place, no way the Rangers should be trading value for something that could walk next off-season. I believe that extension should reflect in the trade value going the other way. Trouba on a 6M cap hit is worth way more than him on a 8 or 9M cap hit.

 

[NYR Viper]

I definitely would. Don't see why Detroit would be interested, though.

Their defensive prospect list is pretty dismal, whereas their forward prospect list is pretty deep. Zadina, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Larkin, Rasmusson and then they have Veleno on the way. Helm, Abdelkader and Nielson are still around for a while. Their immediate need is on the back-end.

 

[Ola]

No one is throwing him away. But, the reality is that not every player drafted is going to be a part of the final product, and that includes players taken in the first round.

Of course not, and Lias has his challenges like every other kid.

A few things:

1. Lias was pitched as an early developed player by guys that saw that he had played a full year in the SHL and done well.

However, compared to like Kevin Fiala who were on the same team plus minus a few years, Lias obviously played on those teams for two reasons only: him being tremendously smart and gifted. You know a coach dream type. But his skating and motor and conditioning etc were definitely — not — further ahead of his peers. His smarts yes, definitely not his overall physics.

2. I think it’s nonsense that Lias isn’t developing. There are a lot of notions thrown around out there with little or no connection with reality. Lias didn’t take his demotion to the AHL well? According to who? There is no basis for that notion whatsoever, besides a lower production. Could easily have come from an injury, him slumping, playing for a worthless team etc.

I think Lias definitely is exhibiting more of a bite in his skating. It’s definitely going in the right direction. See no reason for why it should stop there.

If also think Lias must work a little on his rythm/moving pattern on the ice. He hasn’t played much against his peers the last years. He is a little too focused on getting into the sweet spots, back home to make sure that he does his job defensively and infront of the net to get goals. Want to see him get involved more, play a style that enables him to take a bigger role on the ice.

3. Lastly, the dumbest notion in hockey is that top 10-15 picks or whatever doesn’t have to be developed. So many — really, so many, it shouldn’t go unnoticed — must be developed and must be given time. Why should a 7th overall pick be different?

EDM isn’t developing their guys, they rush them to the NHL and store them on a depth line waiting for the players to ‘figure it out’. As a result every other top pick they have busts, like one pick the last decade outside the top 8 have made it to the NHL (Klefbom), nobody is exceeding expectations and so forth.

The marginals are so small in today’s game, that when you draft a kid you — must — be able to put in the time with that kid. Give him time to round out his game, in stages provide him with a bigger and bigger role he can develop in, always with a sufficient support, and just give it the time it takes.

It’s just one game, but the last time I saw Nolan Patrick play he didn’t have a good night. Didn’t look good. Hirscher is doing well. Mittlestad is doing OK. Petersson has been sick. Heiskanen. Thomas OK. Everyone else is out the league still, more or less. In October 2017 some were totally freaking out because Lias wasn’t ready to be 2C. We need to manage our expectations better, understand more what it means to pick at certain spots in the 1st round.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Lemieux took the one spot I thought Lias might be penciled for in this new core group. Third line left wing. But as expected he was passed by a better player. This will only continue when we most likely add 3 or 4 more prospects in the top 60 picks this summer.

Howden is a much better player. He’s the 3C of this core going forward. Lias is not playing over him ever.

At this point he’s probably the 4C if he’s lucky but Morgan Barron may even be a better player this time next year.

If Howden can improve his strength and skating, you will see really good player.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think you start by giving it time. You see what you have, you don't force what you have, you continue to acquire assets and depth, you give those guys time to develop and then you see what your team looks like and fill in the gaps.

I do not believe we quite have enough depth to move forward after this draft.

I think we're close to potentially having the depth, if it pans out, which is precisely why we need to wait and see. But at this point, we still don't know what it is we have or don't have.

As for the elongated rebuild: We are not Edmonton.

We're not the same market. We don't face the same challenges. We don't have the same front office. We don't have the same scouting staff.

We gotta stop using that example. It's a bad example. It's always been a bad example.

If I were Gorton, I would prepare for success. I believe we should set ourselves up, anticipating enough of the kids panning out. Of course things change over the course of the way and we will need to adapt.

If the kids do not pan out, with or without Panarin, we're in trouble. Gorton and Quinn are both gone and we try again. This is where the EDM, COL and BUF comparisons come into play.

If we plan for success and the picks pan out? What happens?
If we sit back and wait and the picks pan out? What happens?
If we plan for success and the picks do not pan out. What happens?
If we sit back and wait and the picks do not pan out. What happens?

I think, on the contrary, you're claiming I'm not hearing or understanding.

The outcomes are similar with or without Panarin BUT I view Panarin as a potentiator and a piece we're lacking.

He's the potential x-factor in a 'cup contender', 2-3 years from now. He's makes the transition easier and passes the torch to the young kids.

We're repeating the same things. This is all subject to Panarin actually agreeing to play here.

3-4 months to see what Gorton does.

 

[Edge]

Thanks for sounding surprised

Any trade for him I think would have to come with an extension already in place, no way the Rangers should be trading value for something that could walk next off-season. I believe that extension should reflect in the trade value going the other way. Trouba on a 6M cap hit is worth way more than him on a 8 or 9M cap hit.

I'm functioning on 3 hours of sleep.

I'll consider it a good day if most of what I type is coherent.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm functioning on 3 hours of sleep.

I'll consider it a good day if most of what I type is coherent.

I was just kidding around, mostly based on yesterdays postings that caused some angst.

 

[MetalJaws]

Unless your top 5 pick is one of the first two picks, there's almost no chance that they play next year. Panarin will not make this team a contender next year. Or the year after that.

I respectfully disagree.

Quinn has done a great job with this team. Players are drinking his coolaid and responding well.

The Rangers have had one 70pt player since 2009. That being Gaborik, once. Panarin would greatly increase the production of his line and most likely produce 70Pts or greater. Making Zib turn god mode on and boosting Offensive production and power play production. Another year of ADA, Hajek, LA, Chytil , Kravtsov and getting a top 5 pick progressing is an added bonus. Hank/Georgiev and Shesty is an intriguing combo as well. I can easily see them as a bubble team in 19-20 but 20-21 that team could make some noise as the Caps and Pens get older. I don't think a 20-21 PO bid is out of the question at all.

I mean, we're both Rangos fans so we'd like it to happen sooner rather than later.

 

[TheTakedown]

Have a friend within the Peg Org. He does not think they will be able to resign Trouba long term and that they will deal him in the offseason. He knows the Rangers have big interest here. There will of course be other suitors, but we got a lot of ammo to pull this off. I am thinking there is a good chance this comes to fruition. I got no indication as to what he might fetch, but he thought it would be completed before the start of next season to avoid locker room distractions. Asking what Trouba want$, he just replied “a lot, too rich for Chevy”.

Lets.f***ing.Go!!!

Skjei-Trouba
Staal-DeAngelo
Claesson-Pionk
Smith

 

[Winston2018]

Would anyone consider:

Skjei for Athanasiou + one of their 2nd rounders they have this year

I ask because Detroit seemingly has young forwards to spare and needs defense. Athanasiou is mainly a winger, 41 points in 63 games this year. RFA at the end of next year. He'd fit in well with the way Quinn wants to play. He had a tumultuous contract extension last go around with Detroit. 24 years old.

I would like to use Brady to fill gaps around ADA in the form of a right defensemen. Libor covers Bradys minutes and let the rest battle it out on LD.