Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXX

[NYR Viper]

He's been rookie season Kakko level bad so far this year.

I really don't get it. I look around at guys like Dach, Lundell, Zegras and many others and they just appear to have more flash to their games. They are creating chances even if they aren't scoring and they are pushing defenders back to create space. Neither Kaako or Lafreniere do that with regularity. It's beyond concerning.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I really don't get it. I look around at guys like Dach, Lundell, Zegras and many others and they just appear to have more flash to their games. They are creating chances even if they aren't scoring and they are pushing defenders back to create space. Neither Kaako or Lafreniere do that with regularity. It's beyond concerning.

Is it time to start looking at the development staff and clean house? It doesn’t look like a coincidence anymore that so many young players are struggling.

 

[MrAlmost]

This team might end up worse off in the long run because of Strome and Panarin.

 

[Synergy27]

It’s just ridiculously disappointing that we’re still having the same conversation about Laf lacking flash and being invisible. There has been basically zero progression from last season.

Many of us have been voicing these concerns from the beginning. We were told that his development and draft year were unprecedented and that we need to be patient. We are being told the same right now.

As I did last year, I simply ask, for those that remain unconcerned, when do you become concerned? What if we are in this exact same spot next NYE?

There was a play last night where Laf got squeezed on the boards (as usual) but didn’t fall down. I said out loud to my wife “wow, he didn’t fall down, that’s progress!”. Then he fell down.

This is where we are with our 1OA.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Is it time to start looking at the development staff and clean house? It doesn’t look like a coincidence anymore that so many young players are struggling.

Already did that, the problem we have is old man sather wants to win the cup every year and we end up putting players on the roster before they are ready so we can afford big name players.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It’s just ridiculously disappointing that we’re still having the same conversation about Laf lacking flash and being invisible. There has been basically zero progression from last season.

Many of us have been boxing these concerns from the beginning. We were told that his development and draft year were unprecedented and that we need to be patient. We are being told the same right now.

As I did last year, I simply ask, for those that remain unconcerned, when do you become concerned? What if we are in this exact same spot next NYE?

Tell me who compliments a guy that plays a give and go game on his line? Chytil....nope....Gauthier...nope. He either needs better linemates or a new line.

 

[Raspewtin]

I just don't care right now. This organization just takes takes f***ing takes. Every young player we have busting is just icing on the cake.

 

[Synergy27]

Tell me who compliments a guy that plays a give and go game on his line? Chytil....nope....Gauthier...nope. He either needs better linemates or a new line.

Shouldn’t 1OA talents elevate their line mates? Shouldn’t they be linemate proof? Shouldn’t they be skilled enough to adapt their game to the situation?

 

[ETTER DE]

I assume you mean take advantage of our extra veto space this year and Montreal likely wanting to shake up things? Because despite some flaws, Gorton is a great judge of talent. I don’t think Drury is going to outfox Gorton.

I was more thinking about taking advantage of the situation. Have been watching the Gazzettes hockey show on Youtube. The panel which includes Stu Cowan and former player and ass. coach Rick Green believes that Gorton would be willing to retain a lot of money on some contracts. With Rangers cap situation maybe trades like that is what Drury have to make.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I really don't get it. I look around at guys like Dach, Lundell, Zegras and many others and they just appear to have more flash to their games. They are creating chances even if they aren't scoring and they are pushing defenders back to create space. Neither Kaako or Lafreniere do that with regularity. It's beyond concerning.

For my money, it's a confidence thing that goes back to organizational priorities and questionable commitment to development. The confidence factor is tough to measure but I believe it is real. I mean Lafreniere had 10 points in 5 games in the WJC in his pre-draft year. Small sample size sure but that translates to a special player in the vast, vast majority of cases.

The trajectory that most other 1OA picks the last 20 odd years typically follow has been shattered (junior stud -> top pick -> significant if not top role in the NHL on the ice and in the locker room).

Kakko IMO is similar. Look at this clip of PP work starting at 1:10 here, I believe Kakko's first preseason game:



Yes that is actually Kakko working the right half wall on the PP. Looking to aggressively make plays. Panarin and Trouba actively looking to help him do so. PP looks incredibly dangerous.

Yet shortly after this David Quinn presumably with the support of the entire NYR organization removed him from PP1. I believe shortly after this game if not immediately after this game, I'm sure someone will call me out if that is wrong. Kakko's 2:14 PP TOI in his rookie year was 15th lowest (out of 23) of any top 2 pick in their rookie year over the last 15 drafts. Lafreniere ranked 20th on that list.

In a vacuum that decision is fine - Quinn is coaching to win. The NYR had the 7th best PP in the league in 2019-20. But the reality is that Kakko and Lafreniere have been developed differently than comparable top prospects. Most other "rebuilding" teams would leave Kakko in that role for a significant period of time after seeing the PP look so dangerous. Not doing so was part of a conscious decision by the organization to try to stay competitive by rebuilding. How can we assume this had no impact on his confidence?

That shortcut strategy to "compete while rebuilding" is looking questionable to me at the present moment. If these kids don't break through it will be proof that it is impossible to rebuild in NY, not because of impatience by the fans but because of impatience and short-sightedness by ownership.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Shouldn’t 1OA talents elevate their line mates? Shouldn’t they be linemate proof? Shouldn’t they be skilled enough to adapt their game to the situation?

Both players lack any creativity, you give them the puck you will never get it back and its not going in the net. You can't play with those types and expect results. You are essentially putting him on the 4th line. The kid looked his best the night Panarin got hurt and there's an obvious reason for that, he got to play with like minded players with vision. He would even look better with Goodrow and Rooney than what he's dealing with.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Maybe they should start their power plays with the second unit and then follow up with the top unit. But still I can see it now: Chytil loses the face off like he usually does, Rangers keep dumping it in, can’t get in the zone, then the top unit comes out for the final minute. I don’t know what to say, I’m just very disappointed in the development of our youth.

 

[SA16]

The problem isn't the PP units. It isn't their 5v5 line. It's their play. Just putting them in a bigger role isn't going to change that.

 

[mas0764]

This team might end up worse off in the long run because of Strome and Panarin.

It needs to figure out the right approach to HAVING Panarin.

It thinks it can win with him as it's superstar. Plus Fox, Shesterkin, and Zibanejad, then guys like Strome and Kreider in support.

The team is wrong. It can't win with that. That group is like a second round playoff exit team. It's not deep enough. It doesn't have enough talent at forward. Not even close, really.

Until Laf, Kakko, Chytil and Kravtsov all start playing like first liners or near first liners, the team doesn't have enough talent. And given it's record so far that is either not going to happen soon or not ever. So it needs to quit this delusion of winning in the next 2 seasons, its not gonna happen.

Panarin should be the pressure-alleviation from the kids. Zibanejad now has to stay cause of that contract.

The other big pieces who aren't able to push the team over the top, but also won't be here in 4 years, need to be moved on from - Trouba, Strome, Kreider, Buch was the right idea but the wrong target in trade.

The team needs to accept that this incarnation is flawed and will not win. If all they want is second round exits, fine, but they can turn themselves into a winner much faster in the long run by continuing to chase elite forward talent.

 

[mas0764]

The problem isn't the PP units. It isn't their 5v5 line. It's their play. Just putting them in a bigger role isn't going to change that.

Putting them in better situations 5-on-5 may develop their 5V5 play quicker.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

For my money, it's a confidence thing that goes back to organizational priorities and questionable commitment to development. The confidence factor is tough to measure but I believe it is real. I mean Lafreniere had 10 points in 5 games in the WJC in his pre-draft year. Small sample size sure but that translates to a special player in the vast, vast majority of cases.

The trajectory that most other 1OA picks the last 20 odd years typically follow has been shattered (junior stud -> top pick -> significant if not top role in the NHL on the ice and in the locker room).

Kakko IMO is similar. Look at this clip of PP work starting at 1:10 here, I believe Kakko's first preseason game:



Yes that is actually Kakko working the right half wall on the PP. Looking to aggressively make plays. Panarin and Trouba actively looking to help him do so. PP looks incredibly dangerous.

Yet shortly after this David Quinn presumably with the support of the entire NYR organization removed him from PP1. I believe shortly after this game if not immediately after this game, I'm sure someone will call me out if that is wrong. Kakko's 2:14 PP TOI in his rookie year was 15th lowest (out of 23) of any top 2 pick in their rookie year over the last 15 drafts. Lafreniere ranked 20th on that list.

In a vacuum that decision is fine - Quinn is coaching to win. The NYR had the 7th best PP in the league in 2019-20. But the reality is that Kakko and Lafreniere have been developed differently than comparable top prospects. Most other "rebuilding" teams would leave Kakko in that role for a significant period of time after seeing the PP look so dangerous. Not doing so was part of a conscious decision by the organization to try to stay competitive by rebuilding. How can we assume this had no impact on his confidence?

That shortcut strategy to "compete while rebuilding" is looking questionable to me at the present moment. If these kids don't break through it will be proof that it is impossible to rebuild in NY, not because of impatience by the fans but because of impatience and short-sightedness by ownership.

Was at this game and was drooling over Kakko. Obviously it was against a pretty bad opponent since it was preseason. That being said, there is a lot of truth around building up the young guys. I think a lot of offensive confidence and swagger is built from the powerplay, and THEN out to even strength. I think it's a bad long term strategy to keep them stuffed behind the first unit. What happens when Panarin, Zibby ect decline or leave? Just feel like it would be better to have some short term pain on PP1 and get these guys going.

 

[DanielBrassard]

The problem isn't the PP units. It isn't their 5v5 line. It's their play. Just putting them in a bigger role isn't going to change that.

Yeah, I don't think putting them in a bigger role is going to transform them when they are looking as inept as they are. I think far too much is made of a players role sometimes. If you are going to play well, you will do so no matter the role.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Is there any reason we should expect Chytil to be the future 2C of this team at this point? I just don't see it.

No

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Yeah, I don't think putting them in a bigger role is going to transform them when they are looking as inept as they are. I think far too much is made of a players role sometimes. If you are going to play well, you will do so no matter the role.

This is just simply not true. It's not true in life and it is not true in the game of hockey. The NHL is the best league in the world, the players are all people and human beings with thoughts, feelings, emotions that all contribute to how they play on the ice. For a player to hit their potential, they need to not only possess the skill necessary, but they need to be placed in the best position to do so, which is where role comes in to play. I'm not saying just outright bench Artemi and play Laffy 20 mins a night, but I do think they need some PP1 time to build some confidence.

Sure, they're not playing great right now, but truly great players rise to the occasion when they are needed. You see it at all levels of hockey. Laffy clearly is not playing with confidence right now and I believe it has everything to do with his role and how he is utilized. A great example for Laffy would be the WJC. In 2019, he was utilized as a depth player, who got 10 mins a night. He was invisible, not a contributor at all. The very next year in 2020 he became "the guy" on team Canada at the WJC. He was demanding the puck and dominated in that tourney, with 10 points in 5 games and being a physical presence to boot. His skill was the same, and sure he grew and matured a year in the meantime, but role meant everything. That's the type of change I'm waiting for in Laffy's game in the NHL, because right now he's playing like he did in the 2019 WJC. Maybe with an increased role(namely, just some time on PP1), we can unleash beast Laffy.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Who the hell blocks Ed Jovanoski?

Dale Purinton

 

[jay from jersey]

This is just simply not true. It's not true in life and it is not true in the game of hockey. The NHL is the best league in the world, the players are all people and human beings with thoughts, feelings, emotions that all contribute to how they play on the ice. For a player to hit their potential, they need to not only possess the skill necessary, but they need to be placed in the best position to do so, which is where role comes in to play. I'm not saying just outright bench Artemi and play Laffy 20 mins a night, but I do think they need some PP1 time to build some confidence.

Sure, they're not playing great right now, but truly great players rise to the occasion when they are needed. You see it at all levels of hockey. Laffy clearly is not playing with confidence right now and I believe it has everything to do with his role and how he is utilized. A great example for Laffy would be the WJC. In 2019, he was utilized as a depth player, who got 10 mins a night. He was invisible, not a contributor at all. The very next year in 2020 he became "the guy" on team Canada at the WJC. He was demanding the puck and dominated in that tourney, with 10 points in 5 games and being a physical presence to boot. His skill was the same, and sure he grew and matured a year in the meantime, but role meant everything. That's the type of change I'm waiting for in Laffy's game in the NHL, because right now he's playing like he did in the 2019 WJC. Maybe with an increased role(namely, just some time on PP1), we can unleash beast Laffy.

Been saying this for a while...
If they resign strome, it basically screw kakko/ and mainly LaF cause I think he would get Stromes place on the PP, for at least the next 4-5 seasons.
You don’t want to do that with you 1 and 2 OV guys who were drafted for their offensive talent.
Will LaF being on the 1PP cure all that ails his game? No but it’s big.
Big for his confidence, hunger, experience etc
I’m not say to just put LaF and kakko on 3rd lone and go play hockey..... even though there is an argument for that. A lot of teams do it with top rookies/young guys.
But they def need something to shake up the stangnent offensive.
Getting LaF some easier points/shots for his confidence is key.
Right now, Lafs skating is sub-par, he doesn’t have any real chemistry with his linemates, ( good play with chytil is few and far between), and his offensive confidence is brown toilet water atm.
I’m not calling him a bust, or even demanding AHL time, but he needs to be put in better positions to succeed.
Where, How, and who with? Is up for debate

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

So a team with some missing components that is maybe a year away from prime time losses to a contender while playing a close game and all of the negativity and ghosts of Rick Middleton/Ridley and Miller/Zubov trades and the Jessiman and McLIrath picks come out?

Color me surprised.

Expectations people: this team is supposed to be the 4th best in their division and make the playoffs not win the Cup. And if Pittsburgh gets hot guess what? The Rangers will be....4th in their division and a WC team in the playoffs.

I know it was an ugly outcome, the world is messed up with omicron, and generally everyone is either fatigued end of year or a little down, plus if you live in the Northeast it's grey and disgusting today, but relax.

This is the rough part of the schedule. They will have a shot at Tampa playing two in two nights and with maybe a 3rd or 4th string goalie, and yes Edmonton or "Electronic Dance Music" as their abbreviation is has the most dangerous players in the world, but they've been awful lately and hopefully Lindgren is back.

Go to the gym, take a walk, or listen to the wisdom of Eddie Murphy and "Have a coke, smile, and........."

 

[LORDE]

I really don't get it. I look around at guys like Dach, Lundell, Zegras and many others and they just appear to have more flash to their games. They are creating chances even if they aren't scoring and they are pushing defenders back to create space. Neither Kaako or Lafreniere do that with regularity. It's beyond concerning.

Been saying this for a while now... "beyond concerning" is a very appropriate way of putting it.

 

[bhamill]

Geez. Lose a one goal game to one of the best teams in the league and half this board is on suicide watch. This team, which is no where near a finished product yet, IMO, is third in our division, sixth in the conference and league overall. That's a GOOD thing. But even when the team wins 75% of the posts seem negative. Look I'm not saying anyone should be blind to the shortcomings, but being blind to the positives and focusing only on the bad shit is no better. And it makes this place exponentially less fun. Unless you like endless complaining and negativity of course, and some people do.

I mean calling Lafrenierre a bust in the making is really kind of wild. His D+ years have been COVID central. NOTHING is normal. AND he's playing on a team much better than most first or second year 1OA players do, hence he's not relied on, doesn't get PP time or extended 5v5 time with top 6 linemates. His linemates are NOT an advantage for him. Yet he's tied for fourth on the team in goals. Including a couple of game winners. I isolated on him at times last night and he was getting open in the O zone down low with a wide open net in front of him repeatedly, but no one on his line can get him the puck. Gauthier and Chytil can make chances for themselves at times, but don't really generate chances for their linemates or goals for that matter. I really am not worried about him, he's going to be fine. Kakko too. Chytil I'm having my doubts about, though IMO it's a little early to give up on him.

NYR will likely make the playoffs, and likely lose in the first round. And that is fine. Hopefully in 2022 or 23 they nab a good center prospect in the draft or spend some D prospect capital on one. I'd expect them to start making more noise next year and start to be truly dangerous the year after. I hope we all survive till then.

 

[LORDE]

The COVID excuses for Laf are so lame.

EVERYONE on the planet is dealing with COVID... including everyone else in his draft class. He looks like shit and has looked like shit for 2 seasons now and it isn't because he is dealing w COVID while the rest of us are just living a "normal" life.