Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXX

[TheBloodyNine]

Say they completely strip the team and finish dead last but don't win the lottery. Then what? Say they win the lottery and there's no elite player available at 1oa? Say they get that player, what kind of environment are you adding him to? If this were the NFL where the worst team is guaranteed the top pick, sure. But it's not. And I don't think using Chicago or Pittsburgh (which, by the way the year they got Crosby the Rangers should have gotten him but got screwed) is being completely honest. There are teams that suck, get high picks and do nothing with those picks. Purposely tanking is just as risky as loading up on high priced FAs. Nothing is guaranteed. The Rangers will have off loaded their #1 D and 5 top 6 forwards in less than two years. That's not enough of a rebuild?

If they don't win the lottery then the lowest they will be is 4 and that would still be an elite draft pick in this draft.

 

[Tawnos]

If you don't think those teams have been poorly managed you have not been watching hockey very long. Bad UFA signings, Bad Trades, Bad Cap Management, Bad Coaching, Bad (later round) draft choices, Bad roster makeup and decisions. Those teams have ALL of that in common.

Also, there is the fact that NO team wins unless they have good management from the top down, which should be abundantly clear.

The main thing we should be paying attention to is their later round failures. Most of the bad UFA, trade, roster makeup stuff all stems from that. If you look at the Panthers previous rebuild, for example... sure they had 4 first rounders that never turned into top-6/top-4 players. (Olesz, Taticek, Stewart, Krajicek)... but they also had only 1 player outside of the first round who was an impactful player... and that was David Booth. The next best players they drafted outside of the first round were Greg Campbell and Tanner Glass... 4th liners. And not a single NHL defenseman. Weiss, Horton and Bouwmeester were only enough to bring the team to the edge of competitiveness. That's also partially because they had the awful luck of none of those totally reasonable top-5 picks becoming elite players.

When you look at all of those teams, this is the root of all their problems.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

There is Byfield. If there is a year to tank for us, it's next year.

(And this year for Kaako ...)

 

[TheBloodyNine]

We're just not bad enough. That's the reality and that's where the differences lie here. No one is arguing with getting top picks.

To become as bad as the current bottom 5, it'd take sabotage/bad management or injuries. We have a floor with what's in place and with what Quinn demands.

Well we're about to lose two of our top 4 players by Monday, likely McQuaid as well and possibly even more if the price is right, so I don't think they're going to be getting any better that's for sure.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The main thing we should be paying attention to is their later round failures. Most of the bad UFA, trade, roster makeup stuff all stems from that. If you look at the Panthers previous rebuild, for example... sure they had 4 first rounders that never turned into top-6/top-4 players. (Olesz, Taticek, Stewart, Krajicek)... but they also had only 1 player outside of the first round who was an impactful player... and that was David Booth. The next best players they drafted outside of the first round were Greg Campbell and Tanner Glass... 4th liners. And not a single NHL defenseman. Weiss, Horton and Bouwmeester were only enough to bring the team to the edge of competitiveness. That's also partially because they had the awful luck of none of those totally reasonable top-5 picks becoming elite players.

When you look at all of those teams, this is the root of all their problems.

The Oilers are also incredibly guilty of this. Their management couldn't pick a guy outside of Round 1 if you held a gun to their heads.

 

[duhmetreE]

If they don't win the lottery then the lowest they will be is 4 and that would still be an elite draft pick in this draft.

We wont get close to the bottom 3

 

[Tawnos]

The Oilers are also incredibly guilty of this. Their management couldn't pick a guy outside of Round 1 if you held a gun to their heads.

Yeah. And when you realize that most of the bad signings, trades, etc are about them trying to make up for their failures in that area, it's clear that the draft is the root of the problems.

The Oilers did get unlucky in 2 of the 4 first overalls not being worthy of the slot, but either way... I agree.

 

[Thirty One]

Bob says the Bobcast in the next 10 minutes or so.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Also, since the new lottery rules were implemented starting 2016, the team with the worst record has picked 1st overall 2 times out of 3.

 

[Off Sides]

Edmonton, Buffalo, Edge of the everglades of Florida.

These are rich young players, many of whom have models as wives or could be.

 

[duhmetreE]

The main thing we should be paying attention to is their later round failures. Most of the bad UFA, trade, roster makeup stuff all stems from that. If you look at the Panthers previous rebuild, for example... sure they had 4 first rounders that never turned into top-6/top-4 players. (Olesz, Taticek, Stewart, Krajicek)... but they also had only 1 player outside of the first round who was an impactful player... and that was David Booth. The next best players they drafted outside of the first round were Greg Campbell and Tanner Glass... 4th liners. And not a single NHL defenseman. Weiss, Horton and Bouwmeester were only enough to bring the team to the edge of competitiveness. That's also partially because they had the awful luck of none of those totally reasonable top-5 picks becoming elite players.

When you look at all of those teams, this is the root of all their problems.

The two top teams in the league have a 2nd and 4th rounder leading them offensively.

You would assume that a team like the NYR, with nearly unlimited resources, would be able to find some of these gems.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If they don't win the lottery then the lowest they will be is 4 and that would still be an elite draft pick in this draft.

Since 09 (not counting the 18 draft), here's who was taken at 4:

E. Kane
Johansen
Larrson
Reinhart
Jones
Bennet
Hanafin
Puljarvi

How many are elite?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Since 09 (not counting the 18 draft), here's who was taken at 4:

E. Kane
Johansen
Larrson
Reinhart
Jones
Bennet
Hanafin
Puljarvi

How many are elite?

Pretty sure I was talking about THIS draft and not those drafts but deflect away.

Seth Jones is a pretty damn good player. So are Hanafin and Johansen. Kane has been a 30 goal scorer multiple times. Reinhart is starting to come into his own on Buffalo.

 

[mrhockey193195]

The two top teams in the league have a 2nd and 4th rounder leading them offensively.

You would assume that a team like the NYR, with nearly unlimited resources, would be able to find some of these gems.

The Rangers, over the past decade and a half, have been one of the better teams at finding middle-6/bottom-6 forwards and bottom-4 defensemen in the later round (i.e., rounds 3 and beyond). We've been terrible at finding elite talent in any round, round 1 included.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Since 09 (not counting the 18 draft), here's who was taken at 4:

E. Kane
Johansen
Larrson
Reinhart
Jones
Bennet
Hanafin
Puljarvi

How many are elite?

Just one. I don't consider RyJo to be elite. Very good, not elite.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Since 09 (not counting the 18 draft), here's who was taken at 4:

E. Kane
Johansen
Larrson
Reinhart
Jones
Bennet
Hanafin
Puljarvi

How many are elite?

like 3 easily

 

[Thirty One]

Just one. I don't consider RyJo to be elite. Very good, not elite.

Only Larsson then?

 

[Ola]

[...]I am in a meeting so if you want [...]

Guys and girls, bring out the nudes.

Here is one I have used at a couple of sites:
www.pictures.com/VikingOlaDaCoola36.jpeg

 

[LORDE]

Instead of Tank vs No Tank crowd we should call the groups

Guarantees

Vs

Higher probability

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I don't understand the notion that being bad enough to fail is somehow a "risk." What are we risking? If we decide to be bad we might not win the cup? We aren't winning the cup this year and we aren't winning it next year either. Where's the "risk" involved?

 

[mrhockey193195]

Pretty sure I was talking about THIS draft and not those drafts but deflect away.

Seth Jones is a pretty damn good player. So are Hanafin and Johansen. Kane has been a 30 goal scorer multiple times. Reinhart is starting to come into his own on Buffalo.

None of those players change a franchise though, which is what many pro-tank fans are expecting (and use as their argument for tanking and getting a top-4 pick).

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Pretty sure I was talking about THIS draft and not those drafts but deflect away.

Seth Jones is a pretty damn good player. So are Hanafin and Johansen. Kane has been a 30 goal scorer multiple times. Reinhart is starting to come into his own on Buffalo.

But not elite. Just like you don't know if this year's #4 will ever become elite either. Would I love the 4th pick, yes. Am I willing to tear the team down to the studs and purposely ice an AHL squad for that opportunity? No way.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The Rangers, over the past decade and a half, have been one of the better teams at finding middle-6/bottom-6 forwards and bottom-4 defensemen in the later round (i.e., rounds 3 and beyond). We've been terrible at finding elite talent in any round, round 1 included.

And this is the point right here. Combine the Ranger's depth drafting with another team's high 1st's and you would have the makings of a good team.

 

[duhmetreE]

The Rangers, over the past decade and a half, have been one of the better teams at finding middle-6/bottom-6 forwards and bottom-4 defensemen in the later round (i.e., rounds 3 and beyond). We've been terrible at finding elite talent in any round, round 1 included.

Well to be somewhat fair, we have been giving up A LOT of our picks.

but I'd raid TB org and pay all of their scouts

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The Rangers, over the past decade and a half, have been one of the better teams at finding middle-6/bottom-6 forwards and bottom-4 defensemen in the later round (i.e., rounds 3 and beyond). We've been terrible at finding elite talent in any round, round 1 included.

And this is the point right here. Combine the Ranger's depth drafting with another team's high 1st's and you would have the makings of a good team. You don't need to find Kucherov in the 2nd round.