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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVIII

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RangerBoy said:
The Rangers are a clueless organization. Is there a plan in place? They are all over the map. They trade Stepan for futures because they were concerned with where his game was trending. Are the Rangers rebuilding? No. The Rangers tried to acquire Bozak or sign Thornton to replace Stepan. Their plan wasn’t to give Hayes the added responsibility. Gorton signs Smith and Shattenkirk to 4 year contracts. Seven months later Gorton says the team will rebuild/ refresh/retool. The Rangers are really considering buying out both players less than two years after signing them? Why did they sign them?

The Rangers spent so much currency on using 1st rounders on centers and acquired another 1st rounder in the Tampa deal. If they keep Hayes, they have no room for their young centers to play for the a while. They have room for one young center to play in their top 9. Andersson’s agent should request for a trade out of the Rangers organization. Chytil will be stuck on the wing which isn’t his natural position. He is learning to play wing in the NHL and the coach says his level has dropped. Ok.
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Occams razor dude...

Don't buy the plant.
 
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haohmaru said:
I've said this throughout the season - if the returns aren't there for Hayes or Zuccarello, then they should just re-sign them and move along. Hayes is youngish C who's had a heck of a season and is playing like a 2C. Zooks is Zooks. If you're not getting enough back for them there's no reason to trade them. 45th-62nd pick and a middling prospect for Zuccarello isn't enough to move a guy that loves it here and has shown that pretty much throughout his career. I don't think his "decline" will be all that magnified. The smaller guys usually don't. If the phone calls for Hayes aren't including a 1st + blue chip prospect then I'm not moving him either. Rebuilding is about acquiring assets, it's also about making the team better. The Rangers have a lot of picks already coming up and probably more being stockpiled this deadline with McQuaid, possibly Namestnikov, and possibly others that we aren't aware of. The young defenseman are getting games and experience. A rebuild isn't only about future assets, it's also about hanging on to the right "veterans" and developing a winning culture. I'll admit that this team is more competitive than I thought they'd be and the effort, usually, is there.

Zooks and Hayes don't have to be traded. They only have to if it makes sense.
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The Rangers should keep Hayes, Kreider and Zuccarello. Long term contracts for all of them with NMC and full NTC. The Rangers aren’t winning anything with Zibanejad and the other 3.

Maybe there is a reason why the offers for Zuccarello and Hayes appear little. Maybe they are a little bit overrated by the Rangers fans. It would be the first time certain players were overrated.
 
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Brooks, for some ungodly reason, keeps pushing the extension angle for these guys. Please. Seems like Gorton is doing part of the dance in at least feeling out their terms. Article says they’re still far apart, thank goodness. Time’s up.
 
RangerBoy said:
The Rangers should keep Hayes, Kreider and Zuccarello. Long term contracts for all of them with NMC and full NTC. The Rangers aren’t winning anything with Zibanejad and the other 3.

Maybe there is a reason why the offers for Zuccarello and Hayes appear little. Maybe they are a little bit overrated by the Rangers fans. It would be the first time certain players were overrated.
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I don’t know why you have to go into full sarcasm mode every time someone offers an opposing point of view. Want to see YOUR plan in action? Take a look at Buffalo. How many top ten picks in the last 8 years? Likely not even making the playoffs AGAIN this year. You hate it, I get it. You need vets on a successful team whether you like it or not and you have to pay certain players and give them competitive contracts whether you like it or not.

I’m not saying don’t trade Hayes and Zooks. I’m saying don’t trade them if the return doesn’t warrant the trade. That’s good asset management
 
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I am amused by anyone not seeing through the plant there. If the Rangers were going to consider resigning these guys if the trade offers weren't there they would have been discussing their contract demands a lot earlier than this.

Good luck going to the players and have any leverage on upcoming UFAs after trying to trade them for months.

I think there is definitely a chance they have been discussing resigning them this entire time, but no way they are just starting contract talks now.
 
haohmaru said:
I don’t know why you have to go into full sarcasm mode every time someone offers an opposing point of view. Want to see YOUR plan in action? Take a look at Buffalo. How many top ten picks in the last 8 years? Likely not even making the playoffs AGAIN this year. You hate it, I get it. You need vets on a successful team whether you like it or not and you have to pay certain players and give them competitive contracts whether you like it or not.

I’m not saying don’t trade Hayes and Zooks. I’m saying don’t trade them if the return doesn’t warrant the trade. That’s good asset management
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Oh he is always like this. If people dont agree with him then they are the idiots who are holding the team back. Apparently there is only one highway to take in the next steps for this organization. If he had his way we would trade everyone over 25 years old or that was due a new contract even though being under 28 years old. Its a damn joke. I guess there has been no learning from Buffalo, Edmonton, Arizona, etc, teams that had no quality vets and drafted multiple times in the top 10, top 5 even, for years and still suck.

I do think they need to get what they can for Hayes and Zucc. There is no use in keeping them.
 
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Blue Blooded said:
But it is his natural position. Chytil mostly played winger before he was drafted and he has looked a lot better at wing than at center in the NHL. 2017-18 is the only season where he has primarily played center.
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Really? Maybe you should tell Gorton.

“The intent is to have all three at center to start,” Gorton said of Chytil, Andersson and Howden. “We want them to play their natural position and see how they look there. That’s how we want to evaluate them. As we move along, we’ll see, but we don’t have a plan to move any of the them to the wing. We think of them as centers.”
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https://nypost.com/2018/09/06/rangers-second-year-studs-in-middle-of-center-glut/

Facts are stubborn things.

The Rangers have said Chytil’s long term future is at center. He may be playing wing now but they like him at center. They made a big deal about taking two centers in the 2017 draft.

Much better? He has barely at center with decent line mates and received no opportunity with half way decent players who make or receive a pass.
 
RangerBoy said:
Really? Maybe you should tell Gorton.



https://nypost.com/2018/09/06/rangers-second-year-studs-in-middle-of-center-glut/

Facts are stubborn things.

The Rangers have said Chytil’s long term future is at center. He may be playing wing now but they like him at center. They made a big deal about taking two centers in the 2017 draft.

Much better? He has barely at center with decent line mates and received no opportunity with half way decent players who make or receive a pass.
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And then they draft a kid who never played center :laugh:
 
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One “decent” game against f***ing Buff and now we are resigning Hayes and Zucc and loading up for next year after buying out 1-2 defensemen?

This place cracks me up.

If Zucc is so gung-ho about being a NYR he can sign on the cheap again in July but I’ll take what I can get for him in the meantime.

Hayes too.
 
Why would you waste buyouts on guys who have two years left on their contracts? We are not even close to cap hell right now. We don't need to add years to their contracts by buying them out. Just suck it up and either sit them or play them...who cares.

There is no way we should buy out Smith, Staal or Shattenkirk. They are not preventing us from signing anyone. And we have no need to add years to their current deals. Trade them and retain, fine. Otherwise, just let it lapse and we are free and clear sooner rather than later.
 
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I really enjoy how you say their plan is to have them at center, by using a quote from 5 months ago, and in the quote it even says things like "and see how they look there." and "As we move along, we’ll see"

You do realize that plans change all the time, right?

:dunno:
 
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Irishguy42 said:
I really enjoy how you say their plan is to have them at center, by using a quote from 5 months ago, and in the quote it even says things like "and see how they look there." and "As we move along, we’ll see"

You do realize that plans change all the time, right?

:dunno:
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I remember when they used JT Miller at center for a few weeks.
 
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Irishguy42 said:
I really enjoy how you say their plan is to have them at center, by using a quote from 5 months ago, and in the quote it even says things like "and see how they look there." and "As we move along, we’ll see"

You do realize that plans change all the time, right?

:dunno:
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But that's his point. The Rangers never have a concrete plan. They claim to and then they just change it at every whim. Hence why they are just completely clueless. The Rangers made a commitment last year, and, for better or worse, they should see it through.

A plan is only good if you stick to said plan. Otherwise you are just throwing shit against a wall and hoping it will stick. Which is basically what this team will be doing if Hayes and Zucc are kept.
 
I don’t buy the extension talk for a minute.

They engaged Hayes in the summer and didn’t like the price. Has that changed? No. He’s being dealt.

They had Zucc on the market last year. Has anything changed? No. They know who he is, how much he wants to be here. Half a season of bubble team evaluation didn’t suddenly change their willingness to deal him or Hayes.
 
Faceless said:
I'm sorry, but this is just not a good take.

Your main points are:

A) Because his value is at it's peak -- How do you know that? And my argument wasn't that we SHOULDN'T move him, it's that it would be ridiculous to move him for a mid/late-round pick. I see some guys in here saying to dump him for a 7th. I mean, come on. This is insane. If all we are is getting a third for him, I have a hard time believing that's peak value. And if it is, we are better off keeping him. That's my point. If we can get a 1st, or 2nd+prospect then adios.

B) He is redundant with Tony D and Pionk. -- I just don't agree with this. Firstly, there is enough ice-time for the three of them. Pionk should not be playing first line minutes and if all we're getting is a mid/late round pick, I'd rather hold Shattenkirk and dump McQuaid for the same thing. We can also bench Smith and use him as the 7th or send him down. Staal, if it's possible, just dump him, if not, he can have his minutes reduced. It's easy to find minutes for the young guys on this team, while also understanding Shatty is probably our best D-Man ATM.

C) If a hole opens, it will be filled by someone who otherwise might not be noticed. -- I mean...this is just absurd. What happened last year? We ended up with garbage like O'Gara playing big minutes. Of all your points, this is by far the worst. Players don't just become NHL players because they get 'comfortable.' You know better than that. I also would prefer we avoid the yo-yoing that might happen should spots all of a sudden appear. There is no need to have Hajek, Lindgren, etc playing up here this year. They should get a full year of the AHL under their belt and come back next year with eyes on making the big squad.

Regardless, I don't see how anyone using any logic could determine it would best for the team to rid themselves of Shatty for a 3rd or....a 7th. I mean, come on. If you think that's peak value for a guy who is 2 years removed from being the hottest deadline acquisition, I just don't know what to tell you.

In fact, it seems quite clear to me that he is just now starting to rebuild his value, thus it is likely nowhere near what it could be should he maintain this play through until next deadline. Of course, that's a gamble, but it's one I sure would we willing to take if the only offer on the table right now is a 3rd rounder.
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I don’t agree with any of your points, think they are completely illogical.

a) Name one over the hill vet who — improved — his value when he got older? I don’t follow, why do you think he will become MORE valuable the older he gets?

b) You completely disregard my point. A perfect depth chart on defense has one (1) PMD/PPQB, one (1) 2-way guy and (1) guy who is a little bit more defensive.

We have THREE 1-way PMDs at right defense. You cannot be serious claiming that all those three can get the offensive minutes they need without being forced to take some defensive shifts they aren’t ready for. Pionk is a undersized UDFA PMD. Why have he been force fed those tough shifts. It’s a ridiculous statement that it’s not a big problem to have three identical player types at RD when all are 1 dimensional PMDs.

c) Bringing up OGara is also completely ridiculous. We wanted to sign Will Butcher — why wouldn’t he sign here? NJ had an opening for him we didn’t. We were supposedly after Lawrence Pilut, he went to Buffalo. We were supposedly after the Czech guy that went to Chicago, we had no openings.

We are — tanking. I don’t for a second doubt that we could find someone who could wear a jersey and even have some potential to help us down the road.
 
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