Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[GoAwayPanarin]

We arent going to be a worse team next year than this year if that's what you are thinking. Zuc is still a top 6 winger on this team and can be the next couple years, idealy hes on the 3rd pair but getting a pick that will give us an AHL player for a player we can use in the top 6 isnt smart business. Next year we should be turning a corner of some sort where Chytil, Pionk, DeAngelo, Buchnevich andHowden take a step and we introduce Andersson as a more ready player as well as Kravtsov. It doesnt help to have these kids thrown to the fire so having a guy like Zuc, who works hard in season and out of season would be worth more than some teams leftovers. If the offer is decent move him out but for scraps I'd keep him as insurance.

If they whiff or stay away from UFA they will 100000% be worse next year.

 

[Ola]

Basketball isn't like hockey.

You can add Kyrie and kd...and have Knox, zion. And whatever u get for dsj and win a championship.

In 1 year.

Haha I really get nothing of this post.

You can Ali Baba baba haba in y2 and then hola bola and win a championship.

Isn’t picks valuable? Same number of players, shouldn’t they be able to get the next big star if they post the worst record in the league concecutive seasons?

Edit: Is KD=Kevin Durant?

 

[LORDE]

We arent going to be a worse team next year than this year if that's what you are thinking. Zuc is still a top 6 winger on this team and can be the next couple years, idealy hes on the 3rd pair but getting a pick that will give us an AHL player for a player we can use in the top 6 isnt smart business. Next year we should be turning a corner of some sort where Chytil, Pionk, DeAngelo, Buchnevich andHowden take a step and we introduce Andersson as a more ready player as well as Kravtsov. It doesnt help to have these kids thrown to the fire so having a guy like Zuc, who works hard in season and out of season would be worth more than some teams leftovers. If the offer is decent move him out but for scraps I'd keep him as insurance.

How are we going to be better?

Where's the D Help coming from? After Hayes and Zucc are dealt who's coming in to play those positions? Will they eclipse their point totals and other aspects of their games? Hank will be another year older.

Anyone who thinks we'll be better next season either believes we are winning the lottery and or are signing Panarin. Still none of that fixes the shoddy (on a good day) defense.

 

[gravey9]

Most of the "realistic" trade proposals for hayes and zucc I've seen floating around are deals that don't really seem to make sense for the rebuild. The only reason to get rid of Hayes and Zucc is to get future high end talent. Not complimentary pieces. The draft picks should be the goal. Unless a true top prospect is truly avail.

That means 1st round picks or prospects with legit top 6 ceilings. If we're trading away Hayes/Zucc for "decent" prospects and 2nd round or worse draft picks, then they should consider resigning at least one of them. What the rebuild needs more than anything is a repeat of last year's first round or better. We need 7-8 kids with high-end skill/talent to build around. Can't do that nearly as easily with 2nd round picks and a bunch more Yegor Rykovs and Brett Howdens. (They're really nice complimentary pieces.)

The best barometer was the pre-cup team. At one point, they had drafted weight, amonte, leetch, kovalev, zubov, richter. They supplemented that elite group with lots of other solid talent - through trades/other draft picks/FA.

By comparison, the post lockout rangers drafted 3 elite players (or close to elite) -- lundqvist stepan, Kreider and also hagelin, tyutin, dubi, anisimov, callahan, boyle. Meaning, they ended up drafting half of the elite talent the cup team had.

Obviously, jury is out on current crop but consensus seems to be Kravtsov, Chytil, K Miller and Shesty have at least a shot at becoming elite. Point is, yes its possible other current prospects might sneak into that group but we need at least a few more. Its imperative. I really hope we don't just stock pile 2nd round picks and middle-six prospects with these trades. I think it'll delay the rebuild by at least a year if not longer.

 

[leetch99]

If this board is looking to get away from character guys with ceiling limitations, I don't think Greer would make too many happy.

The offense and overall game has never quite developed the way one would've hoped.

The only young character guy we need to target is Brandon Lemieux . If he becomes half the player his dad was...he would be a PERFECT fit for the Rangers . We need that type of guy so badly . Sounds like he does have a bunch of the family traits already , stuff that can't be taught...go get em Gorts !!! We can't have all Charming Ultra toilet tissue soft guys playing up front....need some characters with an edge and S**t disturbers in the mix like his dad who was probably the BEST one ever with the Cup rings to prove it .

 

[E-Train]

Amonte was a 4th, Zubov a 5th and Weight was a 2nd. You’re not getting blue chips or potential early 1st rounders for rentals. Get what you can and move on.

 

[Ola]

I don't know about that.

The market at his position is pretty shallow and the demand is (or will be) there.

A 1st and a prospect for Hayes is worthless if that 1st very well could be in the 27-31 range. Like getting two 3rd round picks for him. Like if he dealt to Winnipeg or whatever.

Big difference if you can get Colorado, Buffalo or a team like that’s 1st compared to a teams like Winnipeg/Tampa and co.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If they whiff or stay away from UFA they will 100000% be worse next year.

Certainly doesn't seem like they will be staying away from FA. At least that's what Friedman believes.

 

[Ola]

Ideally, I think many would agree that Zibanejad or Hayes would be your #2 centers. It's obvious to most that Zibanejad is the higher ceiling and more skilled player. A winning team shouldn't pay a guy who would be their 3C in an ideal world too much money in a cap world or else they won't have enough space to bring in the true elite talent needed to win. I'd be fine re-signing Zuccarello on a team friendly 3 year deal in the off-season but even if he 'only' returns a 2nd + good prospect that is a deal this organization must make due to where they are. It's time to continue stocking up on assets.

People look at teams like Winnipeg and Tampa and while they have had some decent success at both the draft and in development they also had many years or high picks and multiple additional picks in which they stocked their systems. The Rangers must do the same thing. 2nd round picks are good additional assets to have within an organization.

Here I really disagree.

You roll 3 lines the same. The center is so important in this speed game. From my POV you want 5-6 cheaper forwards, younger players with speed but that doesn’t have to be that talented. Then 4-5 guys who are really good with the puck, high caliber offense, preferably 3 really good centers and a 4th that also is very capable.

If you have that strong core, a defense that can skate and has size, it will just lift the other forwards so much, the Guentzel, Sheahan, Sheary types.

You can’t be a 1-2 line team. Why are Tampa so dominant? They have the depth, 3 strong lines. Very strong individual players that carry a line each.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Certainly doesn't seem like they will be staying away from FA. At least that's what Friedman believes.

I think they’re going to have to temporarily fill some spots through FA, but I think the only big swings they’d make are for Panarin or Karlsson

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Haha I really get nothing of this post.

You can Ali Baba baba haba in y2 and then hola bola and win a championship.

Isn’t picks valuable? Same number of players, shouldn’t they be able to get the next big star if they post the worst record in the league concecutive seasons?

Edit: Is KD=Kevin Durant?

The NBA's a "stars' league." Smaller rosters and you ride your stars to play almost the whole game in the playoffs. It's more high-event, the stars are involved more, I think that has a lot to do with why the TV ratings are so much better than hockey. Because you tell an average guy to watch Crosby and he has a quiet night, it's like you're telling him to watch Ryan Spooner. A star basketball player will at least get a ton of touches even if he's stinking up the building with them.

Team building has some of the same trends as the NHL (and you still can win with depth, with getting lucky with the 57th overall pick out of 58 etc) but it's much more extreme. The posts on here that are like, we'll trade almost all our good players, then we'll sign Panarin, we'll sign Kovalchuk, we'll sign Karlsson, our whole team will be those guys + Lundqvist + draft picks + journeymen and AHL guys who can maybe do one thing well. That's what basketball teams actually try to do, and it works.

 

[RangerBoy]

After explaining Jim Rutherford’s Cup-related mindset on the Pittsburgh side of the trade equation, McKenzie dove into Florida’s end of the deal.

“As for the Panthers, it’s pretty elementary,” noted McKenzie. “They got rid of contracts and they freed up cap space for next year - more than $4 million worth at this point.

“They picked up two assets in Brassard and Sheahan, who are unrestricted at the end of the year and don’t really do them any good because the Panthers aren’t going to make the playoffs anyway. So they’ll flip them for more prospects or future considerations in the form of draft picks, and stock the cupboard more fully - which also gives them more ammunition if they want to make some other hockey trades.

“We think the reason they want to clear the financial decks a little bit is because Florida would be interested in both Artemi Panarin and Sergei Bobrovsky in unrestricted free agency. And in fact, they may try to use Brassard and some of the other things they’ve got in their cupboard to see if possibly they could entice Columbus to part with Panarin before the deadline, and maybe Florida can get a leg up on trying to sell Artemi Panarin on signing long term with the Panthers.”

If Florida gives up their 1st in a deal for Panarin, the Rangers should try to get that pick from Columbus.

 

[Ola]

What is Minnesota up to? They seem like a good fit as a trading partner from my POV. Mikko Koivu and Eric Staal don’t got much left. Hayes what 8-9 years younger than them.

They probably have the highest potential kid outside the NHL right now in Kaprizov. That kid is on another planet than most kids we discuss. I don’t get called out for overhyping a kid that often and I don’t think I am in this case either. Don’t expect some unknown who might become good after dealin with some transition issues, with Kaprizov, start looking at guys like Barzal and Keller and then look up towards how good he might become. He is that good already. Kaprizov is one year away. Next summer.

Hayes for Kaprizov

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think they’re going to have to temporarily fill some spots through FA, but I think the only big swings they’d make are for Panarin or Karlsson

Maybe, but it definitely seems like they will be taking swings. I don't think they will be sitting on the sidelines.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

A 1st and a prospect for Hayes is worthless if that 1st very well could be in the 27-31 range.

That late 1st and prospect are chips at the table for Gorton. The more he has the merrier.

Say we land the 6th overall pick. Hayes nets us the 28th overall. TB doesn’t win the cup and we get the last pick in the 2nd round. Assume Zucc gets a 2nd as well.

Gorton now has his first, a late 1st, and 3 seconds.

Gorton picks Byram at 6. He can now bundle the pick we got for Hayes + a 2nd and Buch for... I dunno... The 12th pick? There’s obviously a number of scenarios that can happen...

I wouldn’t worry too much about the value we’ll get for Hayes though... It’ll be good. Better than the 28th overall and mediocre prospect.

 

[E-Train]

That late 1st and prospect are chips at the table for Gorton. The more he has the merrier.

Say we land the 6th overall pick. Hayes nets us the 28th overall. TB doesn’t win the cup and we get the last pick in the 2nd round. Assume Zucc gets a 2nd as well.

Gorton now has his first, a late 1st, and 3 seconds.

Gorton picks Byram at 6. He can now bundle the pick we got for Hayes + a 2nd and Buch for... I dunno... The 12th pick? There’s obviously a number of scenarios that can happen...

I wouldn’t worry too much about the value we’ll get for Hayes though... It’ll be good. Better than the 28th overall and mediocre prospect.

This is a scenario that could very well play out. I want one of the top 5 forwards but if we’re picking 6th, I’m taking Byram and shooting for another forward with a pick like FLA’s.

 

[Machinehead]

Certainly doesn't seem like they will be staying away from FA. At least that's what Friedman believes.

They won't stay away from FA.

They'll bring in a vet defenseman and some gritty 4th liner.

 

[Webster]

Anyone else getting the inkling that the Rangers will keep Hayes and/or Zucc? That is, unless they get absolutely bowled over

I realize we're rebuliding, but there is zero guarantee a player we pick in the 20+ range is going to be anywhere near as good as Hayes who has really come into his own. I know it's contract year, but I legit think he turned a corner and this is the player he will be from here on. Meanwhile, trading Zucc who has been the heart and soul of the team will definitely hurt morale going forward.

Keeping them should allow us to compete for a playoff spot as early as next season rather than have to wait, at minimum, 2-4 years. Especially if they can get get someone like Panarin. A top six of Panarin, Hayes, Zib, Kreider, Zucc, and Chytil is pretty damn solid.

Again, picks are nice, but the chance of drafting a game-breaking forward in the late first round is extremely slim

Yes keeping Zucc and/or Hayes is certainly a realistic scenario. I don't think they'll trade any of them unless there's a 1st involved.

And Zucc is basically the leader of this team. He drives the top line and shows the kids how hockey should be played. No doubt they'll struggle with both production and morale if he leaves.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Certainly doesn't seem like they will be staying away from FA. At least that's what Friedman believes.

I expect them to have their nose in more things this summer for sure.

Whether or not that amounts to anything is up in the air. I'm certain that they'll be in on Panarin but if they whiff there, I'm not so sure they go HAM over anyone else. Maybe Karlsson.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Certainly doesn't seem like they will be staying away from FA. At least that's what Friedman believes.

Friedman believed that last year, too.

 

[Ori]

Pittsburgh doesn't want to trade their 1st round pick.





The Rangers need to add more 1st round picks in this draft. Two more first round picks.

Aaron Portzline had a Q & A at The Athletic.

He mentioned Kevin Hayes as a possibility for the Columbus. Duchene. Stone. Simmonds. Schenn. Those were the other players mentioned.

It make sense concerning Pittsburgh 1st.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

This is a scenario that could very well play out. I want one of the top 5 forwards but if we’re picking 6th, I’m taking Byram and shooting for another forward with a pick like FLA’s.

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the top 6-7 players this draft. Go with Turcotte if we miss out on Hughes/Kakko/Dach/Pod/Cozens and hopefully we have enough chips to get us in position for someone like Broberg.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Friedman believed that last year, too.

Did he?

I know there were some rumblings that they may take a run at EK but that was a trade. I remember the expectation was that they were going to stay away from the big ticket players entirely.

Maybe they change their mind and do that again this year, but their interest in Panarin has been well documented by several sources. I'd be shocked if they didn't at least try to get him.

Beyond Panarin, I'm not so sure I see them spending a ton. EK perhaps, but I'd think (well hope) that they stay away from overpaying for players in the secondary market.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Grain of salt from Pierre

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Grain of salt from Pierre

Kreider.

Makes so much sense for them