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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

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Oscar Lindberg said:
In this scenario, yeah maybe as a pure rental, or a player with a short term left on his deal

The biggest issue for me with Kreider is always going to be the contract with his age

People were having a heart attack with signing Panarin because he's 27, this is the same situation with less dollars and way less talent.
Click to expand...
Not all people were having a heart attack.

Like @jas continues to say, he is a player many teams try to find because a lot of teams dont have a player of his type. Size and Speed. Thats the NHL right now. Goes to the net. Those are important attributes for the playoffs. Like others have said I think they are there next year with a slim chance they make it this year. If the salary and term were fair I would be all for bringing him back. But if not they have to move him. They cannot self rent. So Gorton needs to find these answers out now. Like right now. Were getting mixed reports on his availability. Figure this out so we can shift gears and gameplan what the roster will look like post deadline which could include adding some bodies for depth since Gorton did not do that in the offseason when there were cheap veterans available.
 
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Oscar Lindberg said:
They don't necessarily need a top 3 pick. Having one is nice but there's plenty of players in this draft that can make an impact in the same way a top 3 pick would. Some of the best players in the league right now are guys who have been drafted outside the top 3 the last few drafts.

And that group you listed doesn't have the ability to win a cup. Get to the playoffs? For sure. Win it all? I'm not seeing it
Click to expand...

But a kid they add with the 10th pick this year is going to tip the scales? Cool.
 
Machinehead said:
Again, I'm with you on that point.

But am I balking at a player with high offensive upside because a) he lacks other elements or b) I feel like we're in a position to turn that down? No.

I don't see this as a "medium range" team and I still want bullets in the chamber. We can worry about nuance when more chips are in place.
Click to expand...

I think a lot depends on how Kakko and Kravtsov develop, and the timeline in which they develop. If you have a pair of guys who are producing at a decent clip in a year or two, that makes a significant difference.

There’s just so many moving parts right now, it’s hard to make an accurate estimation.
 
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jas said:
Actually, I think this team is a year away from taking off. If Kravtsov continues his current play in Hartford, I expect to see him before the season is up. I think the top six is actually sorting out nicely. They need more depth at the NHL level, and development of both Kakko and Kravtsov will push players like Fast into more appropriate bottom six roles. But, Chytil has answered a lot of questions for me. I think they’ll remain on the playoff bubble, ultimately falling short. But, Gorton will wisely target the appropriate players to fill important roles, (most notably 1LD.). And, he’s built up a lot of trade capital.
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Agreed, but does that mean buchnevich is a keeper? That’s my big question mark.
 
RGY said:
Halfway through year 1 of the contract, has been arguably our best defenseman in all aspects of the game stabilizing the right side, but hey “newsflash” Trouba wasn’t worth signing...

Cant make this stuff up....
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SO much of this is the result of a subset of the board luuuuurving ADA, seeing the reality of the dollars and TOI allocated to the right side, and preemptively resenting Trouba for all the conversation that their boy may eventually (even if 2-3 years down the line) be priced out. (Which I personally do think is likely, though who knows what can happen over that length of time in the NHL.)
 
Oscar Lindberg said:
In this scenario, yeah maybe as a pure rental, or a player with a short term left on his deal

The biggest issue for me with Kreider is always going to be the contract with his age

People were having a heart attack with signing Panarin because he's 27, this is the same situation with less dollars and way less talent.
Click to expand...

I would reverse that - less talent and way less money.
 
RGY said:
Not all people were having a heart attack.

Like @jas continues to say, he is a player many teams try to find because a lot of teams dont have a player of his type. Size and Speed. Thats the NHL right now. Goes to the net. Those are important attributes for the playoffs. Like others have said I think they are there next year with a slim chance they make it this year. If the salary and term were fair I would be all for bringing him back. But if not they have to move him. They cannot self rent. So Gorton needs to find these answers out now. Like right now. Were getting mixed reports on his availability. Figure this out so we can shift gears and gameplan what the roster will look like post deadline which could include adding some bodies for depth since Gorton did not do that in the offseason when there were cheap veterans available.
Click to expand...
If Kreider wants to take a fair shorter term deal with low dollars, I'm all for bringing him back. I don't see that as the situation transpiring. Maybe I'm wrong and if that ends up being the case I'll gladly admit I was wrong. Gorton has to know at this point what Kreider wants. This all feels similar to what happened with Hayes last year. They play coy about him being available, meanwhile they haven't had serious contract talks in months.

At the end of the day I come back to this. Posters like @Edge have been telling us the Rangers plan is to compete and be a powerhouse during the 2020's. That lines up with what Gorton and crew have been saying. We're not even in 2020 yet and there's already clamoring to buy buy buy like this team is an actual playoff contender.

When in reality this team is not close at this point in time

I just have a hard time committing a lot of money to guys like Kreider when it's clear we're still in the early stages of this process.

Pawnee Rangers said:
But a kid they add with the 10th pick this year is going to tip the scales? Cool.
Click to expand...
Again, this is not a cyclical process. Could the guy taken at #10 this summer be a cornerstone piece, yes. But there are so many other moving parts here you're just glossing over
 
Oscar Lindberg said:
In this scenario, yeah maybe as a pure rental, or a player with a short term left on his deal

The biggest issue for me with Kreider is always going to be the contract with his age

People were having a heart attack with signing Panarin because he's 27, this is the same situation with less dollars and way less talent.
Click to expand...
And 2 years older.

Said it before, and I'll say it again: sign for 4 years, Chris, and welcome aboard. Looking forward to hopefully giving you another, nice 2-year contract in the summer of '24, after you prove yourself the exception to the "power forwards fall off a cliff at the age of 30/31" rule.

Otherwise, I hope you help your new team with the Cup this year.
 
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NYR Viper said:
There's no arguing that, like most higher end UFA's, they are players who can help any team win. In saying that, I'm not comfortable giving Kreider a 6-7 year deal for $6.5-7m per season at 29 years old. That is the type of contract a team like Washington or Pittsburgh or St Louis could hand out as they are in their window. 3 years from now they won't care about Kreider's contract because their window will most likely be closing and they will have other problem contracts to worry about bsedies his anyways but they took their shot. For a team looking to truly contend in a couple of years, when Kreider will be 31, that's just a waste as you're missing out on what will most likely be his (2) most productive seasons of his next contract
Click to expand...

Are you comfortable with a five year deal?
 
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Edge said:
I think a lot depends on how Kakko and Kravtsov develop, and the timeline in which they develop. If you have a pair of guys who are producing at a decent clip in a year or two, that makes a significant difference.

There’s just so many moving parts right now, it’s hard to make an accurate estimation.
Click to expand...

I think Panarin’s seamless acclimation coupled with Zibanejad’s emergence and Chytil’s development allows more patience with both Kakko and Kravtsov.
 
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jas said:
I think Panarin’s seamless acclimation coupled with Zibanejad’s emergence and Chytil’s development allows more patience with both Kakko and Kravtsov.
Click to expand...

I think patience is wonderful, I’ve always said that. Panarin and Zibanejad are essentially doing what they were hoped to do. So them doing that hasn’t really erased any ammo concerns for me.
 
Ok here we go. Merging my ideas from earlier today. One wild card is the Rangers draft position which is an unknown.

Trade Deadline:
  • Kreider for Kostin and #1.
  • Fast for 3rd and 5th. Not sure if he could get a 2nd, or may be a conditional 3rd that becomes a #2 depending on playoff performance of the acquiring team.
Draft/Offseason:

  • Skjei, Kravstov and Georgiev for Nylander and Kapanen.
  • Explore Andersson market.
  • Resign ADA 5 years $6MM.
  • Resign Strome 4 years $4.5MM.
  • Buy out Staal ($2.2MM savings).
  • Buy out or trade Smith (1.7MM savings if bought out).

Kapanen - Zbad - Nylander
Panarin - Strome - Buch
Kostin - Chytil - Kakko
Lemieux - Howden - XXXX
XXXX

XXXX - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Hajek - ADA
XXXX

Lundqvist
Shesh

Biggest hole would be 1LD. Miller isn't ready to make the jump. Not sure if it makes sense this season towards the end to try ADA and Fox on the left side, experiment when there isn't anything on the line? Would open a spot for Keane.

Kostin could be a Kreider replacement in a sense. Good skater, physical. Some sites have him listed as 6'4 some 6'3.
 
Many of you seem to have a lot more faith in the Trouba contract than I do.

I'm not so sure I see him as a top pair building block. Or at least it's going to take a much better LD than the Rangers currently have for him to be that and then I question what that contract is going to look like.

While I am somewhat enthused with Chytil, Kakko, my timetable for when they are in their primes seems to differ, I'm thinking the season after next.

DeAngelo I've always liked, Fox has joined him, I'd rather see the Rangers find a cheaper Trouba to go along with those two rather than have to pick between DeAngelo and Fox.

On the other side of the ledger, I'm not so sure I see Howden, Hajek making the impact I once thought they might. Middle 6F and top 4D seems questionable.

Then of course the Lias thing, and the hope that Kravtsov now has his sights set more appropriately.

Goalies, too, they seem to have put themselves in a position where they'd be better off going with the two younger, yet it sure seems like they are going to have to take a different route.

Overall I see more of a mixed bag than I am that confident this variation of the team is going to be all that different than the last several. Dubinsky, Ansimov, Stepan, Staal, Girardi, McD, Lundqvist along with take you pick of Gaborik, Richards, Nash, I question if this is all that much different, where it seems like it should be given the Rangers draft position and quantity of picks over the last several years.
 
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Off Sides said:
Many of you seem to have a lot more faith in the Trouba contract than I do.

I'm not so sure I see him as a top pair building block. Or at least it's going to take a much better LD than the Rangers currently have for him to be that and then I question what that contract is going to look like.

While I am somewhat enthused with Chytil, Kakko, my timetable for when they are in their primes seems to differ, I'm thinking the season after next.

DeAngelo I've always liked, Fox has joined him, I'd rather see the Rangers find a cheaper Trouba to go along with those two rather than have to pick between DeAngelo and Fox.

On the other side of the ledger, I'm not so sure I see Howden, Hajek making the impact I once thought they might. Middle 6F and top 4D seems questionable.

Then of course the Lias thing, and the hope that Kravtsov now has his sights set more appropriately.

Goalies, too, they seem to have put themselves in a position where they'd be better off going with the two younger, yet it sure seems like they are going to have to take a different route.

Overall I see more of a mixed bag than I am that confident this variation of the team is going to be all that different than the last several. Dubinsky, Ansimov, Stepan, Staal, Girardi, McD, Lundqvist along with take you pick of Gaborik, Richards, Nash, I question if this is all that much different, where it seems like it should be given the Rangers draft position and quantity of picks over the last several years.
Click to expand...

I'm not married to Troubs whatsoever. In a rebuild things change so fast and dramatically.

Did not think I wouldn't see Troubda or Lias in the future of this team. Right now I really don't.

And there will be takers for both of them. Fox and ADA look like far better future core options.
 
SA16 said:
I would rather trade Kreider for a 7th round pick than re-sign him to any reasonable deal that he would accept. If Kreider was on another team and was a UFA this year everyone would just argue that he's the next Okposo/Ladd/Lucic/Backes contract.
Click to expand...

but he’s not on another team he’s on this one and he’s their 3rd best/most important forward. A position this team is thinnest at. If you trade him you need to get a player back that immediately slots into the top 9. Not a pick, not some other teams problem or a guy needing a change of scenery. If they don’t, they’re worse next season. Much worse.
 
SA16 said:
I would rather trade Kreider for a 7th round pick than re-sign him to any reasonable deal that he would accept. If Kreider was on another team and was a UFA this year everyone would just argue that he's the next Okposo/Ladd/Lucic/Backes contract.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is what you are afraid of. At the same time, you never know. There are guys like Wheeler too, and Kreider isn’t showing any signs of slowing down. I would still give him better than even odds at still having his best year infront of him...

I was a lot more eager to deal Stepan than Kreider.
 
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I can't be the only one that reads RangerBoy blog posts like Uncle Larry's old Slap Shots columns when he gave a shit.

Highlight of the day.
 
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The Rangers need more assets. They need to trade Kreider. His speed and size will surely be missed.
 
UAGoalieGuy said:
Ok here we go. Merging my ideas from earlier today. One wild card is the Rangers draft position which is an unknown.

Trade Deadline:
  • Kreider for Kostin and #1.
  • Fast for 3rd and 5th. Not sure if he could get a 2nd, or may be a conditional 3rd that becomes a #2 depending on playoff performance of the acquiring team.
Draft/Offseason:

  • Skjei, Kravstov and Georgiev for Nylander and Kapanen.
  • Explore Andersson market.
  • Resign ADA 5 years $6MM.
  • Resign Strome 4 years $4.5MM.
  • Buy out Staal ($2.2MM savings).
  • Buy out or trade Smith (1.7MM savings if bought out).

Kapanen - Zbad - Nylander
Panarin - Strome - Buch
Kostin - Chytil - Kakko
Lemieux - Howden - XXXX
XXXX

XXXX - Trouba
Lindgren - Fox
Hajek - ADA
XXXX

Lundqvist
Shesh

Biggest hole would be 1LD. Miller isn't ready to make the jump. Not sure if it makes sense this season towards the end to try ADA and Fox on the left side, experiment when there isn't anything on the line? Would open a spot for Keane.

Kostin could be a Kreider replacement in a sense. Good skater, physical. Some sites have him listed as 6'4 some 6'3.
Click to expand...

Krug is a UFA this summer. I think he’d slot really nicely next to Trouba. Not sure we could swing it.
 
Brendan Lemieux's game has made me increasingly comfortable with the Kreider departure.

The net front presence and deflections in his game are important, and I think Brendan covers that.
 
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