Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[offdacrossbar]

gonna say this again.

GONZO

kreider
skjei
andersson
fast
georgie

scoop the loot for this group. keep the remaining core together. strengthen the LD and add some SIZE to the forward group. we need some north south grizzle added to this finesse forward group and a bottom six that understands backchecking and neutral zone defense and helping the D out in the D zone.

i think everyone here is sleeping on shesyorkin. this kid is a legit superstar #1 in the waiting.


14 wins
4 losses
3 OT
3 SO

GAA 1.98
SV% .931

HELLO america ! swan song for hanky with igor as his understudy. sounds perfect to me.

few years down the road. shesty and huska as the 2.

 

[Edge]

The constant underrating of what JT Miller has done never ceases to amaze me. He is a consistent 50+ point player with a 20 game and 40 game stretch of being a PPG player.

Buchnevich broke the 50+ point pace hurdle last yest but didn’t hit it. He is pacing for 45 this year. He has gotten extended looks on a legit first line with Zibanejad and Kreider. It’s not like he is doing this on a 3rd line.

I think JT Miller is what is he is, a support player whose numbers see a serious climb when paired with skilled players. And when that doesn't happen, his efforts tend to see him spending time on a bottom six line.

I don't think he's necessarily a player you win with, and he's proven that over and over again in the playoffs, despite a complete change of scenery. I think he's a complimentary piece that does well when he's playing with VERY high skill level players. We already have that right now.

I don't dislike him. But I don't lament his loss either.

 

[nyr2k2]

gonna say this again.

GONZO

kreider
skjei
andersson
fast
georgie

scoop the loot for this group. keep the remaining core together. strengthen the LD and add some SIZE to the forward group. we need some east west grizzle added to this finesse forward group and a bottom six that understands backchecking and neutral zone defense and helping the D out in the D zone.

i think everyone here is sleeping on shesyorkin. this kid is a legit superstar #1 in the waiting.


14 wins
4 losses
3 OT
3 SO

GAA 1.98
SV% .931

HELLO america ! swan song for hanky with igor as his understudy. sounds perfect to me.

few years down the road. shesty and huska as the 2.

I still keep Fast if the price is right. He's a really dependable 10G, 25P player, which as much as we think they do, don't grow on trees. One of our few actual defensively responsible forwards. If the price is right.

I assume you mean North-South grizzle, but yeah, sure, I'm fine adding that.

No one is sleeping on Shesterkin; everyone knows he's there. The problem has always been how do you fit him in if Georgiev is going to play really well. The answer may be that Georgiev isn't going to play really well.

 

[Dijock94]

I still keep Fast if the price is right. He's a really dependable 10G, 25P player, which as much as we think they do, don't grow on trees. One of our few actual defensively responsible forwards. If the price is right.

I assume you mean North-South grizzle, but yeah, sure, I'm fine adding that.

No one is sleeping on Shesterkin; everyone knows he's there. The problem has always been how do you fit him in if Georgiev is going to play really well. The answer may be that Georgiev isn't going to play really well.

Fast is a position where cap space has to be saved. We can’t afford to pay a bottom six winger 3 million a year. Georgie has to be traded to get Shesty up to the NHL.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I think JT Miller is what is he is, a support player whose numbers see a serious climb when paired with skilled players. And when that doesn't happen, his efforts tend to see him spending time on a bottom six line.

I don't think he's necessarily a player you win with, and he's proven that over and over again in the playoffs, despite a complete change of scenery. I think he's a complimentary piece that does well when he's playing with VERY high skill level players. We already have that right now.

I don't dislike him. But I don't lament his loss either.

I guess I just don’t see how you can underrate the raw production, let alone in comparison to Buchnevich. At this point Miller is closer to Stepan’s production than Buch Who I’m not sure I see as a “player you win with” and who is the definition of a support player.

Edit - at this point Miller’s production is closer to Stepan than Buchnevich and I think very few on this board actually understand that.

 

[Edge]

I guess I just don’t see how you can underrate the raw production, let alone in comparison to Buchnevich. Who I’m not sure I see as a “player you win with” and who is the definition of a support player.

I'm not really sure what you're referring to. I have them in the same boat, with the similar story lines here, and similar story lines if the roles were reversed and Buch was in Vancouver.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I'm not really sure what you're referring to. I have them in the same boat, with the similar story lines here, and similar story lines if the roles were reversed and Buch was in Vancouver.

If Buch isn’t even doing what Miller did here, what makes you think he’s a PPG player in TB or Vancouver?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Not everyone...

Of course not.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I still keep Fast if the price is right. He's a really dependable 10G, 25P player, which as much as we think they do, don't grow on trees. One of our few actual defensively responsible forwards. If the price is right.

I assume you mean North-South grizzle, but yeah, sure, I'm fine adding that.

No one is sleeping on Shesterkin; everyone knows he's there. The problem has always been how do you fit him in if Georgiev is going to play really well. The answer may be that Georgiev isn't going to play really well.

yes fixed.

thats what i meant lol

fast is a fine player. not sure that money isnt better spent elsewhere. would seem a good solid pickup for a playoff bound team looking for a bottom six player just as you described. its a cap thing as much as opening up a spot for a more effective value bottom 6 player who can do much the same for less $$.

as for shestyorkin, its his time. a year to get used to the angles and smaller NA rinks and hes shown with his numbers hes good to go. backing up hank early, splitting 60/40 mid season and eventually taking over the #1 spot seems about right.

georgie is a good piece to a larger deal. he may well be #1 material but not here.

 

[Trxjw]

"North south grizzle" sounds like a great name for a whiskey with a handle on it.

 

[NYR Viper]

 

[Avery16]

I thought Rykov was exempt

You are right. So just Hajek and Lindgren. I will edit.

 

[Avery16]

Whew!

 

[nyr2k2]

Fast is a position where cap space has to be saved. We can’t afford to pay a bottom six winger 3 million a year. Georgie has to be traded to get Shesty up to the NHL.

You can afford to pay Fast that money if you're getting Kreider and Skjei off the books, as ODC suggested. Particularly if you then find a way to move out some or all of Smith's money, and whatever we do with Staal. You can absolutely afford $3M for Fast, who is very effective at what he does and provides some stability for what is becoming (somehow) an even younger team. 3x3 I do in a heartbeat. 4x3 I do as well with the idea you can probably trade him in year 3 of that deal when his salary is a pittance relative to the cap and he's still 30/31.

And yeah, that's what I meant about Georgiev/Shesterkin--before it was tough to justify getting rid of Georgiev for cheap to make room for an untested but phenomenal prospect, but if Goergiev struggles then that decision is made easier.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

No one is saying he should be getting paid like he is and has been a perennial 60+ point player.

Stating that he has been a middling center is also obfuscating some facts. He bounced around, he struggled but he is also just 26 years old. He was a former top-5 pick. Is there no credence that he started to regain his confidence when discovering comfort in a franchise and having a coaching staff that trusts him?

The "anyone" was not directed at you but rather my frustration at seeing essentially those types of opinions.

Like anything, it needs to be measured. He's been great the first half of the season. Hope the Rangers and him can figure something out. But given the current cap situation, the second he even indicates me might be pricing himself out, the Rangers will be almost forced to cut bait.

I think we're essentially saying the same thing, but the voices of ardent lovers and haters of Strome are being amplified. It's wise to not get emotionally attached to specific players, especially now.

 

[duhmetreE]

Like anything, it needs to be measured. He's been great the first half of the season. Hope the Rangers and him can figure something out. But given the current cap situation, the second he even indicates me might be pricing himself out, the Rangers will be almost forced to cut bait.

I think we're essentially saying the same thing, but the voices of ardent lovers and haters of Strome are being amplified. It's wise to not get emotionally attached to specific players, especially now.

At worst, we have him for 1 more year.

 

[Off Sides]

And that makes perfect sense, in my opinion. Often we see the "I'd rather have a pick than prospect X" when discussing these things. While it's a nice fantasy to assume it will be another Jones or Shestyorkin, it's far more likely to be another Gropp or Nieves. So sometimes the real premium is in getting more of a known quantity, who can also contribute sooner rather than later.

It's also funny to see people pan a project like Bennett, while at the same time licking their chops over what Lemieux can become. Two guys who were taken 25 picks apart in 2014, and while one is the mayor of bust-ville, the other is poised to become a key contributor for the Rangers. Of course not every player is a late-bloomer, or will do well with a change of scenery, but there's huge potential for value in these players.

We've talked about it before, but I think it's fair to expect the Rangers to continue to try and do some harvesting from the 14/15/16 drafts looking for value.

While I agree with much of that, the pick versus the already drafted prospects part, I think much of that depends on how they perceive this next draft, and how they perceive whoever maybe available from those 14-16 drafts and who may be avaible as the add on instead of say a 2nd rounder.

For example say they do take back a 2nd, likely a late one instead of say Bennett, can they somehow find another Fox type using that late 2nd if they also combine it with their own 2nd?

For sure if there is another Fox like player (say a forward instead) who may become available, I'd want the picks to make that sort of deal should it come about as those two 2nds, or one 2nd and Bennett is not worth as much as a Fox like player.

I guess I think at the deadline the already drafted players being made available from those who are renting are almost always going to be like secondary or B level types, where as during the summer leading up to the draft teams start to think about, well things like do I have to trade a Fox? Something they were not going to trade at a deadline because they still had time to try to sign him, and were more focused on the playoffs at hand.

Seems like GMs wait until they are absolutely desperate to trade anything of real value, and I'm not sure those teams feel the desperation to do so at the trade deadlines where as during the summer that desperation starts to manifest itself.

 

[offdacrossbar]

You can afford to pay Fast that money if you're getting Kreider and Skjei off the books, as ODC suggested. Particularly if you then find a way to move out some or all of Smith's money, and whatever we do with Staal. You can absolutely afford $3M for Fast, who is very effective at what he does and provides some stability for what is becoming (somehow) and even younger team.

And yeah, that's what I meant about Georgiev/Shesterkin--before it was tough to justify getting rid of Georgiev for cheap to make room for an untested but phenomenal prospect, but if Goergiev struggles then that decision is made easier.

i want fast moved for cap space and to allocate the $$ elsewhere. hes a very good bottom 6'er who quinn loves to play on line 1.

no question hes a solid performer but that spot and that $$ can go to a player who younger and less expensive for the same or better result. plus, time to add some size to that bottom 6.

sadly, jesper must go.

smith is a boat anchor unless hes bought out. same for staal.

i think 1 calendar year from now, shestyorkin will be clearly better than hank and also georgie for that matter.

this kid is the real deal.

 

[Waivers]

Georgiev is the odd man out. Shesterkin is the next heir and Hank splitting games and mentoring him sounds fantastic. Would not be surprised if Hank resigned with the Rangers for league minimum after his contract is over by next season. Hank is still a solid goaltender despite his age.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

And that makes perfect sense, in my opinion. Often we see the "I'd rather have a pick than prospect X" when discussing these things. While it's a nice fantasy to assume it will be another Jones or Shestyorkin, it's far more likely to be another Gropp or Nieves. So sometimes the real premium is in getting more of a known quantity, who can also contribute sooner rather than later.

It's also funny to see people pan a project like Bennett, while at the same time licking their chops over what Lemieux can become. Two guys who were taken 25 picks apart in 2014, and while one is the mayor of bust-ville, the other is poised to become a key contributor for the Rangers. Of course not every player is a late-bloomer, or will do well with a change of scenery, but there's huge potential for value in these players.

We've talked about it before, but I think it's fair to expect the Rangers to continue to try and do some harvesting from the 14/15/16 drafts looking for value.

These are the types of transactions where Gorton has been at his best. Brassard for Zibanejad. Spooner for Strome.

The catch-22, particularly when it comes an asset like Kreider, is finding a team that's looking to boost their playoff pitch while asking them to give up something of current NHL value in the deal.

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah Gerogiev is the odd man out. Shesterkin is the real heir and Hank splitting games and mentoring him sounds fantastic. Would not be surprised if Hank resigned with the Rangers for league minimum after his contract is over by next season. Hank is still a solid goaltender despite his age.

Georgiev still hasn't broken his trend of one out of every 4 games being an absolute stinker- and it's concerning. Still on team deal Georgiev.

 

[BBKers]

Kreider going to Boston is a very likely destination. Have been saying this for some time.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Georgiev is the odd man out. Shesterkin is the next heir and Hank splitting games and mentoring him sounds fantastic. Would not be surprised if Hank resigned with the Rangers for league minimum after his contract is over by next season. Hank is still a solid goaltender despite his age.

I don't think resigning Henrik is a good move.

 

[Trxjw]

These are the types of transactions where Gorton has been at his best. Brassard for Zibanejad. Spooner for Strome.

The catch-22, particularly when it comes an asset like Kreider, is finding a team that's looking to boost their playoff pitch while asking them to give up something of current NHL value in the deal.

I think some of the guys we've kicked around could be had in a deal, but you're right that it's not necessarily a given. Though there's certainly the prospect of the Rangers turning around at the draft and moving the pick they acquired and a prospect of their own in order to land a young NHL player.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think some of the guys we've kicked around could be had in a deal, but you're right that it's not necessarily a given. Though there's certainly the prospect of the Rangers turning around at the draft and moving the pick they acquired and a prospect of their own in order to land a young NHL player.

Agreed. Either way, I think we're at the point in the rebuild where the centerpieces of such deals can't be a pick or a prospect that are years away from (potentially) being something. The question is do you really want to make a potential problem child or player with other issues the centerpiece of a Kreider deal.