Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[Alluckks]

There are quite a few examples of players who have the output of Miller playing very well in to their mid to late 30’s. He’s not 38 years old.

Since when was 33 (and in fairness he’s not 33 yet…) was a fossil?

Drury turned Mancini, who appeared to not have a good idea of how to play defense at the NHL or AHL level as of yet, Chytil who was a skating time bomb for LTIR and a middling 1st in a shit draft for a player who, should the team 3-4 years from now want to move on from, would likely return more than what he costed this season.

Kreider just had a horrendous season and even he is likely to return comparable to this cost and he’s older and has never had the offensive production Miller has had over his last 3 seasons.

I get it, you don’t like the direction you perceive this to have the team going in but Drury trading for Miller, based on the actual cost, was a no-brained. ESPECIALLY if he has interest in trading Panarin and Kreider this offseason.

Pretty amazing we bitch about what having Zuccarello this whole time could have meant to the team on one hand, while on the hand lambasting a point per game player that turned 32 one month ago

 

[80s Kid]

I was told on this very board that winning hockey players should eat, sleep and play hockey. No other passions or interests in life are allowed.

I am waiting for the same people to critisize JT. Or maybe he will get a pass because he votes a certain way and goes mud driving in his offroad 4x4.

...Might be a bit of a stretch...Just sayin'...

 

[Fitzy]

There are quite a few examples of players who have the output of Miller playing very well in to their mid to late 30’s. He’s not 38 years old.

Since when was 33 (and in fairness he’s not 33 yet…) was a fossil?

Drury turned Mancini, who appeared to not have a good idea of how to play defense at the NHL or AHL level as of yet, Chytil who was a skating time bomb for LTIR and a middling 1st in a shit draft for a player who, should the team 3-4 years from now want to move on from, would likely return more than what he costed this season.

Kreider just had a horrendous season and even he is likely to return comparable to this cost and he’s older and has never had the offensive production Miller has had over his last 3 seasons.

I get it, you don’t like the direction you perceive this to have the team going in but Drury trading for Miller, based on the actual cost, was a no-brained. ESPECIALLY if he has interest in trading Panarin and Kreider this offseason.

A lot of truth to what you’ve said here. But there are also perfectly good players who fall off a cliff at 34. Brad Richards, Vinny Lecavalier, the list of burn outs by 35 is just as long as the list of stars that stay close to their best self until 37-38, if not longer.

So with a guy like Miller, it’s just a gamble.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Miller skipped exit day citing lose of a friend and the next day he’s in a golf tournament huh

Maybe they buried him on the 15th hole?

 

[mrhockey193195]

I just thought it was really odd when he said he was “ready to be better.” What does that mean? Did he think “being better” was going to be bestowed on him? Like I said, kid seems “off”.

I think it's still way too much overanalyzing. He's saying he wants to be better and is planning on committing himself even more to do that. Nothing more.

We all need to stop overanalyzing each and every word, and instead just glean the high level points that they are getting across.

Even with Mika - I think there's way too much harping on what he meant when he said "we didn't know everything". Maybe my bias is showing, but that was pretty simple to me, he's saying they didn't know if the team was going to be blown up and that hung over their heads most of the season and made it tough to focus. Not that crazy or outlandish a statement, IMO.

 

[MrAlmost]

Also, i think people are being a little hard on Miller's response to the media. He said he let the noise get to him, but he very clearly said "I was a big part of the problem this year and I have to be better next year." Compare that to Zibanejad and Kreider's responses

Yeah people read what they wanted to in his response. And what they wanted was plain wrong.

 

[Vito Andolini]

He's a player, he isn't a part of management. And mika's comments are completely in line with what I shared prior to Thanksgiving that this was coming bc the players had become so entitled that they thought they were in charge

What you are describing is obviously an indictment of Mika and the other players, but even more, it's an indictment of management. Because if you were able to see this huge player problem unfolding 5 months ago, then how is it possible that management did so little to address it?

We were 19 games into the season at Thanksgiving. There was ample time to change up the culture of the team. Instead, Drury thought he could just deal a few malcontents like Trouba and Kakko (and replace them with mediocrity) and that would suffice? That was a huge mistake.

 

[Levitate]

Well, he can't move Mika easily right now and he did put Kreider on the market and Kreider told everyone how injured he was

 

[Kendo]

5) Play Brett Berard like 50 minutes a game.

You son of a B, I'm in!

 

[will1066]

Miller's comments scream like he was held hostage by Housley and he is ready for tutelage under a real coach.

 

[RangerBoy]

Brooks brought up Peca. He was hoping Peca would have received an opportunity if the Rangers fired Laviolette during the season. The Rangers didn't fire Peca and Muse. The next coach will have the opportunity to keep them for their coaching staff. Why not elevate Peca to head coach and Muse is the associate coach? Everyone says they did a good job the last few seasons. The Rangers hire someone like Brad Shaw to run the D and work with the D. The D have gotten better at every stop under Shaw. St. Louis. Columbus. Philadelphia. Hire another experienced assistant coach. Someone has been a head coach. Perhaps someone like Andrew Brunette who might lose his job in Nashville.

Peca has never been a head coach at any level. Brind'Amour never ran a bench before becoming Carolina head coach. Both of them had good NHL careers. It's hockey. This is a puck. We need to put the puck in the net.

Brooks said the Rangers next head coach needs to empower the young players. Peca worked with a lot of good young players in the Buffalo system. Muse worked with young players at the US program. Gabe Perreault.

 

[will1066]

It’s not meant to be some profound statement on anything it’s just a joke so if it offends anyone I’m sorry, I was just trying to make people have a chuckle and I’m not trying to get into fights here, I basically just post photoshops

To be fair, that's Mika's physique

Mika: JT you skipped exit interviews. Tsk tsk.

JT: Well you skipped weights.

 

[TheTakedown]

The entitlement is wild. He’s just a midwestern jock, right place and time. Big dumbass posing as a sensitive artist in Chelsea. Captain? Absolute joke from Day 1. He’s a Derian Hatcher-era #4, a dumb but useful soldier. Leader? Never. Entitled idiot.

100%. I have always disliked him as an individual. He always left a bad taste in my mouth, I knew from day 1 he was a "me first" kind of player. It's sad that Gorton thought he was a piece you could win with

 

[TheTakedown]

Hoo boy, Mika and K'andre in particular come off pretty poorly in their comments.

Vally is right, it's not the players' job to worry about what management is doing. Play better and none of your friends are going to get traded if that's priority number one. Complaining you don't know what's going on is particularly rich when everyone in the hockey world knew what Drury was doing, everyone knew who the weak links and bad contracts were. It started over the summer, plain as day. Even had his league wide message about wanting to move core guys go public, that's more than most players ever hear. Does Drury need to consult Mika Zibanejad with every decision he's making?

Blaming his play on that and calling it the hardest time of his career is so insanely mentally weak and it's flat out admitting he can't tune out the noise. At least Kreider has somewhat of an excuse with his body failing him this year, Mika literally lived up to the meme of him being a depressed baby. I've flipped my view on them, I'd ship Mika out and keep Kreider around for bottom 6 and PK duty if one of them has to stay.

Managers manage, coaches coach and players play. You can only control what you can control, how does an NHL veteran with his experience and time in the league think it's acceptable at all to use any of what Drury was doing as an excuse? You're paid handsomely to play hockey, not worry about what the GM is doing or even worse, curate a friend group. The goal is to win the Stanley Cup.

Couldn't state this any better. Dead on

 

[bleedblue94]

Care to share links where former players "universally" are shitting on Mika?

And stop with the narrative that Mika wanted part in roster decisions. You guys are lunatics if that is what you took from his comments.

You need me to share a link for you to just listen to reactions of clean out day? Don't be dense, you can find it easy and people have posted some of it even on these boards.

Narrative that Mika wanted a part in roster decisions? Seriously? Have you paid attention to anything going on with this team? Haha

 

[TheTakedown]

I'm not pissed that he exercised his trade protection, I don't like how entitled & special he acted. But let's be clear, he wasn't doing ANYONE any favors...sounds like you're erroneously thinking he had full trade protection when he only had a 15 team no trade list.

Because he didn't have a full NTC, there was nothing to waive, nor would there be any reason for the Rangers to incentivize him to do so. However, he & his agent strategically maneuvered around it when they began feeding the media his rumored destinations. Larry Brooks on spitting chicklets basically confirmed that he & his agent were the ones that leaked the Detroit rumors & how he didn't want to leave NY, which basically killed his value last summer & preventing Drury from making a deal becuase he had zero leverage. No chance we get anything back for him & we probably have to retain at that point once all the issues about his wife were put out there.

Not only did he relent in December he admitted he quit on the team. So we're back to this issue about him & his teammates punting the season. Trouba is exhibit A. You don't think his friends on the team didn't follow his lead when they were in the midst of a 4-15 collapse, showing absolutely zero heart or effort?

Regardless, Trouba was the one who came out & said that when Drury told him he would be waived, Drury also did the right thing by trading him to Anaheim. California is full of teaching hospitals & winding up in sunny So Cal isn't a bad punishment when you suck at your previous job & quit on your team. I'd call that doing right by him. Anyway, Trouba was the source on that when he did an interview immediately following the trade. Look it up.

You think he did nothing wrong. I & many others think he acted like a self entitled prick... he had a prior history of being a self entitled prick. Your views are very player centric. Usually I am too, but this core can get f***ed. I've never despised an entire team more than this one.

Love all of this. Spot on

 

[bleedblue94]

“Goodrow and Trouba are the soul of this shit”

- Chris Kreider, probably.

Goodrow and trouba saved me for needing to step up out of my comfort zone and be more responsible for the team that I claim is mine.

- Chris Kreider, literally.

 

[McRanger92]

Universally former players are publicly shitting on Mika for those comments. He's a player, he isn't a part of management. And mika's comments are completely in line with what I shared prior to Thanksgiving that this was coming bc the players had become so entitled that they thought they were in charge, and hence here Mika acts like he should have been included in these decisions in some manner. The big dogs in the league that are actual star players don't pull this garbage. Mika thinks he's something more than he is and clean out day as a whole is just an example of the issues with this core. You're getting paid 8.5m a year and you're talking about your feelings for 7 f***ing months that you played lifeless hockey. Be sad, process, and then do your job. Or at the very least keep a consistent effort if you want to wear an A on your jersey. You're a rep of the players in the room and you took zero accountability and instead pointed to everything else. This guy is no leader at all, and if he is a leader for your group then this season is what you should expect. Again, people don't realize just how much and how important trouba and Goodrow were because they managed THIS lack of internal accountability and pulse. You rip them out of the room and it gave more space for the entitled zombies to have a bigger voice. Fox, Mika, kreider, panarin? Dear good, what a bunch of betas. No wonder they prioritized getting the Miller deal done to get an alpha back in the room to replace trouba. People shouldn't think it's a coincidence that Mika gets pulled away from kreider and put with Miller? Clean out day should demonstrate just how little of a pulse this group has. No one even seemed pissed they were leaving, they all wanted to go home and feel bad for themselves.

It’s very funny to me in hindsight that Trouba had to pull the helmet toss card 20 minutes into his captaincy because of the lack of care the team had coming off an unexpected ECF appearance. Panarin, Mika and Kreider wear A’s but aren’t leaders. They’ve just been here the longest.

 

[TheTakedown]

Why didn’t they step up and provide leadership among the team and play better?

Goodrow and Trouba didn’t leave holes in the lineup that were hard to fill. But if they were the only things keeping the other guys in line then it’s an indictment of the rest of the players

Trading a few players shouldn’t result in an existential crisis. There’s no reason the players should get to demand to be told Drury plans at that point. Play the game. You’ve been playing like shit, worry about your own game.

People letting their dislike of Drury get in the way of realizing how wild shit like those statements from Zibanejad are. Vally is right.

I've never heard of a professional work environment where 1 weak link gets traded and the remaining members of the team "quit on their job" because Harry the loser who was overpaid and underperforming was fired.

The fact that people twist into "Drury didn't tell them what was going on, zibanejad is right!" Just confirms to me how little people understand about professional environments. This kind of shit DOES NOT FLY in the real world, and Zibanejad seems to be speaking between the lines that he blows chunks at this but it's everybody else's fault. What an entitled f***ing loser.

 

[McRanger92]

I'm not pissed that he exercised his trade protection, I don't like how entitled & special he acted. But let's be clear, he wasn't doing ANYONE any favors...sounds like you're erroneously thinking he had full trade protection when he only had a 15 team no trade list.

Because he didn't have a full NTC, there was nothing to waive, nor would there be any reason for the Rangers to incentivize him to do so. However, he & his agent strategically maneuvered around it when they began feeding the media his rumored destinations. Larry Brooks on spitting chicklets basically confirmed that he & his agent were the ones that leaked the Detroit rumors & how he didn't want to leave NY, which basically killed his value last summer & preventing Drury from making a deal becuase he had zero leverage. No chance we get anything back for him & we probably have to retain at that point once all the issues about his wife were put out there.

Not only did he relent in December he admitted he quit on the team. So we're back to this issue about him & his teammates punting the season. Trouba is exhibit A. You don't think his friends on the team didn't follow his lead when they were in the midst of a 4-15 collapse, showing absolutely zero heart or effort?

Regardless, Trouba was the one who came out & said that when Drury told him he would be waived, Drury also did the right thing by trading him to Anaheim. California is full of teaching hospitals & winding up in sunny So Cal isn't a bad punishment when you suck at your previous job & quit on your team. I'd call that doing right by him. Anyway, Trouba was the source on that when he did an interview immediately following the trade. Look it up.

You think he did nothing wrong. I & many others think he acted like a self entitled prick... he had a prior history of being a self entitled prick. Your views are very player centric. Usually I am too, but this core can get f***ed. I've never despised an entire team more than this one.

Trouba was no doubt the leader of this team. Unfortunately he was also without question the worst captain in the modern history of the franchise. It really didn’t need to be that way, but it was.

 

[DanielBrassard]

One thing Larry said during the podcast that shocked me was that he thought the rangers are not nearly as talented as the perception is. Didn’t expect that from him.

 

[bleedblue94]

What you are describing is obviously an indictment of Mika and the other players, but even more, it's an indictment of management. Because if you were able to see this huge player problem unfolding 5 months ago, then how is it possible that management did so little to address it?

We were 19 games into the season at Thanksgiving. There was ample time to change up the culture of the team. Instead, Drury thought he could just deal a few malcontents like Trouba and Kakko (and replace them with mediocrity) and that would suffice? That was a huge mistake.

What part of management tried to start the process last summer have you missed?? Kurt outmaneuvered Drury and it clipped his nuts, so be dicked Goodrow to flex on the group and things get worse and worse until trouba actually moves, and then things get even worse. And here we are. This all really started bc Drury tried to do what everyone here basically wanted which was to trade trouba last summer but his agent owned the situation.

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't get how people complain about the players' behavior but think the president and GM being a giant baby is a good culture. Clearly it could have been handled better.

Again, I point to de Haan. People will say he's not a significant player, which just another lame excuse, but that dude got pissed in about 10 seconds.

People will point to the Lightning and Avalanche as examples of teams that lost key players, but how do we know there wasn't communication there? We have no idea how that was handled.

What we do know is that Chris Drury's team is 24th in the NHL in xGF% since he took over. The roster he put together sucks. It's time that he's held accountable.

I'm not saying some of the cultural stuff isn't an issue. Even if it had no effect, at best, they're still embarrassing. But who perpetuates that culture? Who put all of the offenders on the roster? Is the captain not responsible for his ship?

80% of this roster was put together by Gorton. Who is a "Drury acquisition" outside of Reilly Smith, Barclay Goodrow, and a couple of non-descript bottom 6ers / bottom pair dmen?

There is nobody else. This is GORTONS roster that was put together to its near-final form in 2021-22

 

[bleedblue94]

One thing Larry said during the podcast that shocked me was that he thought the rangers are not nearly as talented as the perception is. Didn’t expect that from him.

And he's right. The rangers play high risk east west hockey bc they need that to score goals. The players generally don't have the elite talent to create offense on their own, they need to get defenses to shift side to side to open up holes.

 

[bleedblue94]

It’s very funny to me in hindsight that Trouba had to pull the helmet toss card 20 minutes into his captaincy because of the lack of care the team had coming off an unexpected ECF appearance. Panarin, Mika and Kreider wear A’s but aren’t leaders. They’ve just been here the longest.

The helmet toss and much much more so the interview he did after that game were pretty telling. That post game interview was alarming to me at the time and if people go listen to it again in its entirety (not msg edited and clipped) I think it would now make much more sense 2.5 years later and make sense of where things are today. Trouba was much more of a positive here than a negative, just most people did not understand the main work he was doing was in the room managing the mess in there. I imagine that once he left he was relieved not having to deal with it all anymore holding the group together.