Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX (WTF are we going to do this Off-Season edition)

[GoAwayPanarin]

One thing Larry said during the podcast that shocked me was that he thought the rangers are not nearly as talented as the perception is. Didn’t expect that from him.

This episode was a fantastic listen. LB and Boyle were spitting fire the entire ep and really nailed it from start to finish, from the criticism of the players to coaching and everything in between.

Boyle was ready to throw hands at Zibanejad.

 

[TheTakedown]

I get the Drury hate, and I’m no apologist, but as far as this “core” goes and its treatment I submit the following for review:

1. Drury was handed a roster full of NMC’s and people he didn’t draft. Only now are his fingerprints really starting on this team.

2. After the Florida loss last year Drury acknowledged that this team wasn’t good enough. He tried to address that by trading Trouba the “nice way” and was subsequently cock blocked into running back the same roster. Goodrow, while a leader in the room had a horrific regular season and did nothing to justify his cap hit short of a few playoff goals. Look at Carrick’s performance. How was that move? Goodrow needed to go for SOME flexibility cap wise.

3. So, Drury ran it back (and this definitely a bone thrown to “the core”) and after a 12-4-1 record, or whatever it was, that was clearly a f***ing mirage decided that what he felt after last year’s playoffs was correct. This group is never getting it done so out goes “the memo”

4. Said group folds like a house of cards and, in the process, proves that Drury was completely right. Let the blow up begin

Drury has been average but at least he has the stones to break this thing up and acknowledge that he has to be better. That’s something I heard very litttle of from the players yesterday.

And, yes, the Vancouver resident above is correct. Everything that I’ve heard re: JTM and EP is that EP is the pouting softee, not Miller.

This post is 100% correct. This is exactly what I observed when it comes to this team. I bet if you go back to game day threads for those games during that 12-4-1 run, it's half filled with people begging for Drury to trade X player, acquire Y player, fire laviolette....

Drury goes and does all of that now all the sudden he's an "out of touch, mean GM who doesn't talk to his players". Give me a f***ing break. These whiners are just as entitled as Zibanejad and KMiller are. Absolute f***ing loser.

 

[TheTakedown]

The helmet toss and much much more so the interview he did after that game were pretty telling. That post game interview was alarming to me at the time and if people go listen to it again in its entirety (not msg edited and clipped) I think it would now make much more sense 2.5 years later and make sense of where things are today. Trouba was much more of a positive here than a negative, just most people did not understand the main work he was doing was in the room managing the mess in there. I imagine that once he left he was relieved not having to deal with it all anymore holding the group together.

This is interesting. Do you have this clip?

 

[Guyute]

Brooks brought up Peca. He was hoping Peca would have received an opportunity if the Rangers fired Laviolette during the season. The Rangers didn't fire Peca and Muse. The next coach will have the opportunity to keep them for their coaching staff. Why not elevate Peca to head coach and Muse is the associate coach? Everyone says they did a good job the last few seasons. The Rangers hire someone like Brad Shaw to run the D and work with the D. The D have gotten better at every stop under Shaw. St. Louis. Columbus. Philadelphia. Hire another experienced assistant coach. Someone has been a head coach. Perhaps someone like Andrew Brunette who might lose his job in Nashville.

Peca has never been a head coach at any level. Brind'Amour never ran a bench before becoming Carolina head coach. Both of them had good NHL careers. It's hockey. This is a puck. We need to put the puck in the net.

Brooks said the Rangers next head coach needs to empower the young players. Peca worked with a lot of good young players in the Buffalo system. Muse worked with young players at the US program. Gabe Perreault.

I love this

And he's right. The rangers play high risk east west hockey bc they need that to score goals. The players generally don't have the elite talent to create offense on their own, they need to get defenses to shift side to side.

I disagree. The Rangers choose to play fancy hockey. They would score of goals by the boatload with their talent if they simplified their game. Instead, the CHOOSE to make 4 passes before scoring. They choose to make the east-west lazy turnover rather than muck it up in the corner when that cross-ice pass isn’t there. These decisions lead to bad turnovers, which leads to scrambling, which leads to long shifts in the D-zone, which leads to ineffective line changes, which leads to the ice tilting in the other team’s favor, which leads to horrendous xGA. Again, they choose to play this way. This is why the core is so rotten. They are stubborn and unwilling to play the right way. A goal is a goal, whether it takes 4 consecutive tape to tape passes or it bounces off your Johnson and in.

 

[McRanger92]

The helmet toss and much much more so the interview he did after that game were pretty telling. That post game interview was alarming to me at the time and if people go listen to it again in its entirety (not msg edited and clipped) I think it would now make much more sense 2.5 years later and make sense of where things are today. Trouba was much more of a positive here than a negative, just most people did not understand the main work he was doing was in the room managing the mess in there. I imagine that once he left he was relieved not having to deal with it all anymore holding the group together.

And it’s one of the main reasons JT Miller is here now. Because the locker room of soft crybaby’s like Mika can’t pull themselves together when adversity hits. Smart posters grasping at straws acting likes he’s too old at 32 or that the Rangers gave up too much. Drury tried to add foxhole guys in-season like JT, Borgen even Vaakanainen because the young players had no veteran leadership to lean on. This team isn’t that talented but it’s not the fault of the bottom & middle of the lineup guys. I’m sure our future core players like Lafreniere and Fox loved hearing that Panarin got drunk and tried to assault another staffer.

 

[bleedblue94]

The criticisms of JT being a bad culture guy because “Elias Petterson’s charts look good” just don’t carry weight. Anecdotally or on the ice.

Let's call the Miller Elias thing what it was. Miller was all over Elias for his lack of commitment. He pushed him to take his prep and focus up as Elias was being viewed as a franchise cornerstone. Hughes wants Elias to be resigned and sides with him, Miller gets brought under control until Elias comes to camp this year is pour shape and it throws gas on the whole thing again. Now the Canucks are shitting themselves that Hughes won't resign now and at the same time calling out Elias again for his training and summer routine. Basically the Canucks side against Miller to try to keep the younger team pieces happy and now that Miller is gone the organization is basically repeating (now publicly) things that Miller was advocating for inside the room. It's funny how that has happened and played out and it's really possible that within the next 24 months the canucks will be without me Miller, Hughes, and Peterson. What a mess.

 

[TheTakedown]

The thing is, if Drury is really trying to save his job and make the playoffs next year he's not going to accomplish it by trading Kreider, Zib or Panarin for futures. Even with Miller and Trochek here you need more than two guys that can put the puck in the net. It's going to cost a package of youngs guys like Berard, Othman, and picks. Sans Perault, there is not one impact, stud young player on this roster or in the system. A player like Cuyle is a vital part of a cup winning roster but he's not a lead horse. Same as Berard, same at Othman, assuming he scores a goal ever. Or even better, package Laff and Miller for that C or LD. They are what they are. I feel like Schneider has more room to grow than either of those two lunkheads. This team is in no-man's land right now. Not good enough to compete, not good enough (or willing enough) to stink. This is Drury's mess, he created it.

The biggest changes Drury can make are removing of the players that don't want to be here. This doesn't necessarily destroy their value because these aren't 4th line players that were expecting 1st round picks for. Zibanejad with retention is easily worth a roster players swap, Miller is worth a roster player and a 1st for sure.

 

[McRanger92]

This post is 100% correct. This is exactly what I observed when it comes to this team. I bet if you go back to game day threads for those games during that 12-4-1 run, it's half filled with people begging for Drury to trade X player, acquire Y player, fire laviolette....

Drury goes and does all of that now all the sudden he's an "out of touch, mean GM who doesn't talk to his players". Give me a f***ing break. These whiners are just as entitled as Zibanejad and KMiller are. Absolute f***ing loser.

12-4-1 because of Igor.

I remember a cryptic post from an “In the Know” poster here about the Rangers having a bit too much fun after a horrendous effort in Calgary. Never got more info but I do know they got shit pumped in Edmonton the next day. Then the memo from Fuhrer Drury came out that night. I can put 2+2 together.

 

[bleedblue94]

And it’s one of the main reasons JT Miller is here now. Because the locker room of soft crybaby’s like Mika can’t pull themselves together when adversity hits. Smart posters grasping at straws acting likes he’s too old at 32 or that the Rangers gave up too much. Drury tried to add foxhole guys in-season like JT, Borgen even Vaakanainen because the young players had no veteran leadership to lean on. This team isn’t that talented but it’s not the fault of the bottom & middle of the lineup guys. I’m sure our future core players like Lafreniere and Fox loved hearing that Panarin got drunk and tried to assault another staffer.

And not to sound like an ass, but moving chytil's contract was a complete positive. He isn't going to last to the end of that deal. Even Friedman said a couple months ago teams around the league didn't want to touch chytil when the rangers floated him bc of his head injuries.

 

[TheTakedown]

Let's call the Miller Elias thing what it was. Miller was all over Elias for his lack of commitment. He pushed him to take his prep and focus up as Elias was being viewed as a franchise cornerstone. Hughes wants Elias to be resigned and sides with him, Miller gets brought under control until Elias comes to camp this year is pour shape and it throws gas on the whole thing again. Now the Canucks are shitting themselves that Hughes won't resign now and at the same time calling out Elias again for his training and summer routine. Basically the Canucks side against Miller to try to keep the younger team pieces happy and now that Miller is gone the organization is basically repeating (now publicly) things that Miller was advocating for inside the room. It's funny how that has happened and played out and it's really possible that within the next 24 months the canucks will be without me Miller, Hughes, and Peterson. What a mess.

This reads like a soap opera lmao

 

[McRanger92]

Let's call the Miller Elias thing what it was. Miller was all over Elias for his lack of commitment. He pushed him to take his prep and focus up as Elias was being viewed as a franchise cornerstone. Hughes wants Elias to be resigned and sides with him, Miller gets brought under control until Elias comes to camp this year is pour shape and it throws gas on the whole thing again. Now the Canucks are shitting themselves that Hughes won't resign now and at the same time calling out Elias again for his training and summer routine. Basically the Canucks side against Miller to try to keep the younger team pieces happy and now that Miller is gone the organization is basically repeating (now publicly) things that Miller was advocating for inside the room. It's funny how that has happened and played out and it's really possible that within the next 24 months the canucks will be without me Miller, Hughes, and Peterson. What a mess.

Preach.

 

[TheTakedown]

I like Laff's comments. He actually took responsibility.

Laf was one of the few guys this season that looked like he did his best to commit to playing well even when he wasn't... People don't realize how difficult that is when the veterans that are supposed to be leading your team can't give two f***s. This kid is 23, people who are clamoring "why didn't he step up" after reading all of these blurbs about how this team is uncoachable and how this team can't get their heads out of their asses, what the f*** was he supposed to do? These problems are completely above his pay grade, all of it goes back to the rotten veteran core.

 

[bleedblue94]

I love this

I disagree. The Rangers choose to play fancy hockey. They would score of goals by the boatload with their talent if they simplified their game. Instead, the CHOOSE to make 4 passes before scoring. They choose to make the east-west lazy turnover rather than muck it up in the corner when that cross-ice pass isn’t there. These decisions lead to bad turnovers, which leads to scrambling, which leads to long shifts in the D-zone, which leads to ineffective line changes, which leads to the ice tilting in the other team’s favor, which leads to horrendous xGA. Again, they choose to play this way. This is why the core is so rotten. They are stubborn and unwilling to play the right way. A goal is a goal, whether it takes 4 consecutive tape to tape passes or it bounces off your Johnson and in.

Other than Panarin who on the roster can beat other teams players 1 on 1 with any level of consistency?

Also regarding peca all I can do is cringe. After a season like this how in God's name can the team promote an assistant from within that was literally on the bench and in the room all season but didn't effect any change to the disaster that was this season. Not sure how peca or so muse can be PROMOTED after a season like what just happened when they were a part of it.

 

[McRanger92]

And not to sound like an ass, but moving chytil's contract was a complete positive. He isn't going to last to the end of that deal. Even Friedman said a couple months ago teams around the league didn't want to touch chytil when the rangers floated him bc of his head injuries.

It’s a shame about Chytil. Truly. Could’ve been a star if he wasn’t a jelly head. Mancini was the best piece they gave up in that deal. The same people lamenting his loss now were telling me he was a nobody in November. He’ll have a long career whether sad sack Quinn is in Vancouver or not.

 

[TheTakedown]

Too busy with personal matters to show up for exit meetings, but evidently not too busy to play golf lol

More than likely he scheduled this many months ago. It's not like it would hurt him financially if he paid for it but couldn't go, but with the team out of the playoffs I don't see a problem.

 

[bleedblue94]

This reads like a soap opera lmao

Thats exactly what it's been in Vancouver.

When the GM and the head coach both basically call out petterson for the same stuff as the guy they traded away to save drama then it's a circus. Especially after the team gave the guy a stupid contract to which he has regressed (laffy 2.0 ha). I brought tocchet up as someone to watch for the nyr job as far back as 3 months ago. He's probably not resigning in Vancouver this summer and people assume he's going to phili but nyr is for for him if nyr can clean up its own circus. Tocchet wants to coach, not babysit. Tocchet and Miller are also very much on good terms.

 

[TheTakedown]

Imo he went behind Gorton's back and told Dolan that if he were running the team he'd make it tougher. Just my opinion, how is the assistant GM the only guy that saved his job during that cleaning house of firings? I'll tell ya how, he's the rat.

Or....


This guy does in fact know what he's doing, a CEO saw the talent in him, and then identified significant weaknesses in his current staff, and promoted the one who saw the same weaknesses

I swear to God, 90% of the posters on this site have absolutely no idea how talent scouting works, whether it's sports or an office job.

 

[bleedblue94]

This is interesting. Do you have this clip?

I don't have it saved anymore. Trouba said things without saying them. He stopped himself at times mid sentence from naming names of players that did not play a team game. He called out gallant for not having control of the group and maintaining accountability despite talking tough. That interview was a precursor to this season bc the people he was talking about about at the time are the ones still here that were front and center with the mess this year. They needed alpha trouba to drive them, trouba gets neutered and shipped out and the limp zombies are allowed to do it their way. We see the results of that.

 

[TheTakedown]

This team sucks eight ways to Sunday and they traded a 1st for a 33-year-old.

Here's my ass.

View attachment 1020198

Stop complaining about the first round pick. We dumped a 3rd line center with significant concussion issues who may never play again. Assuming this team isn't a dumpster fire next year that 1st is likely a 20-25th. Is that not worth the 90 point player we acquired?

 

[TheTakedown]

Universally former players are publicly shitting on Mika for those comments. He's a player, he isn't a part of management. And mika's comments are completely in line with what I shared prior to Thanksgiving that this was coming bc the players had become so entitled that they thought they were in charge, and hence here Mika acts like he should have been included in these decisions in some manner. The big dogs in the league that are actual star players don't pull this garbage. Mika thinks he's something more than he is and clean out day as a whole is just an example of the issues with this core. You're getting paid 8.5m a year and you're talking about your feelings for 7 f***ing months that you played lifeless hockey. Be sad, process, and then do your job. Or at the very least keep a consistent effort if you want to wear an A on your jersey. You're a rep of the players in the room and you took zero accountability and instead pointed to everything else. This guy is no leader at all, and if he is a leader for your group then this season is what you should expect. Again, people don't realize just how much and how important trouba and Goodrow were because they managed THIS lack of internal accountability and pulse. You rip them out of the room and it gave more space for the entitled zombies to have a bigger voice. Fox, Mika, kreider, panarin? Dear good, what a bunch of betas. No wonder they prioritized getting the Miller deal done to get an alpha back in the room to replace trouba. People shouldn't think it's a coincidence that Mika gets pulled away from kreider and put with Miller? Clean out day should demonstrate just how little of a pulse this group has. No one even seemed pissed they were leaving, they all wanted to go home and feel bad for themselves.

Good take

 

[TheTakedown]

Pretty amazing we bitch about what having Zuccarello this whole time could have meant to the team on one hand, while on the hand lambasting a point per game player that turned 32 one month ago

The Gorton plan, that's all I have to say about that...

 

[McRanger92]

Mika to the Habs for Josh Anderson or Brendan Gallagher is going to piss so many people off this summer. I can’t wait. Huge win for the NYR when it happens.

 

[Machinehead]

Stop complaining about the first round pick. We dumped a 3rd line center with significant concussion issues who may never play again. Assuming this team isn't a dumpster fire next year that 1st is likely a 20-25th. Is that not worth the 90 point player we acquired?

The 90 point player is gonna be gone before we're competitive again.

Also, this notion we're seeing recently that Chytil was somehow negative value is big time cope.

 

[bhamill]

I think it's still way too much overanalyzing. He's saying he wants to be better and is planning on committing himself even more to do that. Nothing more.

We all need to stop overanalyzing each and every word, and instead just glean the high level points that they are getting across.

Even with Mika - I think there's way too much harping on what he meant when he said "we didn't know everything". Maybe my bias is showing, but that was pretty simple to me, he's saying they didn't know if the team was going to be blown up and that hung over their heads most of the season and made it tough to focus. Not that crazy or outlandish a statement, IMO.

But that is NOT what he said… He said he was “ready to be better” this past season…
I’m not overanalyzing anything. I did not call him crazy or say it was “outlandish”. I directly quoted him and said it was an “odd” statement, because it IS. I didn’t put any words in his mouth or thoughts in his head… you seem to be doing that though. And overanalyzing what I said as well. And sure. He could have tripped on his words or something, maybe he did mean exactly what you said, then again, maybe not.. but I’m going by what HE SAID. It was still friggin odd. You can feel free to imagine what you think he meant, that’s fine. However don’t expect me to just accept your interpretation that you based on… I have no idea what.
As far as what Mika said, I dont really care if there were uncertainties or distractions. He’s a veteran pro, as Trocheck said, it was their job to play and deliver regardless of it. Mika’s trying to say that uncertainty of the front office is why he was a dead fish for the first half of the season? If that’s true it does not put him in a favorable light at all. It’s bad no matter which way you want to take it. IMO.

 

[TheTakedown]

Trouba was no doubt the leader of this team. Unfortunately he was also without question the worst captain in the modern history of the franchise. It really didn’t need to be that way, but it was.

I'll say it again. The Gorton plan...

The more I see this team come to fruition the more I realize I don't think Gorton knew what he was doing for this "rebuild"