Nurse for Buchnevich? or does Nurse have more value to the Oiliers and more than what teams would give up in a trade?
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIII
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Nurse for Buchnevich? or does Nurse have more value to the Oiliers and more than what teams would give up in a trade?
This isn't true.
Zucc has this reputation based off of a few post whistle scrums. He doesn't shy away from getting hit or anything, but he isn't some rough and tumble manlet.
He's had one fight in his career and he got his ass whooped.
Kreider hit Wilson harder a few weeks ago than Zuccarello has hit anyone in his entire life.
It could be a base but we’d be adding some good value. Nurse is quite good.
41 points in 82 last year. 160+ hits, 150 blocks, averaged 23:49 a game, 6’4 220, 24 years old. 17 points in 36 this year so on pace for just about the same.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I would think Jost falls into a somewhat similar category for the Rangers as Strome. In other words, "We didn't draft him 10th overall." In that mindset, I could see the Rangers not feeling particularly inclined to add.
Interestingly enough, there's been talk the Rangers are more intrigued by Jost as a winger, rather than as a center. So that could, on some level have at least a slight impact on how they view him as a commodity.
So, if you look at him through the prism of 2016, and his ceiling being a 25 goal, 60+ point center, then that will drive the price higher. Colorado, having already made an investment, will push for a return more reflective of that. On the other hand, if you're hoping to develop him into a 20 goal, 40+ second line wing, then that looks like a lower price point. For the Rangers, that's what they'd potentially be countering with in their approach.
There's a fair amount of risk for the Rangers as well. Right now, Jost is a player who doesn't look like a top two line center. So that leaves varying outcomes that include developing into a second line wing, evolving into a speedy bottom six forward who pops in the odd point, or a journeyman career. But if you can hit on that first option, that's an interesting return that doesn't involve waiting 3 or 4 years to find out.
Lion Hound
Pornhub Enthusiast
Jost is a weird one. He was electric when he played for the Fighting Sioux. At the NHL level he now has 171 GP. Only 29 goals in that time frame. Granted he is only 21 still. Just feel like at the NHL level i never watched him and said, man he's going to be good one.
They’d never do a rental/UFA for a 24 year old RFA playing 22+ minutes a night. It would have to be Buch ++.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Jost is one of those guys who you wonder what a change of scenery, role and linemates might do.
What happens if you slide him over the left with someone like, say, Chytil?
What happens if the Rangers do indeed connect with Toronto on a Nylander deal. What does a Jost-Chytil-Nylander line look?
In that same vein, it's really not that hard to imagine him playing in Europe 3 years from now.
The Rangers have, to this point, seemed to indicate internally that they want players more than picks. But that has its limits. On the one hand, teams aren't going to hand over prime young talent. On the other hand, you try to identify guys with growth potential despite their shortcomings thus far.
A year ago, Colorado balked at moving Jost for a year and a half of Kreider. This year the'd be getting Kreider for a matter of months, but Jost is also in the midst of another year where he doesn't look closer to the player they once envisioned. Is there room to meet in the middle? Hell, come February do the Rangers even feel like Jost is enough?
Disagree with your opinion that post-whistle scrums have no effect on the tone of a game and I personally don’t care much that Kreider hit one person in one game really hard. I’d take Zucc.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
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I really never understood the players over picks mindset, much like with the Hayes deal last deadline that pick turned into a player that summer.
It makes sense to me, playoff teams want their players, they are willing to give up picks, that means in the summer some of those same unavailable at the deadline players will be available as teams reshape their rosters/cap structure.
Deadline = supply of picks available from renters
Right before draft = picks are in demand.
Past the draft, UFA period also brings about a time where teams are looking to off-load players cap hits.
Some players decide they do not want to sign long term, therefor they become more available
In all I think teams actually get better value out of the two part, play the supply and demand game, process
It makes sense to me, playoff teams want their players, they are willing to give up picks, that means in the summer some of those same unavailable at the deadline players will be available as teams reshape their rosters/cap structure.
Deadline = supply of picks available from renters
Right before draft = picks are in demand.
Past the draft, UFA period also brings about a time where teams are looking to off-load players cap hits.
Some players decide they do not want to sign long term, therefor they become more available
In all I think teams actually get better value out of the two part, play the supply and demand game, process
Kreider has pasted more than just one guy.
Zucc plays chippy, but he doesn't use his "size" better than Kreider. Even half assed Kreider (who has been better lately.)
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
The thinking on players over picks is that you have a better understanding over who a prospect is a year or two after they were drafted. For example, there was much more confidence that Lindgren and Hajek would really be NHLers in March of 2018 than there was in June of 2016. Because of that, their value was greater than the 37 or 49 picks in the 2018 draft.
Also, you can accelerate things by getting young players who are almost ready to play in the NHL, instead of picks that you have to wait 3-4 years on.
But you have a point about being able to leverage picks into players later as well.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
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If you put Zuc in Kreiders body you would have it all.
BBKers
Registered User
And If You put Kreider in Zuccs body You would have an inconsistent, painfully fearful Leprechaun in a goats beard, destined to drop out of Squirt hockey, stuck in a swimming pool whilst mumbling ancient Russian poems
If there is one team which can go winless in ten games and fall out of the playoff race, it's Arizona. There is a lot of the season remaining.
Savant
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- Oct 3, 2013
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Jost doesn’t have a position at this level. He isn’t a center or a winger. Plus he has picked up injuries. I am not a fan of his. Not sure what he adds to the Rangers.
This means that if Arizona's pick falls in the top three, New Jersey does not get it, and instead gets the 2021 first round pick. From New Jersey's release:
"If Arizona’s 2020 first-round selection is in the top three, New Jersey will receive Arizona’s first-round pick in 2021."
RELEASE: Devils acquire picks and players in exchange for Hall, Speers
Getting a top 3 protected pick is much better than what we often see in other trades, where the picks can be anything from lottery protected all together to top 8 or whatever.
So I do think RB have a point, its good to get a top 3 protected pick, as opposed to being lottery protected or whatever. If you get a lottery protected pick in 2020 it cannot be 4th overall in 2020. If you get a pick that "just" is top 3 proceted, you can get the 4th overall.
So I do think RB have a point, its good to get a top 3 protected pick, as opposed to being lottery protected or whatever. If you get a lottery protected pick in 2020 it cannot be 4th overall in 2020. If you get a pick that "just" is top 3 proceted, you can get the 4th overall.
With Zucc, I also think he of almost could be cockier than many others because he is so small. I don't remember who it was, but I remember him slashing and cross-checking back against some heavy weight, and you could see that that guy just couldn't drop the gloves against this midget Norwegian. OTOH, I wouldn't advice 6'3 Filip Chytil to do the same thing.
So I definitely think that Zucc gave the team a boost with his courage and don't back down attitude. At the same time, being as small as he is, everything he did was a positive. With Kreider, we expect more. I am not sure if I agree that Zucc at the bottom line really was that much tougher than Kreider. Zucc is more consistent, but OTOH Kreider have had his moments too. But that should of course also be the case.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
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