Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

[Clark Kellogg]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

RangerBoy is bernmeister with better marketing.

Dude you cannot market better than learn w/ da bern.

 

[Alluckks]

I honestly don't think it is impossible that Kreider, Zib, and Panarin are all gone before next year's TDL.

I'd probably put the chances at 30% or greater really.

This is kind of a props to Drury for being willing to make those kind of sweeping changes rather than sitting on ass doing nothing like so so many GMs do. The players brought in may not be the right fits either, but I'd rather keep mixing and matching and trying to do something different than the monotony of bullshit that so many other franchises go through.

 

[duhmetreE]

Some sad news. Not sure if you remember @Ginger Papa but he passed away. Very sad. He once filled in some GDT's for me awhile back. Was just a fun and enthusiastic poster.

that's horrible news. Really sad to hear.

 

[duhmetreE]

I just don't see them moving Panarin. He's by far our best offensive player. A down year and he still has 73pts so far. That's not something easily replaced and you know Drury and co. are looking to compete. Only if there's an offer too good to pass up. I don't want 1st rounder draft picks... those are useless to this org.

Kreider is as good as gone. He has 11 Even-Strength points in 50+ games getting predominantly top6 minutes.... Zibs may have upped his value over the past stretch... Still have the NMC to contend with

Our coaching/approach is antiquated. IMO the players have given up and do not buy in. It needs to change along with some core pieces.

younger, fit modern NHL coach.
Some re-tooling. Add a LHD and make a big trade/acquisition.... or two. ( Tkachuk/Peterka etc )
Call all the players fat during the exit interviews and offer free training

 

[duhmetreE]

Panarin JTM Peterka
Tkachuk Zibs Cuylle
Berard Trocheck Othmann? Gabe if he's not used in Tkachuk deal
Edstrom Carrick Rempe

Chychrun Fox
KAM Borgen
Vaak/Soucy - Fabbro

Sign Chychrun
Sign Fabbro
Schneider for Peterka
Laffy++ for Tkachuk
Kreider to whoever

does this work cap wise? no clue

 

[NYR94]

RangerBoy is bernmeister with better marketing.

 

[RangerBoy]

In terms of high-danger chances, nothing separates the three.

1) Makar - 56.43% xGF
2) Fox - 55.19% xGF
3) Hughes - 55.03% xGF

Let's look at raw high-danger chance differential:

1) Makar - +44
2) Fox - +31
3) Hughes - + 25

Fox comes out ahead of Hughes. And keep in mind, the f***in Avalanche are A LOT better than the Rangers. Objectively so in this category.

In terms of goaltending, Makar gets better goaltending!

1) Makar - .918 on-ice sv%
2) Fox - .908 on-ice sv%
3) Hughes - .903 on-ice sv%

In fact, Fox gets some of the worst goaltending on the Rangers, ranking 18th on the squad.

And I know, that's because he sucks, and Igor is facing a bunch of chances, oh no! Except that there isn't a full-time Ranger remaining on the roster who gives up fewer high-danger shot attempts than Fox.

And even if you wanna follow that logic to its fruition, Hughes has to be worse defensively because his numbers are worse in every category.

Don't argue analytics. You're woefully out of your depth. Stick to your game.

The Rangers should be able to get a ton back for Adam Fox then.

 

[RangerBoy]

RangerBoy is bernmeister with better marketing.

Did I upset you again because I suggested trading Adam Fox?

 

[bernmeister]

RangerBoy is bernmeister with better marketing.

I know he is, but what am I?

Some sad news. Not sure if you remember @Ginger Papa but he passed away. Very sad. He once filled in some GDT's for me awhile back. Was just a fun and enthusiastic poster.

rip

like Weir sang, "you ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"

Contrary to the old adage, ignorance is not always bliss
being unwilling to learn like an ostrich with your head in the sand and your ass exposed is not just not a good look, but what you don't know can hurt/kill ya.

As that applies here, too many people not willing to make an effort to be open minded, think outside the box, try to amplify their right to a subjective based opinion with more objectivity.

learn w/da bern

 

[noncents]

Contrary to the old adage, ignorance is not always bliss
being unwilling to learn like an ostrich with your head in the sand and your ass exposed is not just not a good look, but what you don't know can hurt/kill ya.

As that applies here, too many people not willing to make an effort to be open minded, think outside the box, try to amplify their right to a subjective based opinion with more objectivity.

learn w/da bern

agreed. what you missed is that it's you who are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of other viewpoints.

i personally welcome all types of thinking - inside the box and out. what i don't welcome is rhetoric from someone who insists that their way is the only way to skin the cat. that's you.

 

[80s Kid]

Igor is the only reason the team is passable. Idk how people can watch Panarin play and feel any enjoyment. he doesn't do anything a franchise player should. Does he play with pace? No. Does he play in the middle of the ice? No. does he turn the puck over constantly at the blueline? Yes! Does he adjust his game to raise the level of his teammates? No. Is he accountable with the media despite wearing an A? No. Does he show up when it matters most? No.

He has been a top 5 highest paid player in the league his entire Rangers tenure. He's a mercenary and plays like one. We will be much better off when he is gone. The way he plays has infected everyone he is on the ice with. I guarantee during his tenure Mika, Kreider, Fox, Lafreniere and Trocheck are the players on the ice with him the most. they all do the same shit.

At this point Panarin seems like a drug that the Rangers are addicted to. He can get away with playing slower, east/west hockey because he's really talented and puts up points but the rest of the team cannot play the same way.

I like Panarin, and think he's a great hockey player. However, the Rangers need to move on from him if they want to change the way they play and get younger.

He can be a piece of the puzzle for a winning team but not THE piece.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

If the rangers are making a genuine effort to shake things up and become a tougher overall team to play against who plays more north south, it’s gonna take overpaying some guys like sam bennett and trent frederic.

Like realistically you can move kandre, you can get zadorov probably pretty cheap if you want since boston is entering a little rebuild.

Id move mika, kreider, kandre and if the right offer came for laff id consider moving him as well.

Bennett-JT-Perreault
Panarin-Trocheck-Byfield (byfield for laff trade?)
Cuylle-Drury-Frederic
Edstrom-Carrick-Rempe/Berard

Chychrun-Fox
Zadorov-Borgen
Vaak-Schneider

Igor
Quick

How do we get there

- Othmann and a 2nd for zadorov
- Kreider for assets
- Mika for assets
- Laff for byfield (both could use a change of scenery)
- Kandre for jack drury and a 2027 1st
- Chychrun 7 X $7.8 (this is his projection via AFP)
- Sam Bennett 7 X $6.5 (AFP has him at 6 X $6.3 but we probably need to give the extra year and couple extra bucks to offset tax advantages in florida)
- Trent Frederic 4 X $4.1 (via AFP)

 

[mike14]

Panarin JTM Peterka
Tkachuk Zibs Cuylle
Berard Trocheck Othmann? Gabe if he's not used in Tkachuk deal
Edstrom Carrick Rempe

Chychrun Fox
KAM Borgen
Vaak/Soucy - Fabbro

Sign Chychrun
Sign Fabbro
Schneider for Peterka
Laffy++ for Tkachuk
Kreider to whoever

does this work cap wise? no clue

I think there's too many RFA unknowns to make it work. Everyone would have to sign incredibly team friendly deals, and you'd need to bring back 0 salary in the Kreider trade. Even then it would be insanely tight

 

[tiggles]

If you're of the opinion that Panarin's style of play is affecting other players who try to play the same way but can't because they aren't as talented, then, to me, that's a coaching problem, not a Panarin problem.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I just don't see them moving Panarin. He's by far our best offensive player. A down year and he still has 73pts so far. That's not something easily replaced and you know Drury and co. are looking to compete. Only if there's an offer too good to pass up. I don't want 1st rounder draft picks... those are useless to this org.

Kreider is as good as gone. He has 11 Even-Strength points in 50+ games getting predominantly top6 minutes.... Zibs may have upped his value over the past stretch... Still have the NMC to contend with

Our coaching/approach is antiquated. IMO the players have given up and do not buy in. It needs to change along with some core pieces.

younger, fit modern NHL coach.
Some re-tooling. Add a LHD and make a big trade/acquisition.... or two. ( Tkachuk/Peterka etc )
Call all the players fat during the exit interviews and offer free training

It will be up to Panarin, if he wants to come back on a much lower money deal he'll be still here in 2 years, if not then he will likely walk in free agency if we are in a playoff spot at the deadline.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you're of the opinion that Panarin's style of play is affecting other players who try to play the same way but can't because they aren't as talented, then, to me, that's a coaching problem, not a Panarin problem.

I have a problem with the way that Panarin plays that is exclusive to how he plays.

I think his bad habits do rub off on players he plays with but it’s unfair to pin these issues on him exclusively, especially when it comes to guys he doesn’t share the ice with. I don’t think it’s his fault that Kreider has been bad.

I do think his endless leash and choosing who he wants to and doesn’t want to play with is an issue. Coaches should tell him to f*** off, but he should know better.

 

[UnparalledPark]

It's not a matter of for whom. It's a matter of him being healthy or not. If he's injured, and it's affecting his play, then he should have sat out well before we began trading people away.

He only sat out after he played in the 4-nations. Why did he play in that if he was injured? If he wasn't injured, then why has he sucked the entire year prior to that?

I mean, believe what you want, but the way he has handled things this year leaves a lot to be desired.

Desired by who, you? At the beginning of the year he had like 9 goals in less than 20 games. Then Lav started his line changing blitz. Why? Did Kreider hurt something that he hoped would get better with rest, but it didn't, so he came back at less than 100%? Did he get pissed at the Trouba trade? Doubtful, but who knows? Not you. You say that he shouldn’t have played in the 4 Nation debacle, and I agree, but it was his last chance to “play for his country”. He was stupid, but so was Matt Tkachuk, and Brady, and a half other players who got hurt in it. Either way, if they have better options, by all means bench Kreider, but if not, at least give him a little credit for playing when he could just take the rest of the year off.

 

[UnparalledPark]

They're in a bind with Panarin. He's simultaneously the best offensive threat and the biggest culprit in terms of affecting the no-accountability culture. To be able to pot 30 goals while playing like crap overall is pretty miraculous. How do you replace those goals is a legit question asked by many. But as long as he gets a free pass to turn over the puck all over the ice, nothing will change.

I would submit that Bread looks at the team and realizes he is the only guy scoring goals this year, and he is putting pressure on himself to score more. Doing so is causing him to take more chances with the puck and thus creating more turnovers. Granted he has always susceptible to turnovers, but I can see why this year he would have even more. As far as the accountability culture, you would have to take that up with the coach, that’s his job.

 

[GAGLine]

Desired by who, you?

I'm not the only one calling him out for how uninterested he has seemed this year. If you don't see it, you don't see it.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm not the only one calling him out for how uninterested he has seemed this year. If you don't see it, you don't see it.

The only way you could not see it is by not watching the games. Which probably really isn't a terrible idea at this point anyway.

 

[bernmeister]

agreed. what you missed is that it's you who are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of other viewpoints.

i personally welcome all types of thinking - inside the box and out. what i don't welcome is rhetoric from someone who insists that their way is the only way to skin the cat. that's you.

nope
I usually consider most other viewpoints
I then take pains to show why mine is correct or deserves consideration as more/most valid in comparison to others

Rempe is a good example here.
Nobody insisted as I did that to give this kid more minutes here was the correct course. I was mocked. Until I wasn't. Because I was right.
I don't get them all right all the time.
But I do get most of them right most of the time.

your false narrative to throw shade at me for not capitulating to the herd mentality is rebuffed here in the open

 

[bleedblue94]

In terms of high-danger chances, nothing separates the three.

1) Makar - 56.43% xGF
2) Fox - 55.19% xGF
3) Hughes - 55.03% xGF

Let's look at raw high-danger chance differential:

1) Makar - +44
2) Fox - +31
3) Hughes - + 25

Fox comes out ahead of Hughes. And keep in mind, the f***in Avalanche are A LOT better than the Rangers. Objectively so in this category.

In terms of goaltending, Makar gets better goaltending!

1) Makar - .918 on-ice sv%
2) Fox - .908 on-ice sv%
3) Hughes - .903 on-ice sv%

In fact, Fox gets some of the worst goaltending on the Rangers, ranking 18th on the squad.

And I know, that's because he sucks, and Igor is facing a bunch of chances, oh no! Except that there isn't a full-time Ranger remaining on the roster who gives up fewer high-danger shot attempts than Fox.

And even if you wanna follow that logic to its fruition, Hughes has to be worse defensively because his numbers are worse in every category.

Don't argue analytics. You're woefully out of your depth. Stick to your game.

So you're asserting that he's entirely so good and yet what's happening around him?

The dumpster fire team just went 3-3-2 without him and had 23gf and 20ga during that time along with two shutouts.

30-27-4 with him this year with 182gf and 186ga

For a player that is so victimized by how bad his own team and d partners are and who also apparently should be a Norris candidate based on what you peddling it's weird how there was all no discernible collapsed while he was out. That's just so weird...

 

[mike14]

A big problem with Fox is how many legit teams could he be traded to? You'd need a pretty strong team culture to make sure he takes his preparation, fitness etc seriously which rules out a lot of crappier clubs; plus they may be worried about his attitude amongst younger playing groups.

Somewhere like Florida might make sense if they think they can whip him into shape, although a bit of a problem now after they grabbed Seth Jones...

I wonder if they would consider something like the rights to Bennett (or even a sign and trade), 2027 1st, Mikkola and maybe a D prospect?
Cats get a guy that might help them if he buys in. We get someone who should help stop the 'East-West rot' and set some standards, some future help and a dependable guy who take some of Fox's role...

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The rest of this year should be for getting Othmann and Berard more minutes, trying out other young players in Hartford. Invest the time now to build a team with young players for next year. Playing Othmann and Berard on the 4th line is some serious bullshit, the same old story here. Put those guys with good players, put Othmann with Miller, I guarantee he pops with him. Put Berard with some good players, this isn't rocket science.

Panarin miller Othman
Cuylle Zibanejad Berard
Kreider(if he has to play) Trochek Lafreniere
Brodz Carrick Rempe
That can't be any worse than what we're doing now, I think it would add some life, create some competition between the young players and Lafreniere as well. All 3 lines can score, 4th can hold its own as well.