Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

[bernmeister]

Condolences to all the freaks and weridos that wanted Kreider gone. Choke on your tears.

There's only like five of us, but speak to our consigliere @bernmeister about the truce.

I am reminded of Billy Crystal in "Analyze This"



"you want a fresh one?"
"known as the fuggin doctor"
"you broke my heart"

 

[Raspewtin]

If trading Miller, as I'm proposing, is a viable option so would other RFA's that we might be trading Miller for. Also, with the cap going up offer sheets might be a thing for once.

All D better than Miller UFA -

Chychrun
Ekblad
Pionk
Gavrikov
Provorov
Orlov
Grzelcyk

Better than Miller RFA

Romanov
Hughes (Luke)
York
Lohrei
Bouchard
Dobson
Byram

this list is really really bad man lol

the bolded, sure, but the rest? yikes.

 

[bernmeister]

Don't care honestly whatever it is. He's just not good enough to help the team right now trying to make the postseason and shouldn't be playing. Watch YT videos of his past performance if that brings you comfort.

NO, I care about a man being thrown under the bus when it isn't justified.

If anyone has legit proof that Kreider was pulling a Zib and not showing up b'c he felt like putting his head up his ass, at our expense, without good reason, then I will be the first to also give him the zib treatment and personally run him out of town.

But that not being the case, the vultures can stand down and go back.

also, post 2476

ps I have been saying for coupla yrs that barring getting lucky, this team would not go all the way, b'c it doesn't have the horses and our strategy has to change.
stop vets over youth, etc

you can admit I'm right on that or suffer in denial

 

[will1066]

NO, I care about a man being thrown under the bus when it isn't justified.

If anyone has legit proof that Kreider was pulling a Zib and not showing up b'c he felt like putting his head up his ass, at our expense, without good reason, then I will be the first to also give him the zib treatment and personally run him out of town.

But that not being the case, the vultures can stand down and go back.

also, post 2476

ps I have been saying for coupla yrs that barring getting lucky, this team would not go all the way, b'c it doesn't have the horses and our strategy has to change.
stop vets over youth, etc

you can admit I'm right on that or suffer in denial

I'll repeat. I don't care. Shouldn't be in the lineup at the end of the day.

 

[bernmeister]

I'll repeat. I don't care. Shouldn't be in the lineup at the end of the day.

I repeat.
that's fine as to a conclusion.
BUT BUT BUT BUT
you don't accuse someone without a reasonable basis

 

[DanielBrassard]

They couldn’t get it done when this core was in their prime. It would be insanity to try again next season. At least 2 of Kreider, Panarin, and Zibanejad need to go.

Hopefully this Zibanejad streak will allow the rangers to move him out without taking back much salary or retaining. But totally agree. Kreider and Zibanejad should be traded. Panarin is up for debate IMO. I could see going in either direction.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

this list is really really bad man lol

the bolded, sure, but the rest? yikes.

I think you can make an argument for Gavrikov. Really solid 2 way defender.

Even guys like Bouchard and Dobson would be loooaatthhheeedd here. I think Bouchard plays for 1 of maybe 2-3 teams in this league where he would be as successful as he is. He's really good at 3 things.

- Shooting
- Stretch pass
- Skating (straight lines at least.)

Everything else is average or worse.

He's a great fit for what the Oilers do (ditto Walman who is going to cook there.) It also helps that the Oilers went out and got him a legitimate partner who knows what he's doing.

Our FO doesn't want to do that and the HC makes matters worse by breaking up the pairs that actually happen to work by accident.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I repeat.
that's fine as to a conclusion.
BUT BUT BUT BUT
you don't accuse someone without a reasonable basis

I think it’s a reasonable accusation

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

ok, which is it?
Kreider is faking it which is contrary to eye test: can barely move, not check w/authority, etc.?
or
he is injured, which begs ? why was he not on ltir BUT that begs ? of what is his best regimen for a return? complete sit? go partial tilt? full til? alternating combos?

WE DO NOT KNOW
but given what we do know,
that we had this guy do all the tip in dirty work in front of the net b'c nobody else was stud enuf to do so, we can SEE how he got injured.

It is MORE plausible to conclude he is injured and has been trying to come back and he's not cured enough for that to be effective.

The persecution needs to stop

Id be willing to wager a significant amount that not once in the history of back injuries has a doctor ever said "You should rotate between sitting, going half tilt, going full tilt, then resting again." It's not logical at all. You get treatment/surgery and then rest it/rehab it off ice and don't return until it's completely healed.

 

[JohnC]

Almost none of those guys are better than him lol.

It’s just more melodramatic reactionary crap to this bunk season where basically the whole team’s been inconsistent. This board’s gone off the rails because grown ass men can’t cope with the fact that the team had a bad year after having a good year as if this doesn’t happen in sports all the time.

Miller at an AAV of ~5M would be great value under a $110M cap but we’re trading him and Schneider (who are both 25 and under and both looked good playing together last year) for the sake of trading them.

 

[MrAlmost]

This just goes back to the lack of patience. We are a middling team at best. Trading young, cheap players for an older, more expensive player isn't going to make us contenders.

Adding talent is paramount and there are only so many spots to be had on a roster. You've got panarin, laf, z, cuylle, berard, Ed, rempe, kaliyev, othmann, kreider, Perreault, sykora, brisson, etc.. Rangers have a lot of wingers and lhd and more coming. I don't see trading 22 year old for 25 year old as impatience. Maybe it's Peterka in the summer. He's 24? It could be argued Gorton held on to things too long. Perhaps getting out in front and sending Kreider, Othmann, Jones and Schneider for Peterka and Byram is a prudent move. Just cause othmann plays a tough game doesn't mean the guy you trade for can be a tough player. A player like peterka plays a tough, fast and direct game.

I mean I ain't married to any of these ideas and I am probably wrong. But fortune really has favored the bold lately in the NHL. The league is thin on talent and most guys don't make it. I like that Drury made things happen over the last year. Keep going.

 

[bernmeister]

I think it’s a reasonable accusation

based on what?
Put up or shut up

The most reasonable view per eye test is he is def hurt
BUT again, where is the proof he is intentionally dogging it?
WHERE?

 

[bernmeister]

Id be willing to wager a significant amount that not once in the history of back injuries has a doctor ever said "You should rotate between sitting, going half tilt, going full tilt, then resting again." It's not logical at all. You get treatment/surgery and then rest it/rehab it off ice and don't return until it's completely healed.

He probably is supposed to full rest and do recuperative exercises
Howev, either on his own or at Drury's urging, there is a push for him to try and play, whether that was smart or not [compared to full shut down]

What I said was applicable in that scenario

 

[haohmaru]

HSCs are awful and give way too much weight to goals for/against. I went over this with Loki a few weeks ago.

Using NST as part of their formula is even worse. Pionk has been one of the worst defensive defensemen in the league since he entered it. There is plenty of data to support this.

Okay, maybe, but Pionk isn’t “LOL” worthy in comparison to Miller. Miller has had a complete dogshit season.

You can use whatever metric you like but Miller really isn’t a top 4 D this year and shouldn’t be paid like one. That’s really my main concern here.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Okay, maybe, but Pionk isn’t “LOL” worthy in comparison to Miller. Miller has had a complete dogshit season.

You can use whatever metric you like but Miller really isn’t a top 4 D this year and shouldn’t be paid like one. That’s really my main concern here.

Pionk is LOL worthy in comparison to anyone. He’s a horrific defender who Jets fans want to feed to the mooses at the end of every year.

Miller has been this teams best defender since the new year. Ok he made a bad pass in OT. That doesn’t negate all the good things he’s done for 2+ months.

Do you want me to show you Byram f***ing a half dozen times in the last 10 days? Because I can easily do that.

 

[Leonardo87]

This place has been very negative and very doom and gloom this season, and I totally get it with how this team has played this season.

However, I think accusing Kreider of faking an injury so he won’t be traded really crosses the line.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Pionk is LOL worthy in comparison to anyone. He’s a horrific defender who Jets fans want to feed to the mooses at the end of every year.

Miller has been this teams best defender since the new year. Ok he made a bad pass in OT. That doesn’t negate all the good things he’s done for 2+ months.

Do you want me to show you Byram f***ing a half dozen times in the last 10 days? Because I can easily do that.

Fans hate him because he makes braindead plays once in a while and is 6'5 and not Scott Stevens. I kind of get the braindead shit, it's like me with soft goalie goals, it's a pet peeve. But him not being physical and 6'5 being a thing is just basically insecure men who want to live vicariously through tough guys.

 

[TGWL]

NO, I care about a man being thrown under the bus when it isn't justified.

If anyone has legit proof that Kreider was pulling a Zib and not showing up b'c he felt like putting his head up his ass, at our expense, without good reason, then I will be the first to also give him the zib treatment and personally run him out of town.

But that not being the case, the vultures can stand down and go back.

also, post 2476

ps I have been saying for coupla yrs that barring getting lucky, this team would not go all the way, b'c it doesn't have the horses and our strategy has to change.
stop vets over youth, etc

you can admit I'm right on that or suffer in denial

Pulling a Zib? That might be difficult to prove since you can't even find legit proof that Zibanejad is doing what you described as pulling a Zib, but somehow he's getting that treatment?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Package Kreider and Jones for a solid prospect and some picks. Do all you can to sign Gavrikov using the freed up cash from moving Kreider. I'm not numbering lines below. If Perreault shows he's ready in camp, give him every opportunity in the top 6/PP. Parssinen needs to show what he's worth the remainder of this season or he either gets dealt or not qualified.

Panarin - Miller - Perrault
Laff - Trocheck - Zib
Cuylle - Edstrom (think he deserves a shot here when healthy) - Othmann
Berard - Carrick - Rempe
Brodz

Gavrikov - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Soucy - Borgen
Vaak/De Hann

Shesh
Garand

 

[Mugless]

A day of reflection and time to calm down with another go tonight.

Cuylle-Miller-Z is a good line. Unfortunately, the only 1 of 2 and the second is the 4th line. Resign Cuylle 4.5 long term.

If I was Cuylle's agent, I would be asking for the Laf contract.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I definitely don't think Kreider faked an injury.

I do think its possible that management held him out both because he was dealing with something and also as stealth "asset protection." Given the fallout after quite publicly trying to trade Trouba and it falling through, and Kreider having earned a higher level of respect from management due to his tenure, production, and professionalism, it wouldn't shock me if the org tried to do him a solid here and keep as much behind closed doors as possible. Timing is too suspect.

Ultimately, I'm certain the guy is dealing with something, while also battling the aging curve which is undefeated.

 

[JohnC]

I actually find it pretty funny that one down season and all of a sudden Miller’s not worth a hypothetical contract that we gave Brady Skjei 7 years ago. The cap is going up $25 million dollars.

 

[NYR Viper]

The 4th line of Othmann-Brodzinski-Rempe was consistently making things happen all game. Othmann looks good. Not out of place at all. He’s a NHL player at this point.

I’d say similar things about Berard as well.

Vaak consistently impresses me. He’s not the biggest guy but he defends with his legs. He’s normally in a good spot and he can make an outlet pass. I’m not sure what else a team needs from their 3rd pairing honestly.

 

[UnSandvich]

This place has been very negative and very doom and gloom this season, and I totally get it with how this team has played this season.

However, I think accusing Kreider of faking an injury so he won’t be traded really crosses the line.

Do I think he's faking an injury? Not at all. Do I think he told the team "hey it's flaring up right now, put me on IR so i can recuperate", with an eye on making sure he doesn't have to leave the team at the TDL? Yes, yes I do.

I'd be less convinced of that if i hadn't watched him give significantly higher effort at the 4 nations than he has in the rest of the season since the first 10 games or so. Quittin' Chris has been coasting for almost the entire season, presumably because he wants to avoid re-aggravating the injury. If he can't give more than the 20% effort he's showed the entire season, he should be on IR, but his ego wont allow that.

 

[Filip Chytil]