Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[jerseyjinx94]

You guys are missing the forest through the trees. If getting JT Miller for 50% of his value is available now, you do it, and you figure the rest out later. Is it risk free? No, but trading guys like Sykora, Lindgren, Chlemar, even Chytil, is not mortgaging the future.

I've heard it forever that the team needs all guys under 25 years old on lifetime contracts below market value. It's not how reality works. Miller is one of the few bulldogs in the league with skill you get him for the next 4-5 years and pair him with Trocheck there are your 1-2 centers. Figure out what to do with Mika, either he bounces back and pushes Trocheck to 3C or he's forced out of here.

This team has some good pieces in place, and is retooling. It's pretty evident Drury is identifying what he believes is missing and he's got the freedom to implement his plan. So we are going to have to live with his plan as fans. Let's hope he gets it right but frankly, adding guys with jam and skill is exactly what wins in this league. We saw it with Vegas Colorado Florida Tampa, skill + jam. Too many of the Rangers skill guys don't have the jam. Miller does.

 

[mas0764]

3 players, maybe 4 are in decline. Its no wonder these posts are non-existent during a 10 game point streak but are back after 1 tough loss. "If only we kept kakko and buchenvich we'd have a cup by now!" Delusional.

When the four players in decline are four of the main pieces it's a pretty big deal.

The only delusional thing is thinking that this team's best path forward is to add more 32 year olds.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

A player struggling 40 games into a season is labeled "in decline."

A player gets hot for 40 games and the response is "let's see him keep doing it before we decide"

It's very unlikely that Fox, Panarin, Trocheck, Zibanejad, and Kreider are all in decline. Maybe 1 or 2 of them, but very unlikely all of them are.

 

[mas0764]

You guys are missing the forest through the trees. If getting JT Miller for 50% of his value is available now, you do it, and you figure the rest out later. Is it risk free? No, but trading guys like Sykora, Lindgren, Chlemar, even Chytil, is not mortgaging the future.

It makes sense - sometimes - in a vacuum. For this team it only approaches beginning to make sense if the pieces moved are low-upside pieces like Sykora, Lindgren, and Chlemar, and you have faith that you can recoup those pieces by getting Mika out of here soon afterwards.

I've heard it forever that the team needs all guys under 25 years old on lifetime contracts below market value. It's not how reality works.

No, that's not true.

It's hard, but the teams that get lifetime early-20s stars are the teams that win most of the Cups.

Miller is one of the few bulldogs in the league with skill you get him for the next 4-5 years and pair him with Trocheck there are your 1-2 centers. Figure out what to do with Mika, either he bounces back and pushes Trocheck to 3C or he's forced out of here.

I'm not against ever acquiring a 32 year old but there needs to be a long term plan in place to get younger and better.

This team doesn't currently have a Cup winning formula anywhere near in hand.

It's philosophy has always been and continues to be "let's be good enough to make the playoffs and we'll see what happens."

That is beyond proven not to work as far as winning Cups goes.

The biggest issue is that the franchise is ok with that. It's main objective isn't winning Cups, it's main objective is playoff gate revenue. That's what it aims for and that's what it gets. The fans settle.

This team has some good pieces in place, and is retooling. It's pretty evident Drury is identifying what he believes is missing and he's got the freedom to implement his plan. So we are going to have to live with his plan as fans. Let's hope he gets it right but frankly, adding guys with jam and skill is exactly what wins in this league. We saw it with Vegas Colorado Florida Tampa, skill + jam. Too many of the Rangers skill guys don't have the jam. Miller does.

You are right we have to live with it. His plan sucks though.

A player struggling 40 games into a season is labeled "in decline."

A player gets hot for 40 games and the response is "let's see him keep doing it before we decide"

It's very unlikely that Fox, Panarin, Trocheck, Zibanejad, and Kreider are all in decline. Maybe 1 or 2 of them, but very unlikely all of them are.

Fox probably not. It's more likely than not that the rest are all in serious decline. Most players do so by age 31-32, it's just a fact. Too many guys that age means too many diminishing returns on big contracts. It's probably indisputable that we have already seen the best seasons from every single one of these players with the possible (probable) exception of Fox.

You will always be more than a piece or two away if you never try to be a piece or two away in the first place.

But there is a time and place to go for it and it's when your core is good enough and the price to go for it isn't exhorbitant. This isn't the time.

 

[mas0764]

I’d argue Panarin is not a part of the core. He will be gone Summer 2026 at the latest. Think he’s an offseason trade candidate

So then what are we doing?

We want playoff revenue in the meantime? Or do they honestly think this team is winning a Cup?

Talk about delusional.

Rip the bandaid off.

 

[mas0764]

The real thing as @Machinehead says is that it's not only about getting some young star talent that you can build around in here, but they have to change the way they play systemically and organizationally.

There's something rotten in the water. They don't know how to play 5v5 and it goes beyond that they draft all busts somehow.

It's why almost all the free agents they import are worse when they get here. It's why none of their top 10 draft pick forwards turn out. There's no right way to build for this team until they figure out that issue.

The only thing they can reliably do is churn out good goaltenders and it's been that way for a generation.

This iteration is dead. You guys can keep crossing your fingers but you will not ever get any championships out of this group as it's currently constructed.

They need to fix the systemic problems and then do another rebuild. You can call it a retool but unless they get to work soon, Fox and Shesterkin won't see the other side.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The real thing as @Machinehead says is that it's not only about getting some young star talent that you can build around in here, but they have to change the way they play systemically and organizationally.

There's something rotten in the water. They don't know how to play 5v5 and it goes beyond that they draft all busts somehow.

It's why almost all the free agents they import are worse when they get here. It's why none of their top 10 draft pick forwards turn out. There's no right way to build for this team until they figure out that issue.

The only thing they can reliably do is churn out good goaltenders and it's been that way for a generation.

This iteration is dead. You guys can keep crossing your fingers but you will not ever get any championships out of this group as it's currently constructed.

They need to fix the systemic problems and then do another rebuild. You can call it a retool but unless they get to work soon, Fox and Shesterkin won't see the other side.

We all know what that problem/issue is...

Absolutely nothing will change until you cut away the cancer.

 

[will1066]

We all know what that problem/issue is...

Absolutely nothing will change until you cut away the cancer.

On my dinner bill last night, the 20% tip came out to be $20.93.

Poor waitress had to settle for 18% from me.

 

[bhamill]

Not going to happen, but trading Schneider shouldn’t be off the table for another player.

Always depends on the return. Would have to be a BIG win I think.

 

[noncents]

mas cooking up some doom stew this AM

 

[UnparalledPark]

I am pretty despondent about where they are right now. Giving up anything of future value for JT Miller would be insane to me. The only scenario where it makes sense is if you can use Mika to acquire Miller; thereby some of the future value you are getting would be getting out from Mika's god awful contract. Or conversely, if you gave up a package centered around like, Sykora and other non-Perrault prospects and then you had confidence you could recoup those prospects by moving out Mika this summer.

Anyone who thinks this team needs to add Miller so it can have a chance in the playoffs by riding Igor is nuts. There is no way this team is winning four playoff rounds as it is currently constructed, and now the future is so depleted that I see nothing but wasted time and another rebuild on the horizon. This team has almost no long term building blocks at this point. Kakko was wasted and is gone. Chytil hasn't blossomed. Lafreniere is stuck as a 50 point winger. Every other piece is quickly aging or is already too aged.

We completely blew our chance at creating a long term window and we got two Conference Finals appearances out of it. I see no chance that acquiring Miller moves the needle when you look at the opposition, even just in our own conference. And you know Miller isn't gonna come here and be 105 point JT Miller, he will be some lesser version of his recent self just like all the aging vets we acquire.

What a disaster. Drury can't get out of here fast enough.

I think if you look at our conference, all of the good teams from last year are worse, and the cruddy teams are becoming more proficient. Salary Cap leagues tend to behave like that. I agree with a lot that you say. I doubt if Chytil ever becomes a star. I’m 50/50 about trading him Lindgren, and our 1st for J.T.. It would probably leave our window open to be a possible final 4 team again for 2 or 3 years. Having no net front presence (Kreider) is why our PP is in the dumpster, and coincidentally why Fox’s and Panarin’s numbers are down.

I can also see the benefit in saving our draft picks and hope Kreider can get healthy next year (even if you want to trade him) and get someone to motivate Zib to work out in the summer, and gradually fill in with our young guys and free agents. We could remain competitive indefinitely, but I’m not seeing Lord Stanley in Manhattan any time soon either way.

 

[mas0764]

We all know what that problem/issue is...

Absolutely nothing will change until you cut away the cancer.

I think it goes beyond that.

 

[Takeahnase]

No, that's not true.

It's hard, but the teams that get lifetime early-20s stars are the teams that win most of the Cups.

We get what you’re saying but you know as well as I do that these players don’t make it to UFA. Look at the upcoming UFA and tell me anyone on this list that fits your bill of a U-25 star player. Then tell us how we can luck into a #1 pick when it’s one of the lucky years to have that pick where you get an actual star player.

Top 20 2025 NHL Unrestricted Free Agents - The Hockey Writers Editor's Choice Latest News, Analysis & More

The 2025 NHL free-agent class has some star talent at the top, but will they actually make it to free agency on July 1, 2025?

thehockeywriters.com

There is no easy button in this league. There is no store called the U-25 superstar store where you swing by on the way home from Taco Bell and pick up a Celebrini.

Even then, if you luck into a Bedard you can still suck. Detroit has a Lucas Raymond and they suck. It’s easy to say tank and start over but you can also end up in the wilderness for decades ala the Sabres and Red Wings.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I think it goes beyond that.

Because of them it has yes. Other players, and unfortunately our younger players buying into the country club. It's been an issue for a long time. The culture needs to change and it can't with them at the top.

 

[UnparalledPark]

3 players, maybe 4 are in decline. It’s no wonder these posts are non-existent during a 10 game point streak but are back after 1 tough loss. "If only we kept kakko and buchenvich we'd have a cup by now!" Delusional.

Those 3 or 4 players have been the best players on the team. Think about any other team in the league having their 4 best players only performing at 40% to 60% with no one immediately behind them to take up the slack.

 

[Takeahnase]

Ottawa has two stars in early 20’s in Tkachuk (25) and Stutzle (23) and they suck, too. What, 4 points better than us and likely to get as rolled in the playoffs as us if they make it.

 

[mas0764]

Ottawa has two stars in early 20’s in Tkachuk (25) and Stutzle (23) and they suck, too. What, 4 points better than us and likely to get as rolled in the playoffs as us if they make it.

You need more than just the two stars, but you need the two stars.

There is no easy button in this league.

There is no easy button, but there is an approach that you need to have 90% of the time.

We don't have it and don't even try to get it.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Yikes.

 

[SA16]

Yikes.

Ah the classic biased tweet.

Pretty convenient that he neglects to mention in the 8 games between Dec 22 and Jan 7 when he did not play with Mika he had 0 points and was a -3.

 

[leetch99]

Ah the classic biased tweet.

Pretty convenient that he neglects to mention in the 8 games between Dec 22 and Jan 7 when he did not play with Mika he had 0 points and was a -3.

Then we have to factor in how did the team do in that time span ?

 

[UnSandvich]

Fun fact, Lafreniere is actually scoring at a higher (very slightly) rate 5v5 this season than last. His IPP (individual point percentage, the percentage of on-ice GF he has a point on) jumped 13% to 74.29 at 5v5.

A big reason his pace is off from last season at evens has a lot to do with the fact that 6v5 the Rangers are T-Last with just a single goal. Last season the team tied for the league lead with 11, and Lafreniere had 5 points at 6v5

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

On my dinner bill last night, the 20% tip came out to be $20.93.

Poor waitress had to settle for 18% from me.View attachment 967968

Genuinely lol'd at this

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

We all know what that problem/issue is...

Absolutely nothing will change until you cut away the cancer.

Bingo.

 

[McRanger92]

We all know what that problem/issue is...

Absolutely nothing will change until you cut away the cancer.

Careful. You cant mention how badly they've played because their lawyers will come out of the woodwork to tell you its everyone else' fault.

 

[Kocur Dill]

What if the deal is Laf for Miller and a first in 25 or 26 ? Maybe the writers have it wrong ?

I just can't see the Canucks wanting anything to do with Chytil without a damagaed goods clause of sorts in the deal.....and in that case....that does not help the Rangers very much .

Maybe the Rangers are dragging their feet and it is not the Canucks ? Maybe the team is hoping for Laf to find the next level before the deadline and a possible move ?

Dont say all that too loud. Otherwise Lafs back might start to hurt too.