Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

i think drury is trying to wait out VAN and see if they'll do mika for miller

and then we have to get mika to waive

i'd honestly be surprised at this point if drury trades for him otherwise.

and this is the only way the move makes any real sense.

trading one guy whose value is in the toilet for the other. plus a 500K cap savings!

 

[SA16]

as meh as I am about acquiring JT Miller I think honestly for $8 mill and what he can bring it's not a bad deal. In 3 years $8 mill won't be that much for a 2nd liner center as he declines etc etc
The worry is that the decline comes now or next year but acquiring him is basically trying to shake it up and shoot for another shot while Panarin is around

Of course other teams would rather take the guy 26 year old who has also put up a point per game but he's likely going to cost a lot more.

I think a lot of rangers fans still think of JT Miller as the same player he was with the Rangers. As weird as it is, he legitimately did pan out to be a high end 1C though. He'd likely still be a quality 1C for the next few years.

As for Zib and Cuylle...Cuylle was struggling before he was put on that line. He had definitely cooled down and wasn't getting the looks he had been before. Has nothing to do with being moved to that line.

But the problem with zibanejad's line for the past, I dunno, 3 years? is always that "they're doing so well at the xGF game!" but for whatever reason tehy don't actually score enough.
At some point I don't care as much about the xGF if you're not actually scoring and it's your job to score

I'd rather have Miller than Pettersson as Pettersson is going to cost more and there's also a chance he's egregiously overpaid and already has an albatross contract. Miller is also easily movable a few years down the line if need be while Pettersson has a full NMC throughout and a relatively buyout proof contract.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

as meh as I am about acquiring JT Miller I think honestly for $8 mill and what he can bring it's not a bad deal. In 3 years $8 mill won't be that much for a 2nd liner center as he declines etc etc
The worry is that the decline comes now or next year but acquiring him is basically trying to shake it up and shoot for another shot while Panarin is around

Of course other teams would rather take the guy 26 year old who has also put up a point per game but he's likely going to cost a lot more.

I think a lot of rangers fans still think of JT Miller as the same player he was with the Rangers. As weird as it is, he legitimately did pan out to be a high end 1C though. He'd likely still be a quality 1C for the next few years.

As for Zib and Cuylle...Cuylle was struggling before he was put on that line. He had definitely cooled down and wasn't getting the looks he had been before. Has nothing to do with being moved to that line.

But the problem with zibanejad's line for the past, I dunno, 3 years? is always that "they're doing so well at the xGF game!" but for whatever reason tehy don't actually score enough.
At some point I don't care as much about the xGF if you're not actually scoring and it's your job to score

The combos with Zibanejad and Kreider and whoever usually had solid goal shares driven by strong chance suppression (staple of that line with Kakko, their xGF per 60 hovered in the 2.3 range. Thats not really that good.)

The sample size with Cuylle and Smith is not large, but their numbers are driven by strong chance generation (they're hovering a shade under 4.) Cuylle leads the entire team in high danger chances for (individual) 5v5 since the Chicago game. He has 1 goal.

Thats hockey and its a mother f***er sometimes but if you want to be optimistic about this team having another gear, look no further than that line because if that continues, I guarantee that they won't collectively be scoring 2 goals every 10 games.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This is to all the "eye test" posters out there.

Despite all of your posturing and cheast beating about Mika being a detriment to this team and what not. How is it that for the past 10+ games his line leads the team in xGF/60? Mikas line is literally our best line at creating offence.

I would love to see the peanut gallery try to spin this.

64 straight games without a game winning goal for Mika and only 2 over the last 121. With that much ice time/PP/OT usage you could probably get more than that by accident. The last one he had was in a 7-4 blowout a little under a year ago.

He's not finishing enough or when it matters.

There, I spun it.

 

[noncents]

This is to all the "eye test" posters out there.

Despite all of your posturing and cheast beating about Mika being a detriment to this team and what not. How is it that for the past 10+ games his line leads the team in xGF/60? Mikas line is literally our best line at creating offence.

I would love to see the peanut gallery try to spin this.

how about this: SCORE SOME f***ING GOALS

nice lil poison quote in there

 

[kovazub94]

How many goals has it led to?

Don't even try.

I get that we all have our favorites and therefore create biases. Being aware of mine I had always kept my favorite players to higher standards to "compensate" for these biases and not look ridiculous.

This here is a case in point of the opposite. Zibanejad has been underperforming for what now has been over 1.5 seasons. I can (and did) cut him slack for slow starts (for two years) or puck luck, etc. But at this point having this smug condescending attitude in writing responding toward rightful criticism of supposedly 1C center is unwarranted at best - it's been one excuse after another after another.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

64 straight games without a game winning goal for Mika and only 2 over the last 121. With that much ice time/PP/OT usage you could probably get more than that by accident. The last one he had was in a 7-4 blowout a little under a year ago.

He's not finishing enough or when it matters.

There, I spun it.

Game winning goals are an absolute nonsense stat.

 

[RangerBoy]

It's not brain surgery. When you play on a line with 93 you're basically playing 4 vs 5. Cuylle is a terrific player but not superhuman. Not a shocker his stats have turned to shit. 93 is the biggest problem on this team now and future. At least Lindgren will be gone soon and Fox does cover up for a lot of his warts. No one can do well with this version of 93

Mika and Kreider are anchors.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

i think drury is trying to wait out VAN and see if they'll do mika for miller

and then we have to get mika to waive

i'd honestly be surprised at this point if drury trades for him otherwise.

and this is the only way the move makes any real sense.

trading one guy whose value is in the toilet for the other. plus a 500K cap savings!

I seriously doubt Mika does what makes sense to Drury....he has plainly stated he ain't going to Vancouver.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I'd rather have Miller than Pettersson as Pettersson is going to cost more and there's also a chance he's egregiously overpaid and already has an albatross contract. Miller is also easily movable a few years down the line if need be while Pettersson has a full NMC throughout and a relatively buyout proof contract.

I’m wary of EP but he’s a guy who has already scored 100 in this league and he’s the same age as Chytil .

Since we refuse to draft centers our only hope is to get a guy like him for the future

 

[eco's bones]

I'd rather have Miller than Pettersson as Pettersson is going to cost more and there's also a chance he's egregiously overpaid and already has an albatross contract. Miller is also easily movable a few years down the line if need be while Pettersson has a full NMC throughout and a relatively buyout proof contract.

I would rather Miller too. One of the reasons is I'm not sure with Pettersson you'd get to the playoffs and much like with Panarin you would have some fall off because he's pretty much a guy who depends on both his skill and space to do what he does and when teams start taking space away like happens in playoff scenarios particularly as they go from the q-finals to s-finals to conference finals to Stanley Cup round and those things just naturally get tighter and tighter. JT's more in the Barkov/Tkachuk vein and as long as his head is right he is more the type to bull his way into battle areas and get pucks and himself to the net and he's turned into every bit of an offensive threat as Pettersson has become. I also think JT's going to be a motivated player once he moves if only to prove his naysayers wrong and I think there's a real chance he provides the veteran leadership that's been lacking with this team this year.

 

[Mandar]

On my dinner bill last night, the 20% tip came out to be $20.93.

Poor waitress had to settle for 18% from me.View attachment 967968

you could have tipped her 22% for Beuk & Leetch......just sayin....

 

[SA16]

I’m wary of EP but he’s a guy who has already scored 100 in this league and he’s the same age as Chytil .

Since we refuse to draft centers our only hope is to get a guy like him for the future

The problem is he already makes 11.6M and has only one season that he's done that (and two at point per game). If he's more in the 80-90 point range the contract has the potential to be really bad. I'm not trading a ton of assets for the rights to take on that contract. If they retained, sure, but they're not going to retain significant money for 8 years.

 

[DuneGoon84]

How many goals has it led to?

We have a few Mika apologists in here. Why ? God knows.

 

[will1066]

you could have tipped her 22% for Beuk & Leetch......just sayin....

I was not going over 20%. She didn't deserve more lol. She'll be happy with Vaak and Edstrom in the long run, I promise!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would rather Miller too. One of the reasons is I'm not sure with Pettersson you'd get to the playoffs and much like with Panarin you would have some fall off because he's pretty much a guy who depends on both his skill and space to do what he does and when teams start taking space away like happens in playoff scenarios particularly as they go from the q-finals to s-finals to conference finals to Stanley Cup round and those things just naturally get tighter and tighter. JT's more in the Barkov/Tkachuk vein and as long as his head is right he is more the type to bull his way into battle areas and get pucks and himself to the net and he's turned into every bit of an offensive threat as Pettersson has become. I also think JT's going to be a motivated player once he moves if only to prove his naysayers wrong and I think there's a real chance he provides the veteran leadership that's been lacking with this team this year.

I think that you can attribute some (most?) of Pettersson's PS fall off to his knee. His game started to dip the second that it became an issue last year (last Jan) and it carried over. I'm not willing to paint him as Panarin part 2 just yet (whose RS to PS fall off is next level and we've got more than enough data to support this) but it's definitely a pink flag. I think the worry with him is his head space but more so the knee which seems like it's still an issue. He missed time and his speed has completely left him. He was a 93rd percentile top speed guy as recently as a year ago.

He's been sub 50th percentile this year. Thats a massive red flag. You can't chalk his struggles up to JT Miller, thats straight up a physical thing and I'd be worried that he hasn't been able to bounce back from it with time off between seasons and some time off this year. He isn't that old.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Game winning goals are an absolute nonsense stat.

To get them, you have to be scoring on the regular.

Its a stat thats useful when evaluating top of the lineup players who get the most minutes around the league. He's considered a "1C" but isnt performing like one. Other top offensive players around the league are getting their fair share of them or at least occasionally. Some GWG are legit. Most arent a true measure. But to my point you have to be scoring goals to fill this column.

To me there is some value to it especially when it comes to a player like Mika. How many breakaways in OT has he missed or been stoned this season? How many late PPs in tie games has he had chances and failed? (see yesterday) He's the one being sent over the boards for those opportunities.

He isnt a difference maker any more. If you are talking about XGF/60 like its the end all be all (which what I was replying to) than you can bring up other seemingly meaningless stats like GWG that point the other way.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The problem is he already makes 11.6M and has only one season that he's done that (and two at point per game). If he's more in the 80-90 point range the contract has the potential to be really bad. I'm not trading a ton of assets for the rights to take on that contract. If they retained, sure, but they're not going to retain significant money for 8 years.

I think we’d kill for an 80-90 center for the duration . The top centers are all going to be making 14+ now

 

[SnowblindNYR]

To get them, you have to be scoring on the regular.

Its a stat thats useful when evaluating top of the lineup players who get the most minutes around the league. He's considered a "1C" but isnt performing like one. Other top offensive players around the league are getting their fair share of them or at least occasionally. Some GWG are legit. Most arent a true measure. But to my point you have to be scoring goals to fill this column.

To me there is some value to it especially when it comes to a player like Mika. How many breakaways in OT has he missed or been stoned this season? How many late PPs in tie games has he had chances and failed? (see yesterday) He's the one being sent over the boards for those opportunities.

He isnt a difference maker any more. If you are talking about XGF/60 like its the end all be all (which what I was replying to) than you can bring up other seemingly meaningless stats like GWG that point the other way.

Then use goals, no need to use game winning goals.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Then use goals, no need to use game winning goals.

Nah, I think ill continue to use it in this case

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Nah, I think ill continue to use it in this case

Makes sense using the proxy if you can use the actual stat.

 

[mas0764]

Carolina didn't want Miller. They talked to Vancouver about Miller. Carolina wanted EP40 or Rantanen.

Nobody really wants Miller except for Drury and some Rangers fans. Soon to be 32 years old. 5 years remaining. $8M cap hit. Miller sounds like the perfect Ranger. Old and overpriced.

Carolina is smart. If it's parting with major assets it wants a young piece to build around.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Game winning goals are an absolute nonsense stat.

Let’s just go with plain old goals then. 9 goals and it’s almost February.

 

[will1066]

 

[will1066]

Let’s just go with plain old goals then. 9 goals and it’s almost February.

He's just a slow starter