Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XV

[True Blue]

Let’s say he puts up 60 pts at center (if Panarin is healthy and Strome gets to play with him he could easily get more than that). Why on earth would he sign for anything short of 6m?

How much dollar value do you put in getting trust and comfort from a franchise and a coaching staff? Especially after failing with two others, all before the age of 25?

 

[I Eat Crow]

Ritchie.. surely you don't mean Brett Ritchie?

If it's for Nick, Strome would have been on the first flight to LA if that deal was on the table. Strome for Nick Ritchie by itself would be a huge, huge win.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

If it's for Nick, Strome would have been on the first flight to LA if that deal was on the table. Strome for Nick Ritchie by itself would be a huge, huge win.

What’s so great about Nick Ritchie?

 

[RangersFan1994]

If it's for Nick, Strome would have been on the first flight to LA if that deal was on the table. Strome for Nick Ritchie by itself would be a huge, huge win.

you mean flight to Anaheim. he is on the Ducks not the Kings. but yea I would not mind Nic Ritchie type of player. Lawson Crouse +1st for Kreider??

 

[True Blue]

I think 3.5M to 4M is the sweet spot for Strome, and I think he is playing over his head right now.

Based on what?

I can live with 4.5M on a 1 year deal to take him to UFA if we want to avoid the long term commitment, but then we are losing a year of cost control in trade negotiation. The guy isn't a big difference maker.

How do you define "differene maker"? Is that your elite, no doubt about it top liner? If so, there are only x amount of them available in the NHL at any given time.

Just because he has exceeded expectations does not mean we need to keep him around.

Have you seen his point totals and overall play since he got here? This is now about at a year's worth of games. How many other players have done that? Add to that the ability to play both wing and center and not open your mouth. If that is not a player who you keep around, then pray tell who is?

Or let's haircut his current total. Let's say he is a 20-25 goal, 50 point player. Again, that is not a player you need to keep around?

Or let's hair cut it further. He is now a 15 goal, 35 assist player who plays both wing and center. How many playoff teams would sign up to have such a player on their second line?

 

[Edge]

Let’s say he puts up 60 pts at center (if Panarin is healthy and Strome gets to play with him he could easily get more than that). Why on earth would he sign for anything short of 6m?

Statsny just got 6.5m on a 3 year deal and he is old as hell.

I would probably say three things if that happened:

1. He would have proven just about everyone wrong by performing at a higher level for the entire season, as opposed to reverting.

2. His cost would be high and I don't think the Rangers would pay it.

3. The Rangers would probably get an even better return that what we currently consider realistic.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

[

Based on what?

How do you define "differene maker"? Is that your elite, no doubt about it top liner? If so, there are only x amount of them available in the NHL at any given time.

Have you seen his point totals and overall play since he got here? This is now about at a year's worth of games. How many other players have done that? Add to that the ability to play both wing and center and not open your mouth. If that is not a player who you keep around, then pray tell who is?

Or let's haircut his current total. Let's say he is a 20-25 goal, 50 point player. Again, that is not a player you need to keep around?

Or let's hair cut it further. He is now a 15 goal, 35 assist player who plays both wing and center. How many playoff teams would sign up to have such a player on their second line?

- Personal evaluation based on what I have seen from him. ya know, opinions and such

- A difference maker is a player who makes a difference in the overall success of the team. I see Strome as replaceable, and not important to the overall success of this team. For the people who care about semantics, a "postitive difference maker"

- yes I have seen his point totals, yes I have seen him play. The is a serious discrepancy between the two which is why I think he will be overpaid on his next contract.

- plenty of players have had oops 50 pt seasons. David Deharnais? Nick Bonino? (49, I know) Spooner had 41 in 59 in 18-19, and now hes playing in Belarus.

The point is, you have to evaluate the player, not just the point totals. In my opinion, Strome is closer to the guys I just mentioned than say Derrick Brassard

 

[I Eat Crow]

What’s so great about Nick Ritchie?

Nothing really, but he's a 23 year old power forward that's a 20 goal, 40 point player that will make this team more difficult to play against. The Rangers don't really have a player like him in thr organization. LW depth after Panarin looks sad if Kreider is dealt.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Nothing really, but he's a 23 year old power forward that's a 20 goal, 40 point player that will make this team more difficult to play against. The Rangers don't really have a player like him in thr organization. LW depth after Panarin looks sad if Kreider is dealt.

He has 37 goals in 262 career games

He’s never come close to 20 goals in any season

 

[Ola]

I would probably say three things if that happened:

1. He would have proven just about everyone wrong by performing at a higher level for the entire season, as opposed to reverting.

2. His cost would be high and I don't think the Rangers would pay it.

3. The Rangers would probably get an even better return that what we currently consider realistic.

Good points!

From my POV:
1. Strome has what 16 pts in his last 13 games. When Ziba comes back Strome is off the top PP. “Nobody” can score over a PPG without top PP time.

But OTOH who knows when Ziba is back. IF he has a concussion — I know that he thought that the last one he had was really scary. I remember an interview with Swedish TV, he basically said it was something was worse than anyone can endure, that it’s something you can’t expose yourself to.

If Ziba is out for the season, I wouldn’t rule out 70+ pts from Strome.

2. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Strome came in a little north of 60 pts if he plays with Panarin all year. Even if Ziba is back soon. But top PP duty vs just playing PP when Ziba hops off the ice — that got to be a good 15 pts on the year?

3. So with that in mind, I certainly agree with your pts 2-3, ie that he will cost too much and that what he would return in a trade would be too good to turn down. JMHO.

 

[Edge]

Good points!

From my POV:
1. Strome has what 16 pts in his last 13 games. When Ziba comes back Strome is off the top PP. “Nobody” can score over a PPG without top PP time.

But OTOH who knows when Ziba is back. IF he has a concussion — I know that he thought that the last one he had was really scary. I remember an interview with Swedish TV, he basically said it was something was worse than anyone can endure, that it’s something you can’t expose yourself to.

If Ziba is out for the season, I wouldn’t rule out 70+ pts from Strome.

2. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Strome came in a little north of 60 pts if he plays with Panarin all year. Even if Ziba is back soon. But top PP duty vs just playing PP when Ziba hops off the ice — that got to be a good 15 pts on the year?

3. So with that in mind, I certainly agree with your pts 2-3, ie that he will cost too much and that what he would return in a trade would be too good to turn down. JMHO.

And for the record, I am not at all against moving Strome. I'm just in the category of someone who doesn't see it as a forgone conclusion. Similarly, if he hits 50 points I would consider that a tremendous success, especially if it comes playing in a bit of a utility role.

I'm one of those split the difference types. I think it's very possible he is more than the 15 goal/38 player his career average to this point suggests, but I don't think he's the 80+ point player he is currently pacing at. I can see him being a 20/50 player at this stage of his career, and I'm also okay potentially holding onto that if it's at the right price and the right fit.

 

[True Blue]

- A difference maker is a player who makes a difference in the overall success of the team. I see Strome as replaceable, and not important to the overall success of this team. For the people who care about semantics, a "postitive difference maker"

So do second line players become difference makers? Or is that just reserved for a select few?

- yes I have seen his point totals, yes I have seen him play. The is a serious discrepancy between the two which is why I think he will be overpaid on his next contract.

Specifically what in his game have you seen that does not align with the score sheet?

- plenty of players have had oops 50 pt seasons. David Deharnais? Nick Bonino? (49, I know) Spooner had 41 in 59 in 18-19, and now hes playing in Belarus.

Cherry picking a few names to fill your argument does not a case make. And Spooner? Seriously?

The point is, you have to evaluate the player, not just the point totals. In my opinion, Strome is closer to the guys I just mentioned than say Derrick Brassard

Again, based on what in his play?

 

[Edge]

[



- Personal evaluation based on what I have seen from him. ya know, opinions and such

- A difference maker is a player who makes a difference in the overall success of the team. I see Strome as replaceable, and not important to the overall success of this team. For the people who care about semantics, a "postitive difference maker"

- yes I have seen his point totals, yes I have seen him play. The is a serious discrepancy between the two which is why I think he will be overpaid on his next contract.

- plenty of players have had oops 50 pt seasons. David Deharnais? Nick Bonino? (49, I know) Spooner had 41 in 59 in 18-19, and now hes playing in Belarus.

The point is, you have to evaluate the player, not just the point totals. In my opinion, Strome is closer to the guys I just mentioned than say Derrick Brassard

Now in fairness, some of the those names from age 25-29/30 were not necessarily bad, overpriced investments.

It call comes down the price. If we're talking about a 20 percent raise to $4 million, that's not uncomfortable for me.

Though, again, my personal preference would be that Chytil make it clear the second line center spot is his, and we move Strome for a Grabner-like return.

 

[Calad]

That will be his side’s argument. Rangers will paint a complete different picture taking into account his performance before this season and arguing that Strome is benefiting from getting points off Panarin.

His agent will cite comparables, comparables are KING in arbitration.. Hayes got 1 year/ 5.15m(6.5% cap hit) just a season ago from our own GM and never broke 50 points before that, Kadri got 4.1m (5.6% cap hit) in 2015 and topped out at 50 points once, Brock nelson got 4.25m (5.35 cap hit%) and his career high up to that point was 45 points. William Karlsson did actual nothing for 3 seasons in the NHL, then was on fire one year and got 5.25m(6.6% Cap hit). All these contracts were their 3rd contracts, 1 year in length, signed in their mid 20s. It should also be noted that ALL of these players signed 6+ year deals following their 1 year contract, all but kadri getting at least 6 million. If you are curious here is a link to comparable contracts. Comparables Results - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Strome has draft pedigree(former 5th overall pick), and has previously had a 50 point season. If he continues to produce this season, and say scores at least 60 points, getting at least 5 million(6% cap hit) in arbitration would be a slam dunk.

To circle back, this is why if I were his agent, I'd be pushing to sign a long term deal for Strome following this season(assuming he has a good year).

 

[TheBloodyNine]

If I’m NYR I’ll take Kovalchuk off their hands. For a price. A VERY steep price.

 

[bobbop]

I think a lot of you are confusing RFA status with UFA. Strome is an RFA after this season. His options will be a) a one year contract with the Rangers (likely), b) arbitration (possible), c) a multi year contract with the Rangers (unlikely) or d) an offer sheet (highly unlikely)

Said another way...he has very limited leverage. Yes I’ll consider trade offers this year and yes I would consider bringing him back and moving him next year. I want to see a lot more (a whole lot more) before I am giving him any term on his contract.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If I’m NYR I’ll take Kovalchuk off their hands. For a price. A VERY steep price.

I’d do Kovalchuk with some retention for Staal. Then flip him for whatever at the deadline to a contender.

 

[aufheben]

I think a lot of you are confusing RFA status with UFA. Strome is an RFA after this season. His options will be a) a one year contract with the Rangers (likely), b) arbitration (possible), c) a multi year contract with the Rangers (unlikely) or d) an offer sheet (highly unlikely)

Said another way...he has very limited leverage. Yes I’ll consider trade offers this year and yes I would consider bringing him back and moving him next year. I want to see a lot more (a whole lot more) before I am giving him any term on his contract.

Good points.

 

[GAGLine]

I think a lot of you are confusing RFA status with UFA. Strome is an RFA after this season. His options will be a) a one year contract with the Rangers (likely), b) arbitration (possible), c) a multi year contract with the Rangers (unlikely) or d) an offer sheet (highly unlikely)

Said another way...he has very limited leverage. Yes I’ll consider trade offers this year and yes I would consider bringing him back and moving him next year. I want to see a lot more (a whole lot more) before I am giving him any term on his contract.

I think a 2 year deal would be more likely than a 1 year deal. Similar to what we gave Namestnikov and Spooner.

 

[kovazub94]

I think a 2 year deal would be more likely than a 1 year deal. Similar to what we gave Namestnikov and Spooner.

Wouldn’t it be a bit unusual for a guy with only one year left on his RFA to sign a two year deal?

 

[Procrastinator]

I’d do Kovalchuk with some retention for Staal. Then flip him for whatever at the deadline to a contender.

You literally read my mind and took my words and post out of my mouth.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I’d do Kovalchuk with some retention for Staal. Then flip him for whatever at the deadline to a contender.

Now that’s the type of creative thinking we need around here.

 

[GAGLine]

Wouldn’t it be a bit unusual for a guy with only one year left on his RFA to sign a two year deal?

Not at all. That's exactly what both Names and Spooner did. Teams are usually reluctant to give a player a deal that ends at the same time they are first eligible to be UFA. You almost always see the contracts end before or after that mark.

If he continues to be a good player, having him under contract for that extra year will increase his value.

 

[Avery16]

What makes you think it won't continue?

His past record

 

[Avery16]

6 years for Strome is a biiiittttttt much for me. A shorter deal like 3 x $4.5? Sure.

What makes you think that six years from now he won't still be playing like he has been for the last.…14 games?