Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’ve said over and over it’s a small sample size. But it’s frustrating to see, especially in the context of this organization’s inability to draft and develop scoring forwards.

Totally get this but he had similar pockets of play/production here too.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Totally get this but he had similar pockets of play/production here too.

He looks much more comfortable and seems to have chemistry with his linemates

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Totally get this but he had similar pockets of play/production here too.

I don't think he has the skill level to maintain play like this for so long. What I don't understand is that so far the trade has worked for both teams and people are acting like we traded him for Sammy Blais. If both players maintain their play and stay on their team long term then yes I'd say we lost it. But a 2nd pair D-man is still not something to sneeze at. This isn't Hajek/Howeden, this isn't Sammy Blais, IF Borgen continues his play. This is not some horrible f*** up even if Kakko and Borgen maintain their play. Defense has been a lot better with Borgen.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

People are acting like we traded for Sammy Blais. Borgen has been very good for this team and is a big part of its resurgence.

Borgen is the next Brendan Smith

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Borgen is currently more valuable to this team than Kakko was.

I liked Kakko. Do I think we could have gotten a better return? yes.

He wasn’t going to be that guy here for whatever reason.

"For whatever reason" - because, apparently, NYR does not prioritize getting the most out of young, high-end forwards. Which is a problem! I I mean, beyond the Kakko trade. It makes it difficult to win. We must rely on older players from elsewhere for top talent.

The notable thing about this quote from Kakko is the implication that this encouragement didn't happen during his time on NYR.

“Over here, I feel there’s a good chance for me,” Kakko said. “I mean, I can already say, like, confidence is way better than it’s been for a long time. Even the coaches said, like, ‘You’re going to make mistakes sometimes, but keep trying to make plays. If you make the mistake, it’s going to happen. Somebody else is going to help you out. Just try to be yourself and make plays.’ And I feel that’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s all about the confidence.”

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Borgen is the next Brendan Smith

You're basing this off nothing, but ok. He could also be Mikkola who played a solid role for the Stanley Cup champs.

You're just looking at it miserably because you get off on negativity. Borgen's play will fall off but Kakko will be a PPG stud. What a miserable outlook on life. But that's what you get when you look at everything through a negative lense.

 

[Mike in Houston]

“Over here, I feel there’s a good chance for me,” Kakko said. “I mean, I can already say, like, confidence is way better than it’s been for a long time. Even the coaches said, like, ‘You’re going to make mistakes sometimes, but keep trying to make plays. If you make the mistake, it’s going to happen. Somebody else is going to help you out. Just try to be yourself and make plays.’ And I feel that’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s all about the confidence.”

I hope it was Jessica Campbell who said that to him. She's great!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He looks much more comfortable and seems to have chemistry with his linemates

The comfortable thing may be true but he looked like he had great chemistry with his linemates here this year.

Also for everyone flipping out over his production...

He went 11 in 11 and 13 in 16 between 1/16 and 2/17 (or 2/26) in 2023. This was with less ice time 5v5 and almost no PP time.

He has done this before.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

"For whatever reason" - because, apparently, NYR does not prioritize getting the most out of young, high-end forwards. Which is a problem! I I mean, beyond the Kakko trade. It makes it difficult to win. We must rely on older players from elsewhere for top talent.

The notable thing about this quote from Kakko is the implication that this encouragement didn't happen during his time on NYR.

“Over here, I feel there’s a good chance for me,” Kakko said. “I mean, I can already say, like, confidence is way better than it’s been for a long time. Even the coaches said, like, ‘You’re going to make mistakes sometimes, but keep trying to make plays. If you make the mistake, it’s going to happen. Somebody else is going to help you out. Just try to be yourself and make plays.’ And I feel that’s what I’m doing right now, and that’s all about the confidence.”

It's funny how people complain about our young guys not getting room to make mistakes but Lafreniere was making mistakes on defense this year the pitchforks were out.

 

[CommaSynapse]

The last few games have been fool's gold with Shesterkin back. I'm hoping Drury's not silly enough to think this team has a shot with an extra impact player. It would be ignoring a lot of very real issues.

Drury has seen the blueprint from Sather a million times. Should really know better that just jettisoning young talent and picks year after year doesn't work.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I'm just going to say this so it's on the record. Bookmark this one.

Acquiring JT Miller without Zibanejad going the other way, or in the absence of any subsequent move to get rid of Mika Zibanejad, is such a backward ass Dark Ages like, 1998 Rangers move that I'm going to hate regardless of who the Rangers give up to make it happen.

It's a signal that Drury wants to give this core a couple more seasons to make it work, when he should be doing the exact opposite. This core couldn't get it done against either team from Florida. They got their clocks cleaned by Tampa and Florida. They're not good enough. Straight up.

Kreider and Zibanejad are declining players and assets in the trade market and on the ice. This team should be keeping their youth on ELC's, not trading them away. The Sykora's, Berard's, and Edstrom's are those middle to bottom 6 talents needed to keep the team competitive. Someone goes down? Next man up. I want someone hungry like Berard, Othmann, or Sykora taking Kreider's place when his back acts up again. Not Jimmy Vesey or Cody McLeod or the other crappy journey man du jour.

 

[Fitzy]

The last few games have been fool's gold with Shesterkin back. I'm hoping Drury's not silly enough to think this team has a shot with an extra impact player. It would be ignoring a lot of very real issues.

Drury has seen the blueprint from Sather a million times. Should really know better that just jettisoning young talent and picks year after year doesn't work.

I don’t think it matters much at this point. I don’t think Drury will or won’t pull the trigger on things based on on-ice results unless we somehow are out of the playoff hunt by the deadline, which is unlikely.

He’s gonna try to build with the cap space we got trading Trouba

 

[I Eat Crow]

Borgen is the next Brendan Smith

This. This team isn't winning jack this year. Deal him for a 2nd and a 4th at the deadline and try and sign him back July 1 if you must. But they should not self rent him by any means.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think he has the skill level to maintain play like this for so long. What I don't understand is that so far the trade has worked for both teams and people are acting like we traded him for Sammy Blais. If both players maintain their play and stay on their team long term then yes I'd say we lost it. But a 2nd pair D-man is still not something to sneeze at. This isn't Hajek/Howeden, this isn't Sammy Blais, IF Borgen continues his play. This is not some horrible f*** up even if Kakko and Borgen maintain their play. Defense has been a lot better with Borgen.

I don't think Kakko got a fair shake here from the organization and from a good chunk of the fanbase. He was grossly mishandled by Quinn and Laviolette's empty accountability scratch of Kakko was one of the more pathetic attempts at sparking a team that I've ever seen.

I do think it's hilarious how some are ready to crown him as an example of a player who has redeemed himself away from here after a small sample size driven by a ton of variables that have fallen in his favor but are willing to cast Borgen as "the next Brendan Smith" despite the fact that he has also been good (or very good) away from his old team in the exact same sample size.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The last few games have been fool's gold with Shesterkin back. I'm hoping Drury's not silly enough to think this team has a shot with an extra impact player. It would be ignoring a lot of very real issues.

Drury has seen the blueprint from Sather a million times. Should really know better that just jettisoning young talent and picks year after year doesn't work.

Shesterkin hasn't even been playing well with the exception of last game. But fans hate this team so much it's ALWAYS because of Shesterkin. The Rangers' defense has been leaps and bounds better. Only reason the games have been close is the non-existent offense. Shesterkin has been fine but acting like he's been stealing these games because you want to have maximum hate for this team and give them no credit anywhere is f***ing pathetic.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I don't think Kakko got a fair shake here from the organization and from a good chunk of the fanbase. He was grossly mishandled by Quinn and Laviolette's empty accountability scratch of Kakko was one of the more pathetic attempts at sparking a team that I've ever seen.

I do think it's hilarious how some are ready to crown him as an example of a player who has redeemed himself away from here after a small sample size driven by a ton of variables that have fallen in his favor but are willing to cast Borgen as "the next Brendan Smith" despite the fact that he has also been good (or very good) away from his old team in the exact same sample size.

Because Rangers fans are f***ing miserable. If you haven't noticed everything is viewed through a negative lense. We traded away a young stud, but the young guy we got back who was good before the current defensive system in Seattle is going to end up as shit. When Kakko was here he was a bust that sucked. Now Kakko is elsewhere and he's a great player we let get away. Literally every f***ing take with this f***ing fanbase is slanted in the direction of the Rangers being shit. And it's so f***ing negative as if the Rangers are the Jets or something. EVERY f***ing take is biased against the Rangers. Even last year "oh it's only PP and goaltending". This year now, the defense is playing better it's still somehow goaltending. And everything else sucks. f***ing tiresome and people say I'm negative.

 

[noncents]

It's funny how people complain about our young guys not getting room to make mistakes but Lafreniere was making mistakes on defense this year the pitchforks were out.

it doesn't matter what hfboards says, or any fans.

what matters is how the players are treated and communicated to by the organization.

that's what we're talking about here. That's what kakko's quote reveals.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

it doesn't matter what hfboards says, or any fans.

what matters is how the players are treated and communicated to by the organization.

that's what we're talking about here. That's what kakko's quote reveals.

Yes, sure. But I'm talking to the hysterical fans who are like "SEEEEEE". Just give him room to make mistakes. And then when Laf makes mistakes are irrate.

 

[noncents]

Because Rangers fans are f***ing miserable. If you haven't noticed every team is viewed through a negative lense. We traded away a young stud, but the young guy we got back who was good before the current defensive system in Seattle is going to end up as shit. When Kakko was here he was a bust that sucked. Now Kakko is elsewhere and he's a great player we let get away. Literally every f***ing take with this f***ing fanbase is slanted in the direction of the Rangers being shit. And it's so f***ing negative as if the Rangers are the Jets or something. EVERY f***ing take is biased against the Rangers. Even last year "oh it's only PP and goaltending". This year now, the defense is playing better it's still somehow goaltending. And everything else sucks. f***ing tiresome and people say I'm negative.

the fanbase isn't homogenous with regard to opinion. It's not one way or the other. Different groups of people were saying Kakko sucked when he was here than are saying trading him was a mistake.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kakko is playing with 2 guys that play with speed/pace.

He always looked better with Chytil. Cuylle Chytil Kakko line was great. Problem is he's reliant on his Center. With Chytil always getting hurt and him getting limited ice-time, it just wouldn't work long term, catering to the vets. If Chytil were staying healthy and they were getting 17-19 minutes a game, the outcome would probably be similar.

We also have a dog shit offensive system/gameplan. That doesn't help.

It is what it is. It's over. He's traded. What could have been does nothing for us. The thing that needs to change is within the organization. How they develop young players and mindset. I'm also tired of playing 2005 hockey.

 

[mike14]

I'll take that as a 'no' on the moving on from KK chat in here then...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'll take that as a 'no' on the moving on from KK chat in here then...

I appreciated your effort yesterday.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'll take that as a 'no' on the moving on from KK chat in here then...

I really wish we didn't have to hear about it. You'd think this was Saquon Barkley challenging the yards record who the Giants got nothing for. We got a good player and two draft picks for Kakko, let it f***ing go people.

 

[noncents]

Yes, sure. But I'm talking to the hysterical fans who are like "SEEEEEE". Just give him room to make mistakes. And then when Laf makes mistakes are irrate.

you're talking to a fan that exists in your head, a straw fan. we all do it, this is just an example.


it's actually why i make a point to reference specific posters when i comment in rebuttal. i know it comes off combative but it's really out of respect - people have the right to hold their opinions and i respect those that do - as long as they are held accountable for their opinions and rhetoric.

that includes you, who are tough on shesterkin, @Siddi, who stans Zib, @effen, who's a no nonsense guy who eschews excuses made for players and holds them responsible.

i think it's important we have our own views and stand by them. it's what separates this forum from pure groupthink. the hyperbole and inflammatory rhetoric, the slander of players and the doomtelling (guilty), the peacocking when proven right - even if over a short sample - par for the course.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I'm just going to say this so it's on the record. Bookmark this one.

Acquiring JT Miller without Zibanejad going the other way, or in the absence of any subsequent move to get rid of Mika Zibanejad, is such a backward ass Dark Ages like, 1998 Rangers move that I'm going to hate regardless of who the Rangers give up to make it happen.

It's a signal that Drury wants to give this core a couple more seasons to make it work, when he should be doing the exact opposite. This core couldn't get it done against either team from Florida. They got their clocks cleaned by Tampa and Florida. They're not good enough. Straight up.

Kreider and Zibanejad are declining players and assets in the trade market and on the ice. This team should be keeping their youth on ELC's, not trading them away. The Sykora's, Berard's, and Edstrom's are those middle to bottom 6 talents needed to keep the team competitive. Someone goes down? Next man up. I want someone hungry like Berard, Othmann, or Sykora taking Kreider's place when his back acts up again. Not Jimmy Vesey or Cody McLeod or the other crappy journey man du jour.

What if it's Kreider going back the other way? I agree with your points but I think I could live with Kreider going the other way as long as we don't include our top young prospects(or #4).