Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[toNYRico]

Can EP magically bulk up and become like Barkov physically? We desperately need a Barkov-type as our 1C.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

IQ is the equalizer for guys who feasted off of speed against smaller, slower players, absolutely. For guys who didn’t have top foot speed though, getting smothered by Heiskanen or Slavin or a 6’6 Power, etc. is the equalizer. Neither Laf nor Kakko will live up to top 5 pick status, mostly because of mediocre-to-bad skating.

Again, back tracking to my response to DuhmetreE above, my point was that it’s unfortunate he checks very few of the boxes for our largest needs. We’re slow, we’re soft, we’re weak on D and at center. He may not BE soft, but at 5’10 180 he doesn’t move the needle for improving our speed, softness, depth on D or eternal hole at C.

In order to truly be untouchable at his size on the wing he would need Marner, Kaprizov or Rantanen level upside and I do not see that. Pettersson just turned 26 and is having one disappointing season (still on pace for 70) while generally not only being over point per game, but getting annual Selke votes? If you wouldn’t trade a 5’10 wing prospect straight up for him, you must think that prospect has Kaprizov potential.

I’m also not at all obsessed with Pettersson, he’s just the most realistic young center being discussed, similar to how it was with Eichel a few years ago, so I’m using him as the example. Remember when some people said things like “I wouldn’t trade Kakko/Chytil for Jack and his broken neck straight up”? Yeah… same vibes. Pettersson isn’t my favorite young C out there, but I do think 40 games in which he’s still pacing for 70 points has people lumping him in with Zibanejad pretty unfairly. I would definitely be comfortable betting on him bouncing back as soon as he leaves Vancouver. He was rumored to want out even going back a couple of years ago, and I have heard rumblings of impropriety between another Canuck and Pettersson’s SO, which would probably make anyone a little cranky in the work place.

Ehhh not always.

Look at Giroux, dude has feasted in the playoffs and he's small and not fleet of foot either. As prospects? They profile very similarly.

I think the bloom has come off of the Pettersson rose for several reasons. The way he's been portrayed (fair or not) sounds a lot like what we have going on here right now and he did not have a good playoff. I do not want to pay a ton of money+capital to acquire a guy who has the worst qualities of Zibanejad and Panarin, even if he's only 26.

 

[JohnC]

I don’t think it’s a retcon to say Zib wasn’t a t10 center in the NHL during his time here. He was 100% on track to being t10 in the 19-20 season prior to the Covid shutdown, but prior/since? Something like t15-20 and trending exponentially downward since the beginning of 23-24.

 

[LokiDog]

Can EP magically bulk up and become like Barkov physically? We desperately need a Barkov-type as our 1C.

Pettersson is definitely not on that level, but he is both surprisingly strong and physical for a guy that officially weighs 175. He has laid some pretty good hits. What he needs is to be as tenacious as he was in 22-23 and the first half of 23-24 when he was basically a 90-100 point Selke candidate himself. Getting any center who is 26 years old and can put up 90+ points while getting Selke votes is already as close to Barkov as we’re likely to get.

I’m not in the business of spreading rumors but there are rumblings that the girl he is dating may have tested the waters with other Canucks players. If that has any truth to it, it could mess with your happiness at work. Even if it’s not true, Im guessing all the rumors and drama that have swirled around aren’t creating no the greatest environment either. It also was rumored EP didn’t want to stay in Vancouver, but since he was an RFA and not a UFA he took the big extension and that’s why he didn’t ask for trade protection; he has never minded being dealt out of Vancouver.

I hardly think Pettersson is washed up or just his soft gutless player people are making him out to be. He was known to be injured during the poor playoff showing the other year. Prior to that he put up 18 points in 17 playoff games as a 21 year old and has been an excellent, point per game two-way center since he was 23. I’d much rather gamble on him bouncing back to 90 points from the 70 he’s pacing for than Perrault one day putting up 80-90 points himself. I think Pettersson would be the best prime aged center we ever had and be an 85+ point player who throws about 1.25 hits per game and gets Selke attention every year. I do not think this season or his brief, injured playoff disappointment last summer is the norm.

 

[McRanger92]

I mean Jones/Kakko did the complete opposite of what you’re saying. They did everything asked of them for years and took their lumps quietly while the team was in contention. They’re now speaking up because NYR is a lottery team and continues to scratch them for bad players because vibes

Yeah the problem is they just aren’t very good either. Sometimes a player does all the right things and still ends up a bottom pair D or 3rd line forward.

 

[haohmaru]

The thought of JT Miller, of all people, galloping in here to save the season is almost something that you couldn't have made up.

That being said - trading him sucked at the time and, honestly, as much as I loved what Mika was he's clearly not figuring out, or even trying to figure it out, any time soon.

Anything close to 1-1 with a slight add by us is win for the Rangers.

 

[LokiDog]

Ehhh not always.

Look at Giroux, dude has feasted in the playoffs and he's small and not fleet of foot either. As prospects? They profile very similarly.

I think the bloom has come off of the Pettersson rose for several reasons. The way he's been portrayed (fair or not) sounds a lot like what we have going on here right now and he did not have a good playoff. I do not want to pay a ton of money+capital to acquire a guy who has the worst qualities of Zibanejad and Panarin, even if he's only 26.

Giroux is a nice comparison, kudos on that. And of course it’s not an always thing. It’s not as if no one who isn’t a speed demon has ever succeeded. It’s just an already existing weakness with the whole team, which makes it more of a bummer that Perreault isn’t faster than it would if we were generally a fast team.

I can agree with everything you’re saying. With Pettersson, I think he’s getting lumped with guys like Bread and Z very prematurely. He was known to be injured during his poor playoff showing, and it was only one playoffs. Earlier in his career he put up 18 points in 17 games as a 21 year old. Unlike Zib, I don’t think Pettersson is mentally weak, just unhappy and needing a move. Pettersson is still pacing for ~70 points (a hot second half and he’s right back to point per game) while averaging a hit per game and being like a -2. Zib is pacing for like 50 points, is no longer physical and has like the third worst +/- in the league. I genuinely think Pettersson is an opportunity we should be exploring over Miller. I think he just wants away from the drama in Vancouver.

 

[kovazub94]

Folks using allegory or exaggeration to their own detriment (of making a point). If you said that Pierreault might not become a premier elite NHLer - it is reasonable take. But calling him a dime a dozen PROSPECT is ridiculous with all his accolades and accomplishments to date - as a record setter in the development program and then followed by BC career and WJC performance.

The thought of JT Miller, of all people, galloping in here to save the season is almost something that you couldn't have made up.

That being said - trading him sucked at the time and, honestly, as much as I loved what Mika was he's clearly not figuring out, or even trying to figure it out, any time soon.

Anything close to 1-1 with a slight add by us is win for the Rangers.

Yeah it’s not like we are discussing potential multiple trade options. We’re essentially only have one potential trade vs him staying.

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

The thought of JT Miller, of all people, galloping in here to save the season is almost something that you couldn't have made up.

That being said - trading him sucked at the time and, honestly, as much as I loved what Mika was he's clearly not figuring out, or even trying to figure it out, any time soon.

Anything close to 1-1 with a slight add by us is win for the Rangers.

Rangers should NOT be looking for someone to come in and "save the season" (ESPECIALLY JT Miller). That ship has sailed.

 

[LORDE]

If Drury thinks JT Miller will help we're in worse trouble than I had feared (& there was already PLENTY of fear)

 

[MrAlmost]

If you get 1, it's Pettersson. But they have to take Z. But I don't trade Perreault or our 1st. And if that doesn't get it done, too bad. I still think Z can play. Just not here. Too much shit has ruined it.

 

[toNYRico]

I could see Vancouver wanting Trocheck as part of the return for EP.

 

[LokiDog]

Regarding Miller, it’s an interesting situation because of his NMC. If he says he wants to come to NY, it drives the price down for us. If there is a reality where it’s simply a Zib for Miller swap, with some small but not crazy adds for balance, I am all for it in every way. Miller and Zib are the same age, same salary and one of them doesn’t look like he cries watching videos of cute cats every night. If we’re looking at something like Schneider + 1st type of cost than it’s simply a bad idea regardless of how good Miller is right now. The team does not need to be moving some of its few quality young pieces for a 31 year old center right now, nor make a desperation trade to try and save the playoff revenue.

Regarding EP, that’s a scenario where I would be willing to do Zib + Perrault because it would simultaneously rid us of Zib’s albatross contract while adding a player who JUST turned 26 and has genuinely elite upside. Pettersson of 1 year ago is in the discussion of top 10 centers in the league, in that 7-15 range. That I’m willing to actually pay up for, and based on the information I have on the player, I’m willing to take the bet that he returns to form.

 

[haohmaru]

Rangers should NOT be looking for someone to come in and "save the season" (ESPECIALLY JT Miller). That ship has sailed.

If "saving the season" involves getting Mika to waive his full NMC and jettison him and his 5+ years left on his contract for a similar, or better, player whose contract changes to a modified NTC 2 years sooner then you "save the season" as soon as you can every time.

 

[Ruggs225]

Drury and Zib for Miller.

Will even add Phil Housley and lavs as sweeteners.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

If we give up anything of actual value for Miller I will implode.

 

[bl02]

I could see Vancouver wanting Trocheck as part of the return for EP.

If we get two softies like 93 and EP on this team I am really done. I already can't watch this team with one super softie. Only way EP works is if 93 is going the other way and that would take a miracle.
Getting rid of Trocheck would just be the icing on top of this shit cake.

 

[xsniper11x]

Feels like a potential franchise C is pipe dream. So until there’s more smoke connecting EP to NY, I’m more curious as to what other options are available if we’re willing to make Miller, Kreider and others available? Also, not sure what we even do with this C while we have our 3Cs locked up, but I guess Zib could always be moved to W.

Some Cs that get mentioned are Pinto (OTT), Rossi (MIN) and obviously Zegras (although wonder if MacT can be had instead). Any others that could be out there? I would think an asset like Miller easily gets you in the convo with any of these players. Maybe Kreider and some more gets Bourque out of DAL?

 

[I Eat Crow]

If we give up anything of actual value for Miller I will implode.

Zibanejad straight up or I'm not interested. Their headache for our headache.

 

[Killem Dafoe]

Zibanejad straight up or I'm not interested. Their headache for our headache.

I would be 100% down for that.

Just stay away from our picks and prospects. Or guys like Cuylle, Laf and Chytil.

 

[LokiDog]

If "saving the season" involves getting Mika to waive his full NMC and jettison him and his 5+ years left on his contract for a similar, or better, player whose contract changes to a modified NTC 2 years sooner then you "save the season" as soon as you can every time.

Basically this.

If it’s a desperate move to make the playoffs and it involved trading our 1st or best prospect to see another 30+ player, it’s a no. If it’s swapping Zib and some more reasonable adds for a better player of similar age and contract, I’m all for it. I would not expect it to salvage the season or to make the playoffs, but shifting Zib for a guy who is basically Trochek on steroids is a big yes either way.

If we’re talking about a player who just turned 26 and is potentially your elite 1C for another 7 years or so, then I’m ready to discuss more substantial pieces being included.


What I don’t want to see is Schneider, Otthman, 1st as adds just to swap one 31 year old center for a better 31 one year old center while weakening us even further everywhere else.

I would be 100% down for that.

Just stay away from our picks and prospects. Or guys like Cuylle, Laf and Chytil.

Exactly.

 

[bl02]

Feels like a potential franchise C is pipe dream. So until there’s more smoke connecting EP to NY, I’m more curious as to what other options are available if we’re willing to make Miller, Kreider and others available? Also, not sure what we even do with this C while we have our 3Cs locked up, but I guess Zib could always be moved to W.

Some Cs that get mentioned are Pinto (OTT), Rossi (MIN) and obviously Zegras (although wonder if MacT can be had instead). Any others that could be out there? I would think an asset like Miller easily gets you in the convo with any of these players. Maybe Kreider and some more gets Bourque out of DAL?

would you trade GP plus for MacT because thats the only way we are getting him. He would be a tremendous add

 

[LokiDog]

I would be 100% down for that.

Just stay away from our picks and prospects. Or guys like Cuylle, Laf and Chytil.

Exactly

would you trade GP plus for MacT because thats the only way we are getting him. He would be a tremendous add

Yes. In a heart beat.

 

[surlysailor]

I know it's tough to answer without knowing who's available out there, but what type of guys would you have in mind?

I doubt he’ll have the same high end potential as miller esp as rookie but i could see someone like Beaudon fitting the pain in the ass type player who leads by example. No idea if Utah would move him but maybe something like him & lameroux for miller or beaudon for lindgren & small plus if they’re trying to still reach the playoffs this year.

 

[CLW]

Basically this.

If it’s a desperate move to make the playoffs and it involved trading our 1st or best prospect to see another 30+ player, it’s a no. If it’s swapping Zib and some more reasonable adds for a better player of similar age and contract, I’m all for it. I would not expect it to salvage the season or to make the playoffs, but shifting Zib for a guy who is basically Trochek on steroids is a big yes either way.

If we’re talking about a player who just turned 26 and is potentially your elite 1C for another 7 years or so, then I’m ready to discuss more substantial pieces being included.


What I don’t want to see is Schneider, Otthman, 1st as adds just to swap one 31 year old center for a better 31 one year old center while weakening us even further everywhere else.



Exactly.

The last 3 years of Zib's contract (yet another Drury masterpiece) will force the Rangers to either retain or pony up significant sweeteners to get a deal done.