Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[80shockeywasbuns]

Gotta justify those trades! Lol

Nils/Kravtsov had the foresight to call this bullshit out early

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Those teams also have another very important commonality: they're Floridian, ie. No-Tax states. As such they're loaded with incredibly high-value contracts everywhere else on their roster.

Look at the contract Forsling just signed. Florida has Barkov and Tkchuk for less combined than we have Panarin and Zibanejad. Reinhardt just signed for as much as Zibanejad coming off a 57 goal season and a 10 goal playoff.

Kucherov. Point. Hedman. Stamkos signed his extension well under market value.

The No-Tax states are a big discussion point around the league for a reason. They can absorb a bad contract much better than the Rangers can.

I guess you have to include Montreal since you're saying finalists, but still, that team is the definition of an exception. Didn't they proceed to miss the playoffs entirely the very next season?

It’s a fair point. But we also have the new york factor in our favor. Players wanna play here and experience the city. Mess and Gretz have said it publicly themselves.

But yes, NHL should amend the cap structure to account for state income tax

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

yeah i really think Perreault is massively overrated here. it makes sense because he's our only prospect worth a shit (i'm very low on Othmann) but almost every team has a guy like him in their system.

Still waiting to see Perrault in any situation other than the most ideal one possible. He loses Smith and they replace him with Hagens haha. I like Perrault but think he is the kind of player this team completely sucks at putting in a position to succeed

 

[The Crypto Guy]

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Rather be stuck with Zibanejad then.


Jones never had as much value as you're trying to imply. Former 3rd round pick with an ok AHL career.

Maybe not a mountain of value, but it's definitely much less now 3 years later with much more evidence that he's just average. NYR managed to trade Nils Lundkvist for a 1st (Nils was drafted 28th OA, the returning 1st rounder was 29th OA, which was used to bring in Tarasenko+Mikkola). I get Jones is a 3rd rounder, but we're going to end up getting future considerations at this rate as opposed to even swapping him for a 3rd.

 

[Raspewtin]

yeah i really think Perreault is massively overrated here. it makes sense because he's our only prospect worth a shit (i'm very low on Othmann) but almost every team has a guy like him in their system.

this is outright false lol

If you were saying this Othmann I would agree, but Perreault is one of the best prospects in hockey. Top 15.

Every team absolutely does not have a guy like him in the system

who is othmann overrated by?

 

[noncents]

Weeding out the snakes one might say...
Kakko himself was selfish. Even when things were going good he wanted more ice time for himself and would tell anyone about it. That's not a good teammate when you're trying to win a Cup.

I know it happens more often than not in online spaces these days, but how people can just repeat invented falsehoods ad nauseam is just unbelievable. One mention in a finnish article after second (undeserved) postseason scratch, and then the pre-trade comment, and it's "would tell aNyOnE about it." no shame at all. does the belief in the lie come first? or do the repetitions change the reality? we'll never know.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

yeah i really think Perreault is massively overrated here. it makes sense because he's our only prospect worth a shit (i'm very low on Othmann) but almost every team has a guy like him in their system.

Being surrounded by high end teammates helps, but Perreault looks like a play driver. He makes high-danger things happen, and makes them happen pretty often every game. Again, maybe that's facilitated by the fact that his entire team are top prospects and it makes it "easier" for Perreault look good/better, but he's still grabbing those chances and capitalizing himself or making incredibly smart plays/passes to his teammates.

No way to tell how much of it translates to the NHL if at all, but he looks extremely promising all on his own. And the praise is well deserved from what I've seen of him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Perreault is overrated in the eyes of people who need to galaxy brain their own awful trade proposals into making sense.

Perfectly fine to say that you'd part with him for the right player, absolutely f***ing absurd to suggest that every team has a player like him in their system.

 

[The Undertaker]

Miller makes 0 sense from a timeline perspective and is a sad attempt by Drury to salvage the season. It is going to fail miserably and everyone but him can see it coming. Probably another losing trade given his track record. Expecting Perrault+++.

With that said, I would much rather a JTM type locker room cancer than the Zib led coalition of apathetic losers collecting paychecks.

 

[zlev]

Perreault is overrated in the eyes of people who need to galaxy brain their own awful trade proposals into making sense.

Perfectly fine to say that you'd part with him for the right player, absolutely f***ing absurd to suggest that every team has a player like him in their system.

ah yes the guy with the username "GoAwayPanarin" calling other people galaxy brain

 

[kovazub94]

Maybe not a mountain of value, but it's definitely much less now 3 years later with much more evidence that he's just average. NYR managed to trade Nils Lundkvist for a 1st (Nils was drafted 28th OA, the returning 1st rounder was 29th OA, which was used to bring in Tarasenko+Mikkola). I get Jones is a 3rd rounder, but we're going to end up getting future considerations at this rate as opposed to even swapping him for a 3rd.

Now there's a bit of contradiction - in addition to being 1st rounder rather than 3rd - by the time of the trade Lundkvist already had a significant number of NHL games that creates more trade value because this is a positive for a young player to at least indicate an NHL floor). Moving Jones before this year when he was only an AHLer would further reduce his trade value, not increase it as you are trying to argue.

 

[LokiDog]

Not every team has a prospect like Perrault, but he is definitely overrated here, because we are so starved to hit on a forward prospect. Some posters act like he’s going to be a Jack Hughes type by the time he’s 23-24. He’s basically Jeff Skinner. He hasn’t really had to drive his own line as he’s usually in very ideal situations. His skating is not elite. His size is less than ideal. He’s a valuable prospect. To us, he’s EXTRA valuable because, by the time we’re in D+1/2 with a forward we drafted, they have almost always decreased in value rather than increased. Unfortunately, he’s also the exact type of prospect we need least. He’s a winger. He’s not fast. He’s not physical or known for his tremendous compete. I would much rather have the 20 year old version of Elias Lindholm or someone like that (trying to think of good, but not elite level players) than the 20 year old version of Skinner. As much as Perreault is our best forward prospect by a long shot, a smallish, slowish, finesse winger is hardly a savior for this team. He’s absolutely available in the right trade.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Miller makes 0 sense from a timeline perspective and is a sad attempt by Drury to salvage the season. It is going to fail miserably and everyone but him can see it coming. Probably another losing trade given his track record. Expecting Perrault+++.

With that said, I would much rather a JTM type locker room cancer than the Zib led coalition of apathetic losers collecting paychecks.

Stop.

Not every team has a prospect like Perrault, but he is definitely overrated here, because we are so starved to hit on a forward prospect. Some posters act like he’s going to be a Jack Hughes type by the time he’s 23-24. He’s basically Jeff Skinner. He hasn’t really had to drive his own line as he’s usually in very ideal situations. His skating is not elite. His size is less than ideal. He’s a valuable prospect. To us, he’s EXTRA valuable because, by the time we’re in D+1/2 with a forward we drafted, they have almost always decreased in value rather than increased. Unfortunately, he’s also the exact type of prospect we need least. He’s a winger. He’s not fast. He’s not physical or known for his tremendous compete. I would much rather have the 20 year old version of Elias Lindholm or someone like that (trying to think of good, but not elite level players) than the 20 year old version of Skinner. As much as Perreault is our best forward prospect by a long shot, a smallish, slowish, finesse winger is hardly a savior for this team. He’s absolutely available in the right trade.

Loki you're my guy, but you're so off base here that I'd think this was written by Jovo.

 

[Gardner McKay]

yeah i really think Perreault is massively overrated here. it makes sense because he's our only prospect worth a shit (i'm very low on Othmann) but almost every team has a guy like him in their system.

Uhh. As a moderator, I'm doing my best to come up with a polite way to describe how wrong this is... and I don't have one.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Where the heck is the "Perreault is overrated" garbage coming from all of a sudden? Guy is a top 10-15 prospect in the NHL. Nobody is saying he is going to be Jack Hughes but he has star potential all over him. Guess we aren't allowed to be excited for that or it's overrating him.

 

[LokiDog]

Stop.



Loki you're my guy, but you're so off base here that I'd think this was written by Jovo.

Fair enough but on which part? How would you project a comparable (in their prime, not their current state - wasn’t talking about 2024 Skinner)? He isn’t big nor physical. He isn’t fast. He may not be slow, but he is not a world beater at all and this team needs large helpings of speed. His offensive instincts are tremendous, sure, and we need that too. But size and speed often both become great equalizers at the NHL level for guys who dominated against younger competition. We can debate whether he’s been the line driver or not and whether he has benefited from his line mate situation or they have benefited from him, and I’m happy to be flexible. But if this team had developed Hughes and Stutzle instead of Laf and Kakko, I genuinely do not believe people would be as high on Perreault. And even then, I acknowledged he is a great prospect. He is simply a type that we need less than a 6’1 center or a fast, tenacious top six winger.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Not every team has a prospect like Perrault, but he is definitely overrated here, because we are so starved to hit on a forward prospect. Some posters act like he’s going to be a Jack Hughes type by the time he’s 23-24. He’s basically Jeff Skinner. He hasn’t really had to drive his own line as he’s usually in very ideal situations. His skating is not elite. His size is less than ideal. He’s a valuable prospect. To us, he’s EXTRA valuable because, by the time we’re in D+1/2 with a forward we drafted, they have almost always decreased in value rather than increased. Unfortunately, he’s also the exact type of prospect we need least. He’s a winger. He’s not fast. He’s not physical or known for his tremendous compete. I would much rather have the 20 year old version of Elias Lindholm or someone like that (trying to think of good, but not elite level players) than the 20 year old version of Skinner. As much as Perreault is our best forward prospect by a long shot, a smallish, slowish, finesse winger is hardly a savior for this team. He’s absolutely available in the right trade.

As are 99.99999% of prospects.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Uhh. As a moderator, I'm doing my best to come up with a polite way to describe how wrong this is... and I don't have one.

It's preemptive copium in the event he refuses to sign here seeing how much of a tire fire this organization is at the moment.

 

[zlev]

Uhh. As a moderator, I'm doing my best to come up with a polite way to describe how wrong this is... and I don't have one.

it's fine. every fanbase overvalues their own players. there are even still people here who think Zibanejad has some trade value.

 

[LokiDog]

As are 99.99999% of prospects.

True, but not in the eyes of many HF people. Yet, they should be. I guess that’s my point though. He is not a franchise player that you absolutely do not trade. It’s almost like the Fox situation. If he had blazing speed or he was as 6’2 he may be THE savior we’ve been waiting for. The unfortunate fact that our best prospect - still one of the league’s best as well - happens to not be an elite skater or a bigger more physical type is just our luck. On a team stacked with guys who have a lot of size and grit he becomes an ideal skilled catalyst. On a team whose problem is skating and not being willing to battle physically, he becomes Panarin lite with no fast or physical players creating any space or chaos for him to take advantage of.

 

[duhmetreE]

I do not see Gabe over rated. I just don't think he's what this team needs at the moment. Hopefully we look much different once he puts on the Rangers sweater.

He'd be on an ELC, so I really do not care. Is he replacing Panarin? Is he going to be more Kucherov or Panarin in big games? That's the main difference.

btw, if a deal comes up for a long term '1C' or top pairing defenseman, I have no problem with using him as a trade piece

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

Uhh. As a moderator, I'm doing my best to come up with a polite way to describe how wrong this is... and I don't have one.

I'll volunteer -- just pass those choice words on to me and I'll gladly spew them out -- I'm in the mood to verbally berate someone today anyway.

 

[Filip Chytil]

I have some pages to read up on, but this team is a total dumpster fire. Why would we even consider dealing Perreault? Maybe if someone offered me an elite LHD prospect of similar caliber. Perreault isn't McDavid by any stretch of the imagination, but outside of dealing him for a C or LHD prospect of similar value, what other player would we even target?

And anyway, I think we'd only deal him if it became obvious he isn't signing here. Other than that, he sure as hell isn't being shipped out in a package for a Pettersson or whoever else out there is available. Maybe if Drury has a "win now or else" mandate from Dolan. Other than that, if we weren't willing to deal him last year to get Guentzel or some other top piece when we were President's Trophy winners and legit contenders, why would we deal him now when we're clearly not contenders and just about the worst team in hockey the last 2 months?

 

[bhamill]

Stop.



Loki you're my guy, but you're so off base here that I'd think this was written by Jovo.

yup. Perrault has BEEN the line driver at BC for the last two years... whoever they play with him, he scores and they score. Hagens didn't start the year with GP and Gabe was FINE. Leonard was briefly moved to a different line, Gabe kept his pace, Leonard did not.

Aside from his hands and IQ, Perrault has a TON of compete, a great motor, and actually plays defense. He also goes WHERE EVER he has to on the ice. Doesn't shy from contact at all and didn't he get suspended last year for a chippy play? Gabe is an above average skater, not a speed merchant, but I've seen him pull away from defenders trying to catch him, and his agility and edges are really good. He's not big, but he's not small either. An NHL forward on average is 6ft-6ft1in and about 200 pounds. At 19 this kid is about 180 pounds and just under 6ft. I'm not worried about him being too small.

Now anyone proclaiming him to be a sure fire superstar is overreaching, but most people see him as a really good 1st line player with potential to be even more. And I do not see how that is overrating him in the least.

And NO, every team does NOT have a prospect just like GP, that's just nuts.