Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XV (Light em up!)

[bleedblue94]

I really don't understand this narrative. It's the classic HF. The team has had a lot of issues but let's blame the best player(s) who haven't been the issue. That and the usual bias against older players, non-physical players, and slower skaters and Fox fits two of those categories.

A big part of the disconnect is that when things are good here the "best player(s)" get the credit (except Igor bc he's a goalie) and when things aren't good here it's never the fault of the best players (except Igor bc he's a goalie).

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

I believe KK even said things were in the works before he spoke out. Could it have played a role? Possibly but I don't think that is why KK was traded.

I think he was always "in the mix" when trade talks occurred.....the scratch and subsequent actions accelerated the process.

 

[NickyFotiu]

His defense is excellent, top of the league quality. He's physical. He kills penalties, hits (yes, he does initiate lol maybe not as much as Luke Schenn but he hits), blocks shots.

He's not fast. That's not changing.

He has 1 goal. If he had 4 we'd still be well out of the playoffs and his season would be how different? Seriously.

We don't have to go back and forth. Fox is playing great, even though he only has one goal. I don't know why that's so crazy to be realiWhat percentage of Dmen in the NHL do you think hit less per minute played? 20%? 40%? 60%? Doesn't he average less than 1 hit evey 2 games for his career?

His defense is excellent, top of the league quality. He's physical. He kills penalties, hits (yes, he does initiate lol maybe not as much as Luke Schenn but he hits), blocks shots.



What percentage of Dmen in the NHL do you think hit less per minute played? 20%? 40%? 60%? Doesn't he average less than 1 hit evey 2 games for his career?

His defense is excellent, top of the league quality. He's physical. He kills penalties, hits (yes, he does initiate lol maybe not as much as Luke Schenn but he hits), blocks shots.

Not trying to bash Fox but soley for discussion sake what percentage of Dmen in the NHL do you think hit less per minute played? 10%? 30%? 50%? 70%? Doesn't he average less than 1 hit every 2 games for his career?

 

[UnSandvich]

I know the history of the award. If you also post the historical award and the history of the top 3 or so vote getters annually you see the same names pop up continuously. In foxes career his Norris vote finishes have been meh other than his 1st place and his 2nd place. Do you see him anywhere in the conversation this year? Was he in it last year? Is he this year? Kid is in his prime years and his compete game is not as good as it was. People are arguing this with me and other people that are in the locker room everyday and see these guys everyday are starting to say the same thing and question his lack of physical training and regression, so this isn't something I am just making up from nowhere.

Do you mind posting the source of the numbers you shared for fox since lindgren got back bc I have seen other numbers shared and everyone seems to have a different set. I'm wondering how much is 5v5 versus all ice time. Obviously if it includes special teams it will greatly impact the numbers. Are your numbers all 5v5?

All my numbers are 5v5. I had to use the line tool tab on NST to get the date range.

Also yeah Fox isn't in the conversation this year, the team and partner he's with are dogshit. If the team was playing the way they looked before Lindgren came back, he's probably higher up. But when the team as a whole is playing terribly, obviously Fox's production will be lower. (4th and 5th place Norris finishes are also, y'know, really good)

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Not trying to bash Fox but soley for discussion sake what percentage of Dmen in the NHL do you think hit less per minute played? 10%? 30%? 50%? 70%? Doesn't he average less than 1 hit every 2 games for his career?

That's like saying, not to bash on Rempe but how many hat trick games has he had in the nhl? Fox isn't a hitting defenseman, he's a cerebral, puck moving dman that can hurt teams in other ways. That's why you pair him with a more physical stay at home dman, but since Lindgren has given his soul and body to this team and it's showing, he needs someone else. I hate that we have to move on from Lindgren but we do, I felt the same as when Prust left and that was the right decision too

 

[UnSandvich]

Not trying to bash Fox but soley for discussion sake what percentage of Dmen in the NHL do you think hit less per minute played? 10%? 30%? 50%? 70%? Doesn't he average less than 1 hit every 2 games for his career?

At 5v5, Fox ranks 215 out of 276 Dmen in Hits/60 with 1.79. Notable Dmen tied or below Fox's rate:
- Hedman 1.79
- Sergachev 1.52
- Brodin 1.39
- Pesce 1.36
- Hutson 1.36
- Toews 1.28
- Lindholm 1.26
- Harley 1.22
- Rielly 1.19
- Andersson 1.15
- Karlsson .98
- Provorov .92
- Faber .8
- McDonagh .78
- Heiskanen .76
- Werenski .67
- Slavin .52
- Q Hughes .45
- Theodore .1

 

[NickyFotiu]

That's like saying, not to bash on Rempe but how many hat trick games has he had in the nhl? Fox isn't a hitting defenseman, he's a cerebral, puck moving dman that can hurt teams in other ways. That's why you pair him with a more physical stay at home dman, but since Lindgren has given his soul and body to this team and it's showing, he needs someone else. I hate that we have to move on from Lindgren but we do, I felt the same as when Prust left and that was the right decision too

You just made my point. I wouldn't ever say Rempe is a guy that scores hat tricks. You just said Fox is not a hitting defensemen. I agree and that is what is being disagreed with in the prior posts.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That's like saying, not to bash on Rempe but how many hat trick games has he had in the nhl? Fox isn't a hitting defenseman, he's a cerebral, puck moving dman that can hurt teams in other ways. That's why you pair him with a more physical stay at home dman, but since Lindgren has given his soul and body to this team and it's showing, he needs someone else.

Fox IS the stay at home defenseman, actually. He needs to be paired with a bigger guy who can skate the puck out of trouble & clear the crease.

KAM, theoretically should be the perfect guy for him. I know many are super down on him, & I wish he was a bit more physical, but I haven't given up hope that he figures it out in the right system under a better coaching staff. Many of our younger players, especially on D, have stagnated or regressed with Lavi & Housley running the show. I don't want to make an impulsive move involving KAM like we just did with Kakko.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

A big part of the disconnect is that when things are good here the "best player(s)" get the credit (except Igor bc he's a goalie) and when things aren't good here it's never the fault of the best players (except Igor bc he's a goalie).

The real disconnect is that a lot of people on here really just don’t believe how bad the NYR weak links are so they just think the Lindgrens and Boninos are getting unfairly scapegoated. I wish NYR could build their team so that the strong links would be the difference but they’re perpetually doing the AHLer in the top 4 challenge

 

[NickyFotiu]

At 5v5, Fox ranks 215 out of 276 Dmen in Hits/60 with 1.79. Notable Dmen tied or below Fox's rate:
- Hedman 1.79
- Sergachev 1.52
- Brodin 1.39
- Pesce 1.36
- Hutson 1.36
- Toews 1.28
- Lindholm 1.26
- Harley 1.22
- Rielly 1.19
- Andersson 1.15
- Karlsson .98
- Provorov .92
- Faber .8
- McDonagh .78
- Heiskanen .76
- Werenski .67
- Slavin .52
- Q Hughes .45
- Theodore .1

So around 77% of Dmen hit more according to your stat. Is that correct?

 

[TheDirtyH]

Not trying to bash Fox but soley for discussion sake what percentage of Dmen in the NHL do you think hit less per minute played? 10%? 30%? 50%? 70%? Doesn't he average less than 1 hit every 2 games for his career?

Out of defensemen who've played 200 mins 5v5 this season, Adam Fox ranks 163rd out of 212. So that would be 25% of those defensemen hit less frequently than Fox.

Some notable names in that lower 25% for discussions sake:

Brent Burns (210th)
Quinn Hughes (208th)
Jacob Slavin (207th)
Brock Faber (206th)
Zach Werenski (204th)
Miro Heiskenen (203rd)
Ryan McDonagh (202nd)
Chris Tanev (200th)
Vlad Gavrikov (191st)
Hampus Lindholm (180th)
Brett Peace (176th)
Jonas Brodin (174th)
Victor Hedman (165th)

 

[Kravtsov420]

Anyone think there’s a chance laviolette gets fired out of the break? The last game was rock bottom imo for that locker room. There either has got to be a trade or that coming

 

[TheDirtyH]

So around 77% of Dmen hit more according to your stat. Is that correct?

You can't hit when your team has the puck, and when fox is playing his team has the puck a lot more than most defensemen. Would you say Chris Tanev or Ryan McDonagh aren't physical?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Out of defensemen who've played 200 mins 5v5 this season, Adam Fox ranks 163rd out of 212. So that would be 25% of those defensemen hit less frequently than Fox.

Some notable names in that lower 25% for discussions sake:

Brent Burns (210th)
Quinn Hughes (208th)
Jacob Slavin (207th)
Brock Faber (206th)
Zach Werenski (204th)
Miro Heiskenen (203rd)
Ryan McDonagh (202nd)
Chris Tanev (200th)
Vlad Gavrikov (191st)
Hampus Lindholm (180th)
Brett Peace (176th)
Jonas Brodin (174th)
Victor Hedman (165th)

So you would consider a Dman in the lower 25% of the league in hits to be "physical"?

 

[TheDirtyH]

So you would consider a Dman in the lower 25% of the league in hits to be "physical"?

I consider McDonagh and Tanev not only to be physical, but actually among the most exemplary players that the word could apply to in the modern era.

And they're in the lower 5 and 10% in hits, respectively

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Not going to lie, Hagens/Perreault together could be a thing of beauty.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You can't hit when your team has the puck, and when fox is playing his team has the puck a lot more than most defensemen. Would you say Chris Tanev or Ryan McDonagh aren't physical?

Okay that explains it then.

Really want to end this because I don't want to be critical of Fox. I like and suport Fox. I just want him and most our players to be tougher to play against.

Good discussion

 

[NickyFotiu]

I consider McDonagh and Tanev not only to be physical, but actually among the most exemplary players that the word could apply to in the modern era.

And they're in the lower 5 and 10% in hits, respectively

MCD has averaged over 90 hits a season for his career. Do you think this season at age 35 is really representative of how he played previously?

 

[egelband]

Reading between the tea leaves, dumping Goody and attempting the same with Trouba, Drury must have had a side deal lined up or they were trageting a big fish in FA.

Goody made/makes his money in the playoffs. He wasnt the problem outside of needing his salary off the books. He was a high motor player, just past his prime unfortunatly.

Yep. Goodrow took a lot of flak here but in always appreciated him. If he were get ting $2.5m per year, he’d be around forever.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

KK forced his own way out with his play last year. I was shocked when he made it through draft day without being shipped out for a second rounder.

I expect Drury going bargain bin hunting for DMen this upcoming summer. Fabbro, Savard, Perbix, Grzelcyk, you can expect two of those types to be signed. I wonder if Burns for one year at a very high salary.

Fox will be fine, he's going to have a good summer of training. I think the same goes for Miller, Trochek, Panarin, and maybe even Mika as well. A lot of these guys had the equivalent of "breakup depression" after the Panthers series and clearly it impacted their summer plus all the Goodrow and Trouba stuff.

Someone mentioned Bischell in a Kreider trade with Dallas. If you can get that, a first either this season or next, and another pick, take that and call it a day. Fair value: three playoff runs out of Kreider.

If Garand has two more dominant weekends, he becomes the backup and approach Quick about a move to Carolina, Utah, Ottawa, any team who needs a little veteran love in goal.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Not going to lie, Hagens/Perreault together could be a thing of beauty.

Are NYR really in a position to potentially draft Hagens? I thought he was supposed to go 1st OA.

 

[NickyFotiu]

KK forced his own way out with his play last year. I was shocked when he made it through draft day without being shipped out for a second rounder.

I expect Drury going bargain bin hunting for DMen this upcoming summer. Fabbro, Savard, Perbix, Grzelcyk, you can expect two of those types to be signed. I wonder if Burns for one year at a very high salary.

Burns played in a old guys pick up game at my previous local rink a few years ago. Seemed like a great guy!

 

[TheDirtyH]

MCD has averaged over 90 hits a season for his career. Do you think this season at age 35 is really representative of how he played previously?

He's in the bottom 25% over the last four years.

Tanev is lower.

Fox is basically dead even with Brett Peace over the last four years.

Are McDonagh, Tanev, and Pesce not physical defensemen?

 

[NickyFotiu]

He's in the bottom 25% over the last four years.

Tanev is lower.

Fox is basically dead even with Brett Peace over the last four years.

Are McDonagh, Tanev, and Pesce not physical defensemen?

You win. Adam Fox is a physical hitting defenseman. Good?

 

[TheDirtyH]

You win. Adam Fox is a physical hitting defenseman. Good?

Wasn't really my point was it? But thanks for the win I guess.