Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVII

[Avery16]

I’m not saying absolutely trade him, but I don’t think he’s some only available for a severe overpayment type piece. And sign three bodies if he’s moved? What?

Who is playing in Hartford and Greenville? Who is a callup if Hank or Shesty are injured? Huska??

 

[Mac n Gs]

OH, I’m sorry. An AHL rookie with bad numbers in nine starts is a GREAT portend and proof of “great organizational depth”.

The lack of professionals doesn't take away from the depth in the system. This is a really weird argument to be making, especially since most would agree that the Rangers have a plethora of good goalie prospects.

 

[Trxjw]

OH, I’m sorry. An AHL rookie with bad numbers in nine starts is a GREAT portend and proof of “great organizational depth”.

I'm just pointing out that the AHL numbers need to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

The depth isn't earth shattering, but it's quite strong. Huska and Wall are very underrated goalie prospects.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Who is playing in Hartford and Greenville? Who is a callup if Hank or Shesty are injured? Huska??

You can sign one tweener for Hartford/NHL, and you also don’t need the NHL club to sign guys to fill out Greenville

 

[Avery16]

I'm just pointing out that the AHL numbers need to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

It’s funny, I happened to have prefaced my comment with that exact sentiment...

 

[Trxjw]

It’s funny, I happened to have prefaced my comment with that exact sentiment...

Not the one I responded to, but fair enough.

 

[Avery16]

You can sign one tweener for Hartford/NHL, and you also don’t need the NHL club to sign guys to fill out Greenville

“We” to me includes AHL contracts. We’re talking about organizational depth, not depth on the big club.

 

[Avery16]

I'm just pointing out that the AHL numbers need to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

The depth isn't earth shattering, but it's quite strong. Huska and Wall are very underrated goalie prospects.

Neither are ready to take backup games next season. I’d say further that neither is ready to start in Hartford.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Then, there's the fact that the organization has had TREMENDOUS success finding/rehabilitating goalies from out of nowhere. It's amazing, Halverson and Nell bust, and it's like the incredible string of Talbot, Raanta, Skapski (pre-injury), Georgiev never happened.

I have great confidence that between Huska, Wall, and Lindbom at least one of them – in addition to Shesterkin – can be a solid backup, if not a starter. I also have great confidence that the team can find other solid options that they can develop into backups, if not starters. And I also, also have confidence that there are any number of teams looking to dump "eh" veterans with bloated contracts that the Rangers could take with a sweetener/for nothing if they need a stopgap.

By no means am I suggesting that we should be looking to pawn Georgiev off for whatever we can get, but he's the last prospect we should be hugging if he makes the difference in a big deal.

(Of course, all this is also, also, also why they need to never again f***ing draft a goalie with a pick in the first three rounds, but that's another conversation...)

 

[Avery16]

Then, there's the fact that the organization has had TREMENDOUS success finding/rehabilitating goalies from out of nowhere. It's amazing, Halverson and Nell bust, and it's like the incredible string of Talbot, Raanta, Skapski (pre-injury), Georgiev never happened.

I have great confidence that between Huska, Wall, and Lindbom at least one of them – in addition to Shesterkin – can be a solid backup, if not a starter. I also have great confidence that the team can find other solid options that they can develop into backups, if not starters. And I also, also have confidence that there are any number of teams looking to dump "eh" veterans with bloated contracts that the Rangers could take with a sweetener/for nothing if they need a stopgap.

By no means am I suggesting that we should be looking to pawn Georgiev off for whatever we can get, but he's the last prospect we should be hugging if he makes the difference in a big deal.

(Of course, all this is also, also, also why they need to never again ****ing draft a goalie with a pick in the first three rounds, but that's another conversation...)

Skapski was a dud too. Pavelec and Biron placeholders at best, on their last legs. Mazanec. Tokarski. Jeff Malcolm. Magnus Hellberg. Yes- we have found some gems. Let’s not pretend they all are.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Skapski was a dud too. Pavelec and Biron placeholders at best, on their last legs. Mazanec. Tokarski. Jeff Malcolm. Magnus Hellberg. Yes- we have found some gems. Let’s not pretend they all are.

Missiaen, Johnson, Zaba

 

[Avery16]

Missiaen, Johnson, Zaba

True, but I want to keep this to Gorton and Co.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

True, but I want to keep this to Gorton and Co.

Malcolm joined the organization before Gorton was in charge so I didn't think it was limited to that

 

[Avery16]

Malcolm joined the organization before Gorton was in charge so I didn't think it was limited to that

But Gorton was here, right?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

But Gorton was here, right?

Well, when people talk about the Gorton era, to me that's anything after July 1st, 2015

 

[Mikos87]

I don't want to trade Georgiev until we're sure what we have in Shesty.

I think Shesty is the real deal. I get that KHL goaltending stats are inflated, but by all accounts, Shesty is going to play. There will be adjustment period, but I don’t expect that to be long.

It’s jumping the gun a little because we aren’t sure about Shestyorkin yet, but

(A) I feel good about him,
(B) Lundqvist isn’t going anywhere, and
(C) We have great goaltender depth in the system.

So I say go for it.

I tend to agree. I’m not selling Geo short, he’s been the youngest goalie in the league the last two years, and posted a league average save percentage on some horrible defensive teams.

Things like that get noticed. I know he’s definitely caught people’s attention around the league.

 

[mas0764]

Skapski was a dud too. Pavelec and Biron placeholders at best, on their last legs. Mazanec. Tokarski. Jeff Malcolm. Magnus Hellberg. Yes- we have found some gems. Let’s not pretend they all are.

No one said they all are.

My point, that you questioned, is that we have good goaltending prospect depth. I’m ok with trading Georgiev because while those prospects continue to marinate, Lundqvist isn’t going anywhere, and we have the track record to suggest we can probably drum up another Talbot/Raanta/Georgiev level player from at least one of them.

As someone else said, I’m not looking to pawn him for peanuts but I’m also not gonna think twice about dealing him. He’s not likely to ever be our number one starter and we have other prospects in the pipeline who can likely equal him someday.

 

[Avery16]

No one said they all are.

My point, that you questioned, is that we have good goaltending prospect depth. I’m ok with trading Georgiev because while those prospects continue to marinate, Lundqvist isn’t going anywhere, and we have the track record to suggest we can probably drum up another Talbot/Raanta/Georgiev level player from at least one of them.

As someone else said, I’m not looking to pawn him for peanuts but I’m also not gonna think twice about dealing him. He’s not likely to ever be our number one starter and we have other prospects in the pipeline who can likely equal him someday.

Three things: I wouldn’t count on us pulling a Talbot or a Raanta out of thin air this season. Just because we have in the past doesn’t mean we can at the drop of a hat. Two- don’t be shocked when Georgiev starts for a team some season. Another, if not ours. Three- no one in our system has shown the promise that Georgiev has. Maybe Shesty is better. But outside of him- Huska, Wall, Lindbom, nothing. Not yet. And that’s it.

 

[Savant]

If the Rangers do not have good goaltending depth, who does?

 

[RangerBoy]

Trouba may or may not sign a long term extension this summer with the acquiring team. If a contract extension is part of the trade, Winnipeg will want more. The contract will be very lucrative. It's a very expensive deal all around. Expensive rental. Trouba signs a long term contract next summer with the Red Wings.

Trouba isn't even a great D. He is a good D. I am a little dubious of the Rangers going after Trouba after their failed Shattenkirk experiment. What are the Rangers doing with Shattenkirk if they do somehow trade for and sign Trouba? According to Brooks, there is little to no market for Shattenkirk at 50% retention. Don't tell me they will buy him out. The cap hit for 20-21 is $6,083,333. They save $566.557.

They better be careful because a new CBA will probably be signed this summer and the players main issue is escrow. Changing the cap calculation without the 5% inflator will help alleviate escrow concerns. The actual revenue is used. Nothing else. If the cap is $78M, it's $78M. There was a whole big article yesterday on the CBA negotiations. The players are also concerned about the slow growth in revenue streams. A new US TV contract isn't pumping a lot of new money into the system to make a significant contribution to the cap going up.

Just because a player is available doesn't make him a #1D. We heard it with Shattenkirk.

 

[Ola]

Trouba may or may not sign a long term extension this summer with the acquiring team. If a contract extension is part of the trade, Winnipeg will want more. The contract will be very lucrative. It's a very expensive deal all around. Expensive rental. Trouba signs a long term contract next summer with the Red Wings.

Trouba isn't even a great D. He is a good D. I am a little dubious of the Rangers going after Trouba after their failed Shattenkirk experiment. What are the Rangers doing with Shattenkirk if they do somehow trade for and sign Trouba? According to Brooks, there is little to no market for Shattenkirk at 50% retention. Don't tell me they will buy him out. The cap hit for 20-21 is $6,083,333. They save $566.557.

They better be careful because a new CBA will probably be signed this summer and the players main issue is escrow. Changing the cap calculation without the 5% inflator will help alleviate escrow concerns. The actual revenue is used. Nothing else. If the cap is $78M, it's $78M. There was a whole big article yesterday on the CBA negotiations. The players are also concerned about the slow growth in revenue streams. A new US TV contract isn't pumping a lot of new money into the system to make a significant contribution to the cap going up.

Just because a player is available doesn't make him a #1D. We heard it with Shattenkirk.

I agree with your view on Trouba. Not sure that an extension would make him more expensive though.

Any extension for him will be UFA money. And he will of course only be prepared to resign with a limited group of teams. People knows it. If they acquire him as a rental his value is just not much more than what say Stone got. If Winnipeg wants more an extension must be part of it, at an UFA money rate of course.

In the end, I am not sold on that Trouba is worth the price. He could be, but he is a few steps away from it.

 

[Blue Blooded]

This would be like the Rangers resigning Ryane Clowe when he was in NY though. Hagelin has looked bad on multiple teams over a couple of years. I don’t mind the cap hit but the term, to me, is nuts for a guy who is more likely to be a borderline 3rd liner.

Hagelin is still hugely underrated because most don't seem to know what he actually is and how to use him best.

Hagelin is a possession demon who can't score at all. If you put him with grinders the most likely outcome is that neither team is going to score when the line is on the ice. But if you put him with skill players the line is going to dominate both on the shot clock and the scoreboard even if Hagelin himself may not put up huge numbers.

Over the past three seasons Evgeni Malkin has been a 55 CF%, 57 xGF% and 60 GF% player with Hagelin on the ice 5v5 and at or just below 50% in all three categories without him (both situations have sample sizes of 1000+ minutes). And no, it's not a Kessel thing. Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel was amazing while X-Malkin-Kessel was a disaster.

He is the perfect linemate for a guy like Kuznetsov who has struggled 5v5 (though that's not where Washington has used him yet).

 

[RGY]

To me the Shattenkirk signing is not very comparable to the Trouba situation.

Different type of defenseman. Shattenkirk is way more one dimensional. Trouba is bigger and can play a shutdown role. He is also just 25 years old.

 

[Good Intentions]

To me the Shattenkirk signing is not very comparable to the Trouba situation.

Different type of defenseman. Shattenkirk is way more one dimensional. Trouba is bigger and can play a shutdown role. He is also just 25 years old.

Agree, not comparable - but the term still worries me.

Let's remember how elated the majority were that Shattenkirk joined on a 'home town discount' - and now we have a 41-year-old-looking dad bod stuck on the books through 2021. I think back to 1993 at my old Fleer Ultra hockey cards - Shattenkirk is that guy where I'd go "he doesn't look like a hockey player, is he a part-time coach?"

Trouba has had a contentious relationship in Winnipeg, anything there to be concerned about?

 

[eco's bones]

Huska was fine last season, and Shestyerkin is as close as you can get to a sure thing goalie prospect wise, so I’m not too concerned about any of the other ones being close to ready right now when Lundqvist is going to be around for another 2 years

I really don't know how people can say Huska had a fine year--he played for a bad UConn team for sure but finished the year with an .896 save% and that's not a good save % and then went 1-7-1 for the Pack with an .889 save %. He's going to need some work before he's ready to play in the NHL.

Shesterkin's numbers on the other hand were stellar throughout and have been stellar for a long time. There is a but though and the but is he's been playing for SKA St. Petersburg which has been a powerhouse KHL team for years and he's not used to getting bombed and he's going to get bombed whether he ends up in Hartford or in New York. It's different when you're facing 20-25 shots a night as opposed to 35-45 with all kinds of grade A chances like Henrik, Georgiev have been regularly facing on a nightly basis. Maybe it won't be a big deal for Igor but we really won't know until he's in the middle of it. We've seen Georgiev outright steal games that the Rangers had no business winning---that's why I hesitate to put Shesterkin above him. Almost always Igor's teams have been better than opposing teams and all he has to really do is hold the fort--the pressure more at the other end of the ice. It's different playing for a dominant team than a team that gets dominated.