Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVI

[Thirty One]

View attachment 359959
Maybe it’s the other way around...

View attachment 359959

Are you joking?

 

[egelband]

He would fit like a glove.

Or like a hand in a glove

(Sorry for all the Morrissey puns).

 

[Doctyl]

We really shouldn’t do anything. We have the pieces, let them gel and mature. The challenge is going to be keeping the team together under the cap, no need to make that any harder. I’m very okay with the KZB line, a panarin line, and a Laf-Chytil-Kakko kids line going into next season. Hopefully Kravtsov can push Fast down to the 4th line and Panarin could take him under his wing. The rest of the prospect pool are dmen who we need to wait and see how they do

 

[JC704]

IMO, Buch and Georgie will likely be the odd men out. I don't know exactly how to make it work with the salary cap -- unless Tony D takes a bridge contract, which for him would not be a terrible move -- but this is what I am hoping for on Opening Night next season:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Fast
Lafrenière-Chytil-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
+1

Lindgren-Fox
Hajek/Miller-Trouba
Hajek/Miller-DeAngelo
+ Staal/Smith

Igor
Hank

Still holding out hope Hank is here as the veteran 1B to Igor for next season and decides to end his career as the veteran backup. Will gladly take the growing pains of Hajek/Miller instead of Staal/Smith. I hope Lias gets back into the fold because I'm not a fan of Howden and would like to see competition at 4C. Barron may come into play at some point. This team is ready to fly.

 

[La Sila]

No, I don’t think a core player has to necessarily rank that high. Based on your definition, some combination of half your top six forwards, top four defensemen and starting goalie wouldn’t be core players.

Applying that to most of the top team’s in the league would leave out some noteworthy players.

It is widely accepted that...

• the Penguins core was Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fleury before Kessel replaced MAF.
• the Blackhawks core was Kane/Toews/Keith/Seabrook
• the Capitals core was Ovi/Backstrom/Kuzya/Carlson/Holtby

But let's use your definition that most (if not all) of the top 6 and top 4 are core players.
In that case, Anthony Cirelli (a 2C with 1bC upside) would definitely be a core player.

 

[Edge]

It is widely accepted that...

• the Penguins core was Crosby/Malkin/Letang/Fleury before Kessel replaced MAF.
• the Blackhawks core was Kane/Toews/Keith/Seabrook
• the Capitals core was Ovi/Backstrom/Kuzya/Carlson/Holtby

But let's use your definition that most (if not all) of the top 6 and top 4 are core players.
In that case, Anthony Cirelli (a 2C with 1bC upside) would definitely be a core player.

Based on that premise, Cirelli isn’t even filling a core role on the current roster, let alone the future one.

And that’s assuming I agree that he has 1B upside, which I don’t think is a given.

 

[QJL]

Delete.

Happy Laf Day

 

[426ers]

I don't see a log-jam right now

I see a very nice left side with Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere and Lemieux.

On the right side I see Buch and Kakko and a bunch of question marks. Maybe Kravtsov. Maybe Gauthier. Maybe Fast. Maybe Chytil.

But right now, I think Chytil is going to get another look at center, especially with the depth on the left side.

There's no odd man out there.

You could run something like:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Gauthier
Lafreniere-Chytil-Buchnevich
Lemieux-Howden-Fast

Hopefully working Kravtsov in there at some point, move guys around as need be, etc. I don't really see a jam at the moment, and certainly nothing that we couldn't trade our way out of.

Would you swap out Buch and Kakko and let that third line feast on the other teams second / 3rd line defensive pairings.?

 

[Edge]

Would you swap out Buch and Kakko and let that third line feast on the other teams second / 3rd line defensive pairings.?

Maybe, I’d probably prefer to keep at least some additional experience on that line.

 

[La Sila]

We really shouldn’t do anything. We have the pieces, let the gel and mature. The challenge is going to be keeping the team together under the cap, no need to make that any harder. I’m very okay with the KZB line, a panarin line, and a Laf-Chytil-Kakko kids line going into next season. Hopefully Kravtsov can push Fast down to the 4th line and Panarin could take him under his wing. The rest of the prospect pool are dmen who we need to wait and see how they do

I respect where you're coming from, but by opening night, Panarin will be 29, Zib will be 27 and only two years from UFA, and Kreider will be 29 and just beginning an immovable contract.
We have an elite 1C who may or may not be here in two years, and Panarin and Kreider have more good years behind them than in front. We have the pieces to compete now while still being set for a decade if we manage our assets intelligently and acquire the center depth and LD needed t0 actually win a playoff series.
Let's not do what the Islanders or Panthers did by hoarding our bluechip prospects and expecting them to pan out while each year our actual NHLers get older and closer to UFA. Carpe Diem.

 

[Doctyl]

I respect where you're coming from, but by opening night, Panarin will be 29, Zib will be 27 and only two years from UFA, and Kreider will be 29 and just beginning an immovable contract.
We have an elite 1C who may or may not be here in two years, and Panarin and Kreider have more good years behind them than in front. We have the pieces to compete now while still being set for a decade if we manage our assets intelligently and acquire the center depth and LD needed t0 actually win a playoff series.
Let's not do what the Islanders or Panthers did by hoarding our bluechip prospects and expecting them to pan out while each year our actual NHLers get older and closer to UFA. Carpe Diem.

Panarin, Zib, and Kreider already are those carpe diem pieces those other teams didn’t have. The elite/top line caliber vet presence is here. That’s something most rebuilding teams don’t have in place. I would rather not overpay for a FA center or pony up a ransom for one in a trade.

 

[La Sila]

Based on that premise, Cirelli isn’t even filling a core role on the current roster, let alone the future one.

And that’s assuming I agree that he has 1B upside, which I don’t think is a given.

You're being obtuse. I never claimed that Cirelli was a core player by my definition.
And Cirelli is only a 3C with Tampa bc they have to elite centers in front of him. By that logic, Malkin isn't a first line center because he isn't even filling a first line role with the Penguins.

And I curious as to why you think Cirelli (already a 2C) doesn't have 1b upside, but have so much faith that Chytil (a second line winger) Lundkvist (a 20-year-old whose never even played on North American ice) will become impact, core players.

 

[Edge]

I respect where you're coming from, but by opening night, Panarin will be 29, Zib will be 27 and only two years from UFA, and Kreider will be 29 and just beginning an immovable contract.
We have an elite 1C who may or may not be here in two years, and Panarin and Kreider have more good years behind them than in front. We have the pieces to compete now while still being set for a decade if we manage our assets intelligently and acquire the center depth and LD needed t0 actually win a playoff series.
Let's not do what the Islanders or Panthers did by hoarding our bluechip prospects and expecting them to pan out while each year our actual NHLers get older and closer to UFA. Carpe Diem.

Based on the first list of concerns, I don’t think an immediate roster move is going to change any of those factors.

I am confused. Who do you think we’re bringing in (and at what cost via trades and contracts) that’s going to both alleviate that concern and plug in the holes at LD, RW and Center?

 

[Doctyl]

I’m sick of making trades with Tampa solely on the fact that not a single one has worked out to date

 

[La Sila]

Panarin, Zib, and Kreider already are those carpe diem pieces those other teams didn’t have. The elite/top line caliber vet presence is here. That’s something most rebuilding teams don’t have in place. I would rather not overpay for a FA center or pony up a ransom for one in a trade.

We are not ready to compete as is. We need at minimum an actual 2C and at least one top 4 LD before we have a chance in hell at winning a playoff series.
Lafreniere potting 60-70 points from the wing is not the difference that would have kept us from getting swept out of the battle of the middling 16 teams.

 

[n8]

IMO, Buch and Georgie will likely be the odd men out. I don't know exactly how to make it work with the salary cap -- unless Tony D takes a bridge contract, which for him would not be a terrible move -- but this is what I am hoping for on Opening Night next season:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Fast
Lafrenière-Chytil-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier
+1

I have a hard time believing the Rangers would trade Buch just so they have room to resign Fast. You recall he is a UFA this offseason?

 

[Doctyl]

We are not ready to compete as is. We need at minimum an actual 2C and at least one top 4 LD before we have a chance in hell at winning a playoff series.
Lafreniere potting 60-70 points from the wing is not the difference that would have kept us from getting swept.

I still think Chytil will be a good 2C and that we shouldn’t rush to overpay for one and shoot ourselves in the foot when we can’t afford to keep our young talent.

we are still one of the youngest teams in the league. They need time to come together. The pieces are here. We have never had anything like this before, we just need to be a little patient.

 

[Edge]

You're being obtuse. Cirelli is only a 3C with Tampa bc they have to elite centers in front of him. By that logic, Malkin isn't a first line center because he isn't even filling a first line role with the Penguins.

And I curious as to why you think Cirelli (already a 2C) doesn't have 1b upside, but have so much faith that Chytil (a second line winger) Lundkvist (a 20-year-old whose never even played on North American ice) will become impact, core players.

I’m sorry you’re so confused, allow me to explain, further.

Cirelli isn’t one of the Tampa’s top 3 or 4 players, based on your criteria.

Cirelli would not be one of the Rangers top 3 or 4 players based on your criteria.

So, based on your criteria, not mine, he would not be a core player. Those are your parameters not mine.

Cirelli is currently Tampa’s third best center. I think he would be our second best center. But I don’t think he’s a second best center on a championship team - be it Tampa, or the Rangers, or anyone else.

As such, I am not interested in trading Chytil, who has generally been ahead of where Cirelli was at the same age and experience level, and Lundkvist, who heads into next season as one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL, in a move for Cirelli.

I think Cirelli is a nice player who gets the most out of his ability. I think offensively he’s not terribly creative or dynamic, but he’s good enough to compliment better players. He’s very responsible in his own end, and he’s a good player to have on your team. But he’s not a guy I am paying that kind of price for.

 

[egelband]

Lafreniere is going to become the face of this franchise in a very short order.

I being selfish and mayyyybe unrealistic but I want Henrik to be our Yoda/backup goalie for a couple more seasons. And I reallllly could see JG and JD agreeing.

 

[n8]

Crazy what if just for fun...

What if #1OA + Strome for #2OA + Turcotte?

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally in the LAF boat here but it's just one of those fun forum what ifs to ponder about. Kings have Vilardi who is doing great for them (and frankly that roster needs help everywhere. They'd probably even be interested in Georgiev)

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buch
Panarin-Turcotte-Kakko
Chytil-Byfield-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Howden-Gauthier

 

[La Sila]

Based on the first list of concerns, I don’t think an immediate roster move is going to change any of those factors.

I am confused. Who do you think we’re bringing in (and at what cost via trades and contracts) that’s going to both alleviate that concern and plug in the holes at LD, RW and Center?

We don't have a hole at RW. RW/LW are the most replaceable and easily compensated for position in the league.
This whole debate started because I suggested moving Lafreniere.
Maybe for Barkov if he is available.
The Avs have a stacked D, maybe they'd be interested in adding to Byram.

 

[egelband]

We have ONE of the top centers in the league. Then a whole bunch of crap down the depth chart. I don't care if Panarin elevated Strome to a 70 point pace. That is the same argument Shero and Byslma used to staple Dupuis and Kunitz on Crosby's hip for the entirety of his prime.

The 2013 Blackhawks were probably the greatest roster ever assembled in the cap era.
The 2015 Blackhawks weren't quite as good, but I don't see what good it does to pretend like the Rangers are anywhere near their level just because they added Lafreniere.
And my point is that why wait for Lafreniere to (hopefully) become a top 20 forward within three years when we can trade him for a current top 20 forward at a position of greater need and greater importance.

This wouldn't impress me even if his 2019 win wasn't against the single worst crop of CHL draft eligible prospects in history.

View attachment 359942

I didn't realize he played for the same juniors team that Sid the Kid played for. That's kind of spooky. Buckle up!

 

[Edge]

I still think Chytil will be a good 2C and that we shouldn’t rush to overpay for one and shoot ourselves in the foot when we can’t afford to keep our young talent.

we are still one of the youngest teams in the league. They need time to come together. The pieces are here. We have never had anything like this before, we just need to be a little patient.

And as a point of reference, I think Chytil is basically only now at the point Cirelli was when he made the full-time jump to the NHL. Despite how long it seems he’s been around, Chytil isn’t even old enough to buy a post-game beer in the city. I think we sometimes forget that.

Chytil, by most opinions was ahead of where Cirelli was at the same age and stage of development. So I am hesitant to go down that path. Adding in Lundkvist really seals the decline for me. This kid has hit blue chip status as a prospect and is going to start next season as of the best defensive prospects in hockey.

 

[egelband]

serious questions: what caliber are you assuming he's going to be? how soon do you expect him to hit that? and then what changes to the following bubble-tier roster do you propose that will make us Cup Contenders during his ELC?

Kreider - Zib - Buch
Panarin - Strome - Kakko
LaFreniere - Chytil - Fast
Barron - Howden - Gauthier

Lindgren - Trouba
Staal - Fox
xxxx - DeAngelo

Igor
Georgiev

Non-Roster Assets: Miller, Kravtsov, Andersson, CAR's 1st

Not an expert of Lafreniere but having been a sports fan for a long time by instinct is that he's going to be more productive and more advanced than Hughes and Kakko were in their first year. But always smart to not underestimate how tough this league is. Good third liner is my baseline and I hope he does better.

 

[Edge]

We don't have a hole at RW. RW/LW are the most replaceable and easily compensated for position in the league.
This whole debate started because I suggested moving Lafreniere.
Maybe for Barkov if he is available.
The Avs have a stacked D, maybe they'd be interested in adding to Byram.

Yes. That is how it started. And I’m still not feeling some of these concepts. But now I’m confused, are we trading with Florida for Barkov or the Avs for Byram?