Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVI

[kinger8998]

We are not getting panarin for 11m per anymore after the skinner contract. He will command 12-13 aav now. I'm not spending more money on panarin than the best player in hockey McDavid. That contract will put us in cap hell. Can we stop being the rangers of old. Let panarin go.

Let our bad contracts just run out or next year when there is 1 year left on Smith shatty Staal we can trade them with retention. Instead let's use our cap space wisely since we are not going anywhere for another 2 years or so. Sign players like Simmonds, Ennis, panik and so on for cheap since 2 of the 3 made less than 2m, and Simmonds made 3m. Sign them to a 1 year deal each and at the deadline they can be assets that we trade to get draft capital. Keep building from within and use the capital we get to move up high in the draft to get our own potential stars. And we can then if we want to use the cap space we can go after Taylor hall.

also, just one more point here. if you're expecting simmonds, ennis and panik to have suitors that will pay up at deadline, then those same suitors (or some of them) will likely be in the bargain bin in free agency already looking at these players. why would a guy turn down one of them to play for the rangers (who won't be awful but won't be a playoff team), just to have to pick up and move somewhere in february that he could have signed with in july?

i like the idea of signing guys to deals that will be flipped, but how often does it really happen, aside from vanek before he went to detroit? normally its veterans on long-term expiring deals that get flipped at deadline

 

[RangerBoy]

The rebuild is going to last 5-10 years. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.



The Rangers need to be a bad team again this coming season. They will be competitive again. They need to play the young players more. Let them learn. The young players will all be a year older. There can’t be the excuses about the players being too young.

The draft picks and prospects continue to develop in their respective leagues.

The 2020 draft is loaded. The Rangers pick should be a high pick. One more 1st rounder in that draft would be ideal. The Stars are negotiating with Zuccarello. The Rangers would get the Stars #1 pick if the Stars sign him. If the Stars are worried about that pick becoming a top 10 pick, maybe the Rangers can work with them. Put a condition on the pick. If it’s a top 10 pick, the Stars keep the selection and the Rangers get their 2021 1st rounder. Anything outside of the top 10 belongs to the Rangers in 2020.

Trade Kreider in the next few weeks for a 2020 first round pick. The Rangers get another conditional pick if Kreider re-signs with that team. Getting a quality 2019 first round pick will be tough for Kreider. Not impossible.

The Rangers should be ready to by 2021-22. Kakko/Hughes and Kravstov will be entering the last season of their entry level deals. They will have two years of NHL experience. The $25.2M owed to Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith will be off the books. All of their other young players like Miller and Lundkvist should be NHLers or close to playing in the NHL by then. One of the young Russian goaltenders will emerge or maybe both of them will emerge.

There will be more quality young players brought into the organization this summer and next summer.

Two more years. That’s nothing. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall.

5-10 years?

 

[Leetch3]

As many have said, I think Chytil ends up a winger long term. I'm a proponent of signing Panarin as I feel this team will be entering the playoffs in the 2020-21 season. The top 9 could look something like (Based off assumption Kreider is dealt):

Chytil - Zbad - Kaako
Kravtsov- XXXX - Panarin
Lemieux- Howden - Buch

Big question up front is who that #2 C is. Does Andersson turn it on? Do they use the asset(s) acquired in a Kreider plus the #20 to get into the top 10 and get one of the centers?

On D they have a lot of talent in the pipeline, but it's all potential at this point. Only #1 D potential is Miller. Then you have a bunch of #3 potentials in Fox, ADA, Hajek, Lundkvist. Skjei is a 2nd pairing D.

Do you trade Andersson plus something to grab Trouba? Guess that's if you feel hes a 1st pairing Dman.

give me one more losing season to let contracts run out and kids to develop than add quinton byfield to that group and

 

[Leetch3]

The Oilers won't give up on him. The kid needs a fresh start, so Holland will probably loan him to Jokerit in KHL or Karpat his youth club.

not saying that they should give up on him, but sending him back to finland at this point sounds like a pretty horrible idea

 

[Fitzy]

I'd just as soon see how the team progresses in terms of ability organically, rather than actively push to keep them terrible or look to short term big signings to yield improvements.

We'll have a much better idea in two seasons what some of our prospects are likely to be, and will have a whole load of potential cap room to work with.

 

[Leetch3]

I'd just as soon see how the team progresses in terms of ability organically, rather than actively push to keep them terrible or look to short term big signings to yield improvements.

We'll have a much better idea in two seasons what some of our prospects are likely to be, and will have a whole load of potential cap room to work with.

I think most looking at another bad year are looking at letting the team grow organically by not trying to speed up the process. not going out of our way to make the team worse...if our draft position gets ruined by a bunch of UFA signings that aren't part of the long term solution thats not good, but if we are better than expected cause chytil, howden, andersson, buchnevich, ADA all improve and kratsov, kakko and hajek hit the ground running literally no one will be upset or complaining

 

[Leetch3]

i get that you don't want to pay panarin 12-13, but i hope you realise if panarin gets that much hall will easily command that to. he's won a hart, and was on pace for 91 points in the new jersey devils this year lol. unless hall wants to play somewhere specific and will sacrifice money to do so, like tavares taking 11 in toronto insetad of 12.5 in sjs, you won't be getting hall for cheaper than panarin

the timing would work better if panarin was available next summer...but if my options are panarin or hall, I take panarin 15 out of 10 times

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

i get that you don't want to pay panarin 12-13, but i hope you realise if panarin gets that much hall will easily command that to. he's won a hart, and was on pace for 91 points in the new jersey devils this year lol. unless hall wants to play somewhere specific and will sacrifice money to do so, like tavares taking 11 in toronto insetad of 12.5 in sjs, you won't be getting hall for cheaper than panarin

Good thing they will have options beyond those 2.

 

[Thirty One]

Two more years. That’s nothing. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall.

Amazing.

 

[True Blue]

I think most looking at another bad year are looking at letting the team grow organically by not trying to speed up the process. not going out of our way to make the team worse...if our draft position gets ruined by a bunch of UFA signings that aren't part of the long term solution thats not good, but if we are better than expected cause chytil, howden, andersson, buchnevich, ADA all improve and kratsov, kakko and hajek hit the ground running literally no one will be upset or complaining

Well put. No one will complain if the kids step up so much that this team is suddenly in the playoff hunt. That would be an unexpected pleasure to watch. What people do not want is band aid fixes for the sake of instant gratification.

the timing would work better if panarin was available next summer...but if my options are panarin or hall, I take panarin 15 out of 10 times

As well, but option 3 (neither of them) works much better.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

also, just one more point here. if you're expecting simmonds, ennis and panik to have suitors that will pay up at deadline, then those same suitors (or some of them) will likely be in the bargain bin in free agency already looking at these players. why would a guy turn down one of them to play for the rangers (who won't be awful but won't be a playoff team), just to have to pick up and move somewhere in february that he could have signed with in july?

i like the idea of signing guys to deals that will be flipped, but how often does it really happen, aside from vanek before he went to detroit? normally its veterans on long-term expiring deals that get flipped at deadline

I dont believe teams will be lining up to sign these guys. They are solid contributors to their teams but had down years this season. They will need to find a team that will take a chance on them. And at 2-4 million which is what I think they will get it will be worth it. I believe most teams are concerned with signing the big name free agents. You give these guys a prove me contract and I do believe they will be tradeable to playoff contention teams. I hate to be following a Boston team but look at what the Patriots do.. they find the bargain guys, build them up and trade them.

On panarin. I believe that the only way he takes 11 is if it's the Panthers who dont have state taxes. To be able to match their deal, we need to offer 12-13m. And as good as the bread man is, if I'm going to throw out 13m on a player coming up in free agency I'll take hall who can carry a team points wise and teams have to game plan for.

 

[I Eat Crow]

The rebuild is going to last 5-10 years. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.



The Rangers need to be a bad team again this coming season. They will be competitive again. They need to play the young players more. Let them learn. The young players will all be a year older. There can’t be the excuses about the players being too young.

The draft picks and prospects continue to develop in their respective leagues.

The 2020 draft is loaded. The Rangers pick should be a high pick. One more 1st rounder in that draft would be ideal. The Stars are negotiating with Zuccarello. The Rangers would get the Stars #1 pick if the Stars sign him. If the Stars are worried about that pick becoming a top 10 pick, maybe the Rangers can work with them. Put a condition on the pick. If it’s a top 10 pick, the Stars keep the selection and the Rangers get their 2021 1st rounder. Anything outside of the top 10 belongs to the Rangers in 2020.

Trade Kreider in the next few weeks for a 2020 first round pick. The Rangers get another conditional pick if Kreider re-signs with that team. Getting a quality 2019 first round pick will be tough for Kreider. Not impossible.

The Rangers should be ready to by 2021-22. Kakko/Hughes and Kravstov will be entering the last season of their entry level deals. They will have two years of NHL experience. The $25.2M owed to Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith will be off the books. All of their other young players like Miller and Lundkvist should be NHLers or close to playing in the NHL by then. One of the young Russian goaltenders will emerge or maybe both of them will emerge.

There will be more quality young players brought into the organization this summer and next summer.

Two more years. That’s nothing. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall. Winter. Spring. Summer. Fall.

5-10 years?

All you have to do is call...

 

[DutchShamrock]

It just feels like this fanbase is conditioned to get free agents. The conversations always morph into getting the biggest free agent. The only UFA talk should be about plugging the hole during contention.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Chytil-Strome-Kakko
Lemieux-Howden-Andersson
Meskanen/Vesey-Nieves/Letteri-Namestnikov/?/Smith (ugh)

Kravtsov has to win a spot. What if we draft a Newhook or #2 center? Then you don't want to commit too long to a UFA center, which is a bigger need currently than wing. Are the chytil and andersson center experiments over? Then a UFA center is conflicting even more with the current plan.

Granted, Kreider could be gone. But we have long term solutions for wing trying to get in.

Defense is a mess, but it isn't fixed in free agency. Time. Staal won't get bought out. Shattenkirk is a remote possibility of a trade. Adding a vet creates a bigger logjam.

If we did this right, you don't need the best ufa on the market. Zibanejad, Andersson/2019/2020 draft pick, Howden down the middle. Buch, Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil on top 6 wing. Great 3rd line options. Defense is less predictable in general which is great because we have a ton of pieces and hopes that a few become the next Giordano surprise. Let scenarios emerge and trade from strength. See what we have.

 

[kinger8998]

Good thing they will have options beyond those 2.

yes i know they will, i was just referring to the previous poster saying using hall as an example by name!

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[I Eat Crow]

What he's really saying...

"Your offers have been shite, step them up"

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I don't know if Rangers/Flyers are the best trading partners for swapping draft picks.

 

[Leetch3]

I don't know if Rangers/Flyers are the best trading partners for swapping draft picks.

I get the impression that its not swapping picks...flyers are shopping the pick for immediate help

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

yes i know they will, i was just referring to the previous poster saying using hall as an example by name!

Yeah I was just using hall as an example bf hes the big fish next year. I'm happy just taking bargain shopping until we are ready

 

[BKGooner]

Let AV put the band back together for 3rd period turtling in Philly. There are plenty of guys I would drive to Philly to get the Rangers 11 OA. I would also help them find houses by the practice rink in Pennsauken or whereever and give AV a lifetime supply of Wrigleys or Big League Chew or whatever.

 

[CommaSynapse]

I don't know if Rangers/Flyers are the best trading partners for swapping draft picks.

I always feel this is a bit over-blown. If they want Kreider for 11OA while we're not competing, I'd seriously consider it. We'd only play them 2-4 times per year, and the playoffs is the only place where it might bite us down the line, by which point Kreider may already be in decline by the time we're there.

 

[theFiGS]

Whoever thinks this team is more than 3 years away needs to pass me whatever they're smoking. If kakko and kratzov are what most think they will be with the youth we already have plus I wanna see us add panarin and a defensive D man I have no interest in karlsson. A vet or 2 for bottom 6 maybe bring back Brian Boyle and Callahan if salary works and comp is right this team will blow up fast. I think K'Andre is a future 50+ pt dman when he joins. We are far from perfect but this team is beautifully built. And I want panarin not because he's the sexy scoring but seeing his heart in the playoffs this year he's got leadership qualities and a passion most just don't have. Our pipeline is nice, id move picks and mid prospects now for that D man I mentioned. 2-3 years were in the conf final 4-6 we have a cup oor 2, this summer will define the next 10-20 years for the rangers, we acquired the assets we drafted well now use some of the futures for now because we can't have a 30 man roster. I see a cup in the next 5 for us. Belief is half the battle gents

 

[theFiGS]

Btw I love our young D but they need that vet all star former captain beast teaching them because steal isn't that guy he's too quiet for that and I love him as a ranger, I don't know if I'd even give Anderson the chance to show case his skill to us if there's a team out there who will over pay move him now, chytil zib howden is a great too 3 centers of they prove themselves, I liked what I saw from howden more than Anderson.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Let AV put the band back together for 3rd period turtling in Philly. There are plenty of guys I would drive to Philly to get the Rangers 11 OA. I would also help them find houses by the practice rink in Pennsauken or whereever and give AV a lifetime supply of Wrigleys or Big League Chew or whatever.

Kreider+Pionk.

Or Staal. We know AV loves himself some Marc Staal.

 

[Ola]

It’s very rare that teams are able to quick and easy get out of a rebuild.

Not commenting on if I believe in it or not, but if we can get out of this rebuild within 5 years I think we are hitting better than average for rebuilding teams. 6-7 years in total.

However, there are exceptions. But it’s not easy and it’s certainly not going to be easy for us.

I think ‘getting out of the rebuild’ will be very similar to the situation when we drafted Lias. Many thought that a 7th overall pick was guaranteed to be able to step in right away and dominate in the NHL. Then when he wasn’t able to do that many turned on him and now he is in general considered to be a bust, by many at least. In reality it’s probably fair to label it as him coming along fine and at a pace that can be expected, and that he probably will turn out to be a decent pick in that range.

Many already have this pretty absurd notion that Gorton just can ‘stop’ the rebuild by snapping his fingers. What is that even supposed to mean? Things can go well and we might get into the POs soon, but we might as well miss it. And if you start to miss them year in and year out, it creates a lot of trouble.

People are laughing at posters now that aren’t certain that we will contend in 21/22. But it’s the very same posters that will act like spoiled kids and blame it on Gorton/Quinn and everyone else if we don’t. When we probably are coming around just fine — just like with Lias — the world will be coming down in Rangerland.