Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[JimmyG89]

With the lottery, having a top 7 pick likely means us needing to be a bottom 5 team.

This is probably not going to be difficult for us to do again.

 

[Ghost of jas]

With the lottery, having a top 7 pick likely means us needing to be a bottom 5 team.

Which is what I think this team will be next year.

 

[mulli25]

This is probably not going to be difficult for us to do again.

Somehow, I'm getting the feeling people keep forgetting exactly how bad this team actually is right now

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Somehow, I'm getting the feeling people keep forgetting exactly how bad this team actually is right now

True. We also have no idea who is replacing Hayes. And banking on Kakko or Kravtsov to replace Zucc's production is a really high bar.

If we move Kreider, I think we are talking about bottom 3.

 

[RGY]

San Jose is going to shuffle the deck. Probably no Thornton and they probably let Karlsson walk. There is cap space.

Jones finally got hot but he need a gift in each round to advance. The sharks have to be concerned when Pavelski, burns and Couture have only so many runs left together. Your goalie at least has to keep you in it, not undermine the effort.

The combination of need, willingness to go for it, the trend towards tandems, the bay area... I see a fit for Lundqvist in SJ. Maybe it's an in season move with the cap hit defeated. It will be a process if it actually happens.

I do not see Hank waiving to go the West Coast. Especially if EK is leaving.

 

[duhmetreE]

And he got paid by Toronto to win cups in Pittsburgh. His cap hit in Toronto is completely irrelevant to the Penguins building their team. Very reasonable price when he got traded. Not a good contract for a rebuilding team that knew their window wasn't lining up with his productive years.

This is a very strange point to make in defense of Panarin. There is enough reasons to back Panarin, a team eating cap to trade away an expensive wing is a bizarre example.

It's not a defense it's about accuracy.

He won cups in Pitt with a veteran team, the scenario is not similar. We're not comparing team-scenarios but players and what they were signed for.

I want Panarin but I'm not going to jump through mental hoops to try to enforce a narrative.

 

[JimmyG89]

Somehow, I'm getting the feeling people keep forgetting exactly how bad this team actually is right now

We need a LOT to go right for the team to even this about being in the pursuit of a WC spot. Could all of those things happen? Sure, but the reality is that all of our young forwards (less than 100 games played) and defense would need to become more than NHL regulars. That's going to be asking a lot from a bunch of rookies/sophomore players.

 

[Tawnos]

The issue with paying Panarin has little to do with 3rd or 4th lines. Focusing on that is arbitrary. The main issue is that he can block you from going after important pieces down the line.

Maybe, Panarin will play like a star for 7 years. I have a hard time believing that. The core we are building should be hitting its stride in 3-5 years. If Panarin declines, like most do after age 30, we will have a huge contract spot being eaten up by a player who is not living up to it. We know how that feels. We know what the consequences are.

When you overpay your top guys and they under-perform, you won't win. Simple as that.

You never had discussions about cup winners in recent years overpaying their top guys. They were always earning their keep. In the regular season and playoffs.

It's funny, I argue a lot on here in favor of signing Panarin, but the truth is that I just don't want the FO to shut themselves off to every opportunity based on an ideological stance like "don't sign UFAs until you know what you have."

If they look at Panarin and believe that he will decline too much by 2022, that's a perfectly valid reason not to sign him. I just prefer that they treat each situation individually. Like the thing with Karlsson and his injury concerns.

 

[Ghost of jas]

We need a LOT to go right for the team to even this about being in the pursuit of a WC spot. Could all of those things happen? Sure, but the reality is that all of our young forwards (less than 100 games played) and defense would need to become more than NHL regulars. That's going to be asking a lot from a bunch of rookies/sophomore players.

Which is another area where JD preaching patience comes in. For this group to get within smelling distance of the playoffs, so much has to go right. I think this is a big reason why JD is here.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

San Jose is going to shuffle the deck. Probably no Thornton and they probably let Karlsson walk. There is cap space.

Jones finally got hot but he need a gift in each round to advance. The sharks have to be concerned when Pavelski, burns and Couture have only so many runs left together. Your goalie at least has to keep you in it, not undermine the effort.

The combination of need, willingness to go for it, the trend towards tandems, the bay area... I see a fit for Lundqvist in SJ. Maybe it's an in season move with the cap hit defeated. It will be a process if it actually happens.

That Evander Kane contract is ugly too. 2 goals 6 assists in 20 playoff games.

 

[RangerBoy]

JD, he said, told Gorton to “keep pushing that” rebuild.

“Jeff’s a hard worker, seems like a terrific person, so I’m going to sit in the room and we’ll have lots of discussions,” Davidson said. “He’s got experience, too, coming out of the Boston situation and then to the Rangers. I really look forward to working with him.”

Davidson added that he loves the transparency of Gorton’s plan and its execution.

“There is no quick fix,” he added later. “There’s nothing magical about it. You need a little bit of luck at times, but it’s hard work, it’s patience, it’s having the proper resolve to understand that there’s going to be a lot of people that are going to want to do things differently, who are on the outside. We on the inside have to stay with what our thoughts are, what are plans are. You deviate, possibly, but you try to build in every area. There’s no secrets to it.”

The outside is the media and fans.

JD will be more hands on than Sather but he allows the GM make the decisions. That's how it was in St. Louis and Columbus.

 

[NYR Viper]

He makes 1.85M now. That's fine. What do you think he's going to want/get on his next deal?

I think he gets $2.75m per season

 

[eco's bones]

We need to be a lottery team for one more yr... yes there’s no guarantee that we win it... we’ve already had 2 years of those posts. What we don’t have is the other blue chip prospect we (and other Stanley Cup winners had) need.

Boston is probably going to win a Cup this year. Of recent prospects I suppose you could call Pasternak (25OA) or McAvoy (14OA) blue chip but neither of them was even close to being a top 5 pick. Edmonton and Buffalo have had tons of top 5 picks. Picking early and often doesn't always work out the way people suppose.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Boston is probably going to win a Cup this year. Of recent prospects I suppose you could call Pasternak (25OA) or McAvoy (14OA) blue chip but neither of them was even close to being a top 5 pick. Edmonton and Buffalo have had tons of top 5 picks. Picking early and often doesn't always work out the way people suppose.

Bad management. It's always bad management when rebuilds go bad.

 

[SA16]

I think he gets $2.75m per season

And that's exactly the problem. I wouldn't give him anything close to that for any length of that.

 

[mulli25]

Boston is probably going to win a Cup this year. Of recent prospects I suppose you could call Pasternak (25OA) or McAvoy (14OA) blue chip but neither of them was even close to being a top 5 pick. Edmonton and Buffalo have had tons of top 5 picks. Picking early and often doesn't always work out the way people suppose.

Nothing always works out.

Your odds of drafting a franchise player are better if you draft early and often. That is a fact. Until you have the talent you need, that's statistically the best position to be in to acquire those players.

What a team does with those players is another matter entirely. One can only hope the Rangers are managed better than BUF and EDM

 

[JimmyG89]

Which is another area where JD preaching patience comes in. For this group to get within smelling distance of the playoffs, so much has to go right. I think this is a big reason why JD is here.

The fans have been eating up the rebuild. I haven't heard from really anyone that is complaining about the team direction. The transparency helped. Winning the lotto will be a blessing and a curse for the rebuild. We have the chance at the elite talent that we need. Kakko/Hughes will be there and we will take one. Going into next season there will be so many drafted players coming into the fold. This offseason has gone about as well as any for the NYR in their history based on what they are trying to do.

Once this season is over, and possibly even during the season, I don't think the fans are going to be too keen on them selling patience, especially with a team likely to be in the bottom 5 again.

Today while waiting for the train, someone noticed my Rangers jacket and said "Hopefully JD can turn this thing around". I didn't want to get into too much and just went along with it and said he did in Columbus and St. Louis. We should be okay.

Thing is, JD doesn't have any "turning around" to do. This is the plan. Will fans be all in on this plan in May 2020 when the team possibly is selling off more pieces at the deadline for futures and they are out of it for the last 20 games? When we don't move up in the lotto and possibly move down due to others getting the lotto balls to go their way?

Obviously right now the team says they are not planning on deviating. Can they say that in 12 months and people will continue to eat it up? I have a hard time seeing that. At that point, you are 27 months into it. They'll be asking for results, if not by then, by October 2021. It'll start happening here too. Right now, we're pretty uniform on that we needed to rebuild, but slowly over the next year, that tune of "patience and resolve" will become "demanding better and needing results".

 

[Cag29]

Based on what exactly?

Hank gave everything he had and I love him.
BUt he missed his window with the Rangers.
He’s best served waiving and going to a team that is close and maybe he can put them over the top.
JD will respect Hank but will what’s best for the Rangers rebuild.
Hopefully it works out best for all and #30 is raised to the rafters one day!
LGR!

 

[Cag29]

The fans have been eating up the rebuild. I haven't heard from really anyone that is complaining about the team direction. The transparency helped. Winning the lotto will be a blessing and a curse for the rebuild. We have the chance at the elite talent that we need. Kakko/Hughes will be there and we will take one. Going into next season there will be so many drafted players coming into the fold. This offseason has gone about as well as any for the NYR in their history based on what they are trying to do.

Once this season is over, and possibly even during the season, I don't think the fans are going to be too keen on them selling patience, especially with a team likely to be in the bottom 5 again.

Today while waiting for the train, someone noticed my Rangers jacket and said "Hopefully JD can turn this thing around". I didn't want to get into too much and just went along with it and said he did in Columbus and St. Louis. We should be okay.

Thing is, JD doesn't have any "turning around" to do. This is the plan. Will fans be all in on this plan in May 2020 when the team possibly is selling off more pieces at the deadline for futures and they are out of it for the last 20 games? When we don't move up in the lotto and possibly move down due to others getting the lotto balls to go their way?

Obviously right now the team says they are not planning on deviating. Can they say that in 12 months and people will continue to eat it up? I have a hard time seeing that. At that point, you are 27 months into it. They'll be asking for results, if not by then, by October 2021. It'll start happening here too. Right now, we're pretty uniform on that we needed to rebuild, but slowly over the next year, that tune of "patience and resolve" will become "demanding better and needing results".

Patience.

 

[eco's bones]

Bad management. It's always bad management when rebuilds go bad.

But again Boston doesn't have those top 5 guys--they won in 2011 and here they are on the cusp again.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

What about Colin Miller in Vegas?

26 years old, decent contract for 3 more years, Right D man,

What would it take to get him?

we would have to take salary,

something around...

Miller & Clarkson's remaining year for Shatty

Vegas saves ~2.5M on the cap

add picks to even it out? Retain on Shatty to make it more palatable?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

But again Boston doesn't have those top 5 guys--they won in 2011 and here they are on the cusp again.

I was agreeing with you. Picking #1 doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[Off Sides]

Let me ask

If Bergeron were making 10M a year, what do people think Pasternak would have asked for in his last contract?

Do you think McAvoy in extension is going to receive more than Krug in cap hit or salary per year?

How about Toronto, is it a coincidence that Tavares is at 11M, and Matthews is just a bit higher at ~11.6 in cap hit and both are getting ~30M in bonuses in the 1st two seasons of their deals?

In LA Doughty received a 1M more cap hit than Kopitar

The Hawks, both Kane and Toews have matching contracts

We talk often about cap hit percentages, yet I'm not sure we have had any debate on whether or not players who are on the same team point to another contract on that team in their demands?

And if so, wouldn't the Rangers giving out an ~11M cap hit be something for the others to point at should they at the time of their extension be on par with that player who is at ~11M? Or how about if they wanted to sign another UFA, is he going to point to that ~11M?

I guess I feel like there is something to it, like a salary precedence gets set where the players are pointing to other contracts and asking for a similar level of compensation whether they are RFA or UFAs.

Is that going to continue, or are teams going to use their RFA leverage again? Can they use that leverage once they give out a giant contract to someone should that RFA produce on par with that UFA? If the UFA declines in production wouldn't that make it easier for even the lesser producing RFAs to ask for something similar?

More or less pointing to the Zbad contract is a lot different than pointing to an ~11M contract.

Like is there a salary culture too?

 

[Cag29]

The outside is the media and fans.

JD will be more hands on than Sather but he allows the GM make the decisions. That's how it was in St. Louis and Columbus.

This is awesome!!!!

 

[NYR Viper]

What about Colin Miller in Vegas?

26 years old, decent contract for 3 more years, Right D man,

What would it take to get him?

we would have to take salary,

something around...

Miller & Clarkson's remaining year for Shatty

Vegas saves ~2.5M on the cap

add picks to even it out? Retain on Shatty to make it more palatable?

Yes please, would totally be on board with this