Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIII

[Machinehead]

I've read up on local newspapers for about half dozen teams that say they need scoring and I have not seen Kreider's name mentioned as a trade candidate once. Surprising and a little troubling.

Kreider is hardly the first name that comes to mind when I think "needs scoring."

Have you read up on teams that need physicality, two-way play, and energy?

 

[BBKers]

Send Names at 50% to TBL together with #58 to TBL for Ryan Callahan + #27
Trade a combination of Kreider, Vesey, Pionk. Skjei and perhaps Something more at/before draft
Add Nylander now (preferably - if possible) and Trouba later (First next offseason as a UFA)
Draft Kakko at #2 and someone good (Seider?) at #20 (Maybe using a 2nd rounder to move up If it looks good enough to do so) plus whatever else We accumulate through trades (Maybe #27 plus Kreiders return)
Hope Zucc resigns in Dallas adding another 1st round pick in 2020
Buyout Smith now (unless he somehow can be dealt - Guy is apparently cancer)
Keep Staal and Shitty - for now
Stay the helluva away from EK 67 and Panarin (and Duchene)
Add 1-2 vet reclamation’s that might add something at the TDL. Maybe sign that Burdasov guy.
Draft high again next year - hopefully getting that last Young elite piece.
Then package excess youth in trades plus add a few key UFAs (2020, 2021 + 2022) filling holes to complete the puzzle

 

[Ola]

I've read up on local newspapers for about half dozen teams that say they need scoring and I have not seen Kreider's name mentioned as a trade candidate once. Surprising and a little troubling.

He wasn’t in TSNs trade board for the off season either. Omission or they got any intel?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

At some point you have to turn the corner....the leafs IMO waited a year or two too long before going for it and now they are in cap hell. If we wait until Kakko, Shestyerkin, Kravtsov, Fox and even Miller, need high end contracts we could be in the same situation. The new window is much earlier in a rebuild now, Chicago did it right, Toronto imo is currently doing it wrong. I'm not suggesting I know the solution but we have to turn a corner soon.

 

[kovazub94]

English should be capitalized, whether it's the language or the muffins. Also pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes (especially in the age of typing with your thumbs) instead of refuting points is usually a sign you should stop arguing

Lol at your post again. I wasn't pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes but you did.

 

[Machinehead]

He wasn’t in TSNs trade board for the off season either. Omission or they got any intel?

Maybe Gorton hasn't heard any other that satisfies him. If that's the case, I'm more than happy to re-sign him.

 

[McRanger]

Lol at your post again. I wasn't pointing out spelling and grammar mistakes but you did.

When I get the opportunity to talk about English Muffins I don’t pass it up.

 

[Ola]

Maybe Gorton hasn't heard any other that satisfies him. If that's the case, I'm more than happy to re-sign him.

This wouldn’t surprise me at all.

I think it’s much harder to get things done at the draft than we like to believe. I also posted on it earlier, last summer like 15 NHL players were traded. Kreider, Names, Vesey and Shatty are 4. There was a thread at the trade board with players that would be moved this summer, all teams had 2-3 guys that ‘surely’ would be traded.

There was a lot of action last summer compared to what we saw the summers before the expansion draft. A ton of these guys that make sense to move, or however they should be labeled, won’t get moved.

The most likely scenario is probably that Gorts won’t trade a single player this summer. Followed by 1 player being moved. Anything more than that must from an historic perspective be seen as very unlikely. Just to have reasonable expectations.

 

[BBKers]

This would be a nasty team and fun to watch moving fwd... with another top 5 high skilled pick in 2020 to top it off.

Nylander - Zinbad - Kakko
Marleau (=> Kravtsov) - Chytil/Strome - Buch
Ferland - Howden - Strome/Chytil
Lemmy - Lias - Fast
Callahan, Bogosian

Staal (=> Miller) - TDA
Hajek - Shattenkirk (=> Trouba?/Lundkvist/Seider?)
Rykov/Lindgren/UFA camp Vet - Fox
McQuaid

B Manning takes his assignment to Hartford

Hank w Georgie/Shesty taking turns shuffling duties using waiver exempt Wolfpack call ups

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

At some point you have to turn the corner....the leafs IMO waited a year or two too long before going for it and now they are in cap hell. If we wait until Kakko, Shestyerkin, Kravtsov, Fox and even Miller, need high end contracts we could be in the same situation. The new window is much earlier in a rebuild now, Chicago did it right, Toronto imo is currently doing it wrong. I'm not suggesting I know the solution but we have to turn a corner soon.

Chicago did it when players weren’t getting $10+ on their second contracts. I think (without thinking too hard about it and I could totally be wrong here) going forward would be to get your superstar foundation players on those big second contract long term, have your next 2-5 guys on like $6-7m deals and have the cheaper depth vets and ELCs fill out the rest of the roster

 

[BBKers]

A future 2021 cap at around $90 M implies an average AAV at around $4,1 M annually with a 22 man roster. Staal, Shattenkirk, Hank and Smith are all Done. Plus most of our other current ”lethal” luggage deals. Kakko and Kravtsov Will still be on ELCs. As would Miller and Lundkvist. Fox, Chytil, Shesty, Rykov, Howden, Hajek and Lias will be on manageable 2nd contract deals (some likely bridge). Zib and Skjei still signed cheap slightly above $5M. Wtf is the problem? We would not even reach the cap floor with our current stock.

 

[East Coast Bias]

A future 2021 cap at around $90 M implies an average AAV at around $4,1 M annually with a 22 man roster. Staal, Shattenkirk, Hank and Smith are all Done. Plus most of our other current ”lethal” luggage deals. Kakko and Kravtsov Will still be on ELCs. As wold Miller and Lundkvist. Fox, Chytil, Shesty, Rykov, Howden, Hajek and Lias will be on manageable 2nd contract deals (some likely bridge). Zib still cheap. Wtf is the problem?

Gotta save money so we can have our annual Does Tampa wanna dump salary - maybe Palat’s last year at 5m for Tampa’s 2nd posts

 

[Draft Guru]

At some point you have to turn the corner....the leafs IMO waited a year or two too long before going for it and now they are in cap hell. If we wait until Kakko, Shestyerkin, Kravtsov, Fox and even Miller, need high end contracts we could be in the same situation. The new window is much earlier in a rebuild now, Chicago did it right, Toronto imo is currently doing it wrong. I'm not suggesting I know the solution but we have to turn a corner soon.

Disagree on your take on Chicago/Toronto but agree with you that we may have to turn the corner soon.

What else could Toronto have done? They bottomed out and got the number 4 pick (Marner) in '15 and the number 1 pick (Matthews) in '16. They both entered the league in '16-17 with their ELC's expiring after '18-19. How easy do you think it is turn your team from a last place squad to a contender in a 3 year window? They did what they could. Top pair defensemen and top line forwards don't grow on trees, and teams certainly aren't lining up to give them away. They gave Marleau a three year over-35 contract when they knew the last year would be brutal, but they did it to get him on the team and worried about it later. They got Tavares when he became available. This was their year to go for it and they did. They acquired Muzzin for a first and decent prospects. How much earlier could they have gone for it? Who were they acquiring and at what cost? Toronto quite possibly wins the cup this year if they didn't blow a 3-2 series lead to Boston.

The problem the Leafs are now facing, which is completely different from the Blackhawks situation in the summer of 2010, is how bloated the second contract has become for star players. The Blackhawks won their first cup in 2010 when Kane and Toews were on the last year of their ELC. Both then signed identical 5 year deals at $6.3M per. They went on to win the cup again in 2013 and 2015 before then both receiving 8 year deals at $10.5 per. Chicago had 8 years of Kane and Toews, in their prime, to work with before they had to pay them $10M+.

Matthews will be getting $11M+ next year, only his 4th season in the league. Marner most likely will command close to $10M, if not more. The second contracts are out of control now which forces teams' windows to be much, much sooner.

Do I think the Rangers should go after Panarin, Karlsson, etc? No, I don't. But I will fully understand if Gorton and company try to go for it with Henrik still on board for two years and Kakko/Kravtsov/Fox/etc etc all on ELC's.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I've read up on local newspapers for about half dozen teams that say they need scoring and I have not seen Kreider's name mentioned as a trade candidate once. Surprising and a little troubling.

Gorton operates pretty quietly so I wouldn’t think much about it.

 

[effen]

I'm obviously going to be in the minority on this but out of Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Kakko/Hughes, Lemieux, and Kravstov I don't think there's enough quality ice time for all 6 on a team that rides its 1st line. I think 2 and maybe even 3 of them are gonna start the year in Hartford, and maybe controversially, I think that's a good thing.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I'm obviously going to be in the minority on this but out of Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Kakko/Hughes, Lemieux, and Kravstov I don't think there's enough quality ice time for all 6 on a team that rides its 1st line. I think 2 and maybe even 3 of them are gonna start the year in Hartford, and maybe controversially, I think that's a good thing.

Eh, I don’t think getting 16+ a night is an absolute necessity

 

[RGY]

He wasn’t in TSNs trade board for the off season either. Omission or they got any intel?

Kreider re-signing 6 years @ $6 million aav.

Its a fair deal for both sides.

His body can hold up to age 34 and therefore his speed and physicality will still be there. Marleau and Cole are people I see Kreider being able to replicate in terms of durability into his 30s.

 

[DutchShamrock]

At some point you have to turn the corner....the leafs IMO waited a year or two too long before going for it and now they are in cap hell. If we wait until Kakko, Shestyerkin, Kravtsov, Fox and even Miller, need high end contracts we could be in the same situation. The new window is much earlier in a rebuild now, Chicago did it right, Toronto imo is currently doing it wrong. I'm not suggesting I know the solution but we have to turn a corner soon.

Pittsburgh didn't do it on the big guys' first contract. Chicago won 2 more on big contracts.

I'm not just poo pooping free agents, but I think Toronto messed up going with Tavares. They should have kept Bozak and used the extra $6m on defense and depth. Matthews, Bozak, and kadri is great.

That's not to say JT and the leafs can't get it done. It's a progression for these guys. A season to acclimate, a season or 3 to fail in the post season, then knock on the door. Chicago is the exception to the rule.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm obviously going to be in the minority on this but out of Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Kakko/Hughes, Lemieux, and Kravstov I don't think there's enough quality ice time for all 6 on a team that rides its 1st line. I think 2 and maybe even 3 of them are gonna start the year in Hartford, and maybe controversially, I think that's a good thing.

Guys who spent the entire season with the Rangers are not going to start the season in Hartford.

Neither will Kakko. So that leaves Lias (who probably sticks) and Kravstov (who may need some AHL minutes, but he probably sticks as well.)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gorton operates pretty quietly so I wouldn’t think much about it.

The Brassard/Zibanejad trade came out of nowhere.

 

[Irishguy42]

The Brassard/Zibanejad trade came out of nowhere.

inb4 RB comes in here stating how he had it as a hypothetical long before it happened.

 

[TheBPA]

Disagree on your take on Chicago/Toronto but agree with you that we may have to turn the corner soon.

What else could Toronto have done? They bottomed out and got the number 4 pick (Marner) in '15 and the number 1 pick (Matthews) in '16. They both entered the league in '16-17 with their ELC's expiring after '18-19. How easy do you think it is turn your team from a last place squad to a contender in a 3 year window? They did what they could. Top pair defensemen and top line forwards don't grow on trees, and teams certainly aren't lining up to give them away. They gave Marleau a three year over-35 contract when they knew the last year would be brutal, but they did it to get him on the team and worried about it later. They got Tavares when he became available. This was their year to go for it and they did. They acquired Muzzin for a first and decent prospects. How much earlier could they have gone for it? Who were they acquiring and at what cost? Toronto quite possibly wins the cup this year if they didn't blow a 3-2 series lead to Boston.

The problem the Leafs are now facing, which is completely different from the Blackhawks situation in the summer of 2010, is how bloated the second contract has become for star players. The Blackhawks won their first cup in 2010 when Kane and Toews were on the last year of their ELC. Both then signed identical 5 year deals at $6.3M per. They went on to win the cup again in 2013 and 2015 before then both receiving 8 year deals at $10.5 per. Chicago had 8 years of Kane and Toews, in their prime, to work with before they had to pay them $10M+.

Matthews will be getting $11M+ next year, only his 4th season in the league. Marner most likely will command close to $10M, if not more. The second contracts are out of control now which forces teams' windows to be much, much sooner.

Do I think the Rangers should go after Panarin, Karlsson, etc? No, I don't. But I will fully understand if Gorton and company try to go for it with Henrik still on board for two years and Kakko/Kravtsov/Fox/etc etc all on ELC's.

The Marleau move was the killer. Totally unnecessary. He wasn’t even effective his last few years in San Jose. To give him 3 years at $6 million per is practically a fireable offense.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

look at most teams that play hard in the playoffs a lot of their players are visibly missing some front teeth, our players not so much. We need more players that are willing to get their faces ugly to play hard and help their team win games.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

The Brassard/Zibanejad trade came out of nowhere.

credit goes to the crazy incompetent Sens GM/owner combo not to Gorton.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I wonder if this Blues run starts a trend around the league of drafting bigger d-men. Bigger, mobile, puck moving d-men.