Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLI

[SA16]

The UFA market may be bare, but just for the completeness of the discussion:

What kind of cap dumps — with only a year, max two — centers could be available? I am thinking of like the PK Subban trade or a stranded whale like Getzlaf that might have negative value.

Derek Stepan could be an option... Getzlaf. Dubinsky. Jeff Carter.

Ultimately I think that an own rental strategy is the best with Strome. Settle just before arbitration on a 1 year deal. Take it from there.

Bozak

 

[LokiDog]

If we did decide to go the trade route (and depending on the target) I’d package some pretty good-to-hefty pieces and look at guys like:

Marcheseault
W. Karlsson
Schenn (if STL needs to get creative to keep Pietrangelo)
Lindholm (if Calgary decides to restructure)

All make between 4.8-6.5 with term, which is the right price for a solid 2C.

I’d include Strome or flip him elsewhere and consider moving some pretty good pieces depending on who we were looking at. Again, depending on who we were going after, anything from Buch, Lundkvist, other prospects, picks.

Pipe dream. I acknowledge that. Just looking at names this morning out of quarantine boredom, so don’t get too bent out of shape.

 

[Doctyl]

A compliance buy out is a no-brainer. There's no cap penalty

Yea, I understand that. This isn’t a Richards situation where we would be on the hook until this season with a cap hit over $6M. It’s one year and then they’re done.

Using a compliance buyout on Hank is a cheap shot and shitty way for his career to end with us. He isn’t preventing any moves with his current deal.

 

[ETTER DE]

If we did decide to go the trade route (and depending on the target) I’d package some pretty good-to-hefty pieces and look at guys like:

Marcheseault
W. Karlsson
Schenn (if STL needs to get creative to keep Pietrangelo)
Lindholm (if Calgary decides to restructure)

All make between 4.8-6.5 with term, which is the right price for a solid 2C.

I’d include Strome or flip him elsewhere and consider moving some pretty good pieces depending on who we were looking at. Again, depending on who we were going after, anything from Buch, Lundkvist, other prospects, picks.

Pipe dream. I acknowledge that. Just looking at names this morning out of quarantine boredom, so don’t get too bent out of shape.

No to Karlsson. I remember how easily Washington took him out of the Stanley Cup final. Everytime he was checked they finished with a glove to his face. Nothing was called. He was scared the whole series. Got rid of the puck as fast as he could.

 

[GAGLine]

If we did decide to go the trade route (and depending on the target) I’d package some pretty good-to-hefty pieces and look at guys like:

Marcheseault
W. Karlsson
Schenn (if STL needs to get creative to keep Pietrangelo)
Lindholm (if Calgary decides to restructure)

All make between 4.8-6.5 with term, which is the right price for a solid 2C.

I’d include Strome or flip him elsewhere and consider moving some pretty good pieces depending on who we were looking at. Again, depending on who we were going after, anything from Buch, Lundkvist, other prospects, picks.

Pipe dream. I acknowledge that. Just looking at names this morning out of quarantine boredom, so don’t get too bent out of shape.

Lindholm makes sense based on his age, but I have no interest in any of the others, and I'm not interested in trading Lundkvist. I seriously doubt Lindholm would be available anyway.

 

[Anthony5967]

Not my concern either really.

Just that keeping him will mean that we lose someone else that we also would like to have on a team that is to contend for the Cup.

DeAngelo?

 

[UnSandvich]

I'd rather trade Strome & sign Johan Larsson for 3C. Not much offense, but excellent defensively, and will probably be significantly cheaper

 

[GAGLine]

Yea, I understand that. This isn’t a Richards situation where we would be on the hook until this season with a cap hit over $6M. It’s one year and then they’re done.

Using a compliance buyout on Hank is a cheap shot and shitty way for his career to end with us. He isn’t preventing any moves with his current deal.

We don't know where the cap is going to end up. If it drops, and they do give teams compliance buyouts, we'll have to use it. Using it on Hank would free up more money than using it on Staal or Smith. It would also free up Hank to choose his next team, whether that's in the NHL or back in Sweden. And it eliminates the need for us to trade Georgiev.

If we only had 2 goalies and Hank was the backup, I'd be fine with keeping him for the final year. But I don't think we can allow sentiment to get in the way of doing what's best for the team.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think we have to trade Georgiev eventually. Is his value higher now while he's young and under more control, or older and potentially more established? I don't know. Goalie values can be really hard to judge.

I'd rather buyout Staal, which opens up a spot on defense where a literal traffic cone would be an improvement. They could probably find a cheap stop gap to put in Staal's spot that would make a really big difference. Staal killed everyone he played with. He is literally done.

Just from an on-ice standpoint, getting rid of Staal and plugging in anyone else provides more of a boost than keeping Georgiev over Hank would. And then you also acquire some asset(s) from Georgiev, which seems inevitable.

If it works from a cap perspective with the rest of their planned strategy, I'd go with cutting Staal.

 

[SA16]

Yea I’d buyout Staal over Hank and then trade Georgiev for whatever the best offer is. Either will give enough cap space to go long term on DeAngelo and nobody else needs a big raise/there are no good FA this year anyway. I am not including Strome or Fast there as I think giving either of them a big raise/years is just compounding error. Staal is a detriment on the ice. Hank is not.

 

[D713B]

He’s an rfa so he didn’t have to be dealt and they were trying to get in the playoffs ... he could still go now but I do think he stays just not more than 3 years

Fast stayed too

Agreed, albeit still in need of a commensurate raise. To clarify my point, it was a great opportunity to sell high if they wanted.

 

[D713B]

Yea, I understand that. This isn’t a Richards situation where we would be on the hook until this season with a cap hit over $6M. It’s one year and then they’re done.

Using a compliance buyout on Hank is a cheap shot and shitty way for his career to end with us. He isn’t preventing any moves with his current deal.

Something that deserves consideration for a compliance buyout of whomever is you're opening a roster spot for another player.

 

[GAGLine]

I think we have to trade Georgiev eventually.

Probably, but I'd rather not be forced to do it. If we don't buy out Hank, he's gone in a year anyway. Georgiev is a better insurance policy, both as a backup to Shesty and as a stopgap until one of Huska, Wall or Lindbom are ready.

 

[SA16]

In any case compliance buyouts exacerbate the financial issue not relieve them so I find it incredibly unlikely that they will occur.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Strome's next contract is gonna turn into Smith's contract very quickly. Just a matter of with what team, and I'm praying it's not ours

Then we front load it and send it to AZ or OTT when the cap hit exceeds the salary!!

 

[UnSandvich]

Then we front load it and send it to AZ or OTT when the cap hit exceeds the salary!!

And when they don't want it b/c he's not good?

 

[GAGLine]

And when they don't want it b/c he's not good?

Smith got a 4 year deal. Strome isn't getting 4 or more years.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

If we did decide to go the trade route (and depending on the target) I’d package some pretty good-to-hefty pieces and look at guys like:

Marcheseault
W. Karlsson
Schenn (if STL needs to get creative to keep Pietrangelo)
Lindholm (if Calgary decides to restructure)

All make between 4.8-6.5 with term, which is the right price for a solid 2C.

I’d include Strome or flip him elsewhere and consider moving some pretty good pieces depending on who we were looking at. Again, depending on who we were going after, anything from Buch, Lundkvist, other prospects, picks.

Pipe dream. I acknowledge that. Just looking at names this morning out of quarantine boredom, so don’t get too bent out of shape.

I think you’re right, outside of some FA 4C vet or short term LD vet help, our next move should be for a high performer not another pretty good guy.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If we buyout Henrik over Staal, I fear @GoAwayStaal will go batshit crazy and harm himself.

 

[Matz03]

Hopefully there is no compliance buyout and we’ve got Staal and Hank one more season, handcuffing the teams cap to me forces the team from trying to compete too soon. In my opinion they aren’t close to being even a bubble team so this prevents any poor decision in handing out money to a poor ufa class or long term deals to Strome and Tony. This team as made up could be slightly better next year or just as easily go backwards as well. A single injury to one of the key guys and they’re a lottery team again, and that proves to me they can’t be adding. Overachieving due to young guys stepping up, or the coach getting more out of this group I’d be all for, and most healthy way to keep the rebuild on track.

 

[SA16]

Hopefully there is no compliance buyout and we’ve got Staal and Hank one more season, handcuffing the teams cap to me forces the team from trying to compete too soon. In my opinion they aren’t close to being even a bubble team so this prevents any poor decision in handing out money to a poor ufa class or long term deals to Strome and Tony. This team as made up could be slightly better next year or just as easily go backwards as well. A single injury to one of the key guys and they’re a lottery team again, and that proves to me they can’t be adding. Overachieving due to young guys stepping up, or the coach getting more out of this group I’d be all for, and most healthy way to keep the rebuild on track.

Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. They were a bubble team this year when the season went on pause so saying they aren't close to even being a bubble team simply makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[nyr2k2]

Probably, but I'd rather not be forced to do it. If we don't buy out Hank, he's gone in a year anyway. Georgiev is a better insurance policy, both as a backup to Shesty and as a stopgap until one of Huska, Wall or Lindbom are ready.

I don't think it's that hard to find a replacement for Georgiev. We had Ondrej Pavelec for a year who posted identical numbers to Georgiev this year. We've always been able to find good backup goaltending. The allure of Georgiev is his upside--we've all seen how good he can be. He's just inconsistent. We could hold onto him and he could put it together, which would be awesome, or he could continue to be erratic and then he's just some guy who is 26 and never able to establish himself. You have to time it right, when you move him, and I think it's as good of a time as any.

I have no idea what his market looks like, though. If it's non-existent, then sure, I don't want to force a trade, either.

 

[Matz03]

Unfortunately your opinion is wrong. They were a bubble team this year when the season went on pause so saying they aren't close to even being a bubble team simply makes no sense whatsoever.

Sure it does, I explain it further in that post. One injury to a key guy and they aren’t a bubble team, let alone the bad luck other teams around us have had with injuries. This team has enough good player to make a top 6, that’s all, when this team is competing again, I expect a completely different bottom 6. Out lefty d is a mess and prospects we have are still a bit away. Righty D is a really nice development.

I’d be happy if this team overachieves again, and the coach can get more out of current make up, that would answer questions on young guys we have and how effective Quinn could be. But I’d much rather see us acquire more draft and young assets the next two drafts, watch the big contracts to Hank, Staal, and Smith end, and see the dead cap from buyouts come off. Then we’re in crazy good position to actually acquire higher end young guys while having that many more prospects push out the current borderline nhl players.

I want to see a team that can be a dynasty for 7-10 years, not one that maybe go a couple rounds if everything aligns.

 

[Fitzy]

The hockeyrodent.com had a piece back in 2006 or 2007 about how statistically, it's better to have a goalie "Hiccup Harry" who bombs one every five games and is great the rest, then "Steady Eddie", who is mediocre on a game to game basis, even if the goalies post identical numbers.

At the time it was an indictment of Kevin Weeks, but I think it serves as a solid "plus" to Georgiev, who is clearly a Hiccup Harry

 

[NYR Viper]

Man it’s unfortunate Koivu wouldn’t consider playing outside of Minnesota. He’d be a perfect stop-gap.

I wonder if Gorton could find a landing spot for someone like Howden + a depth d-man like Hajek or Rykov for a pretty good depth center from somewhere. Not every team has the same depth the Rangers have.