Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[I Eat Crow]

I do know that. Where is it a given they will have a top-10 pick next year, though? They were atrocious this year with no high-end players in the lineup aside from Mika and finished with like the sixth best odds at a top pick. With the influx of talent, there is almost no chance they're in the basement again.

I'll eat my sock if the Rangers make the playoffs next season.

You said it yourself. Zibanejad is going to be the only "star" on this roster barring something bizarre happening this summer.

Kakko is going to be a star one day, but not from the get-go. While the young talent coming in is promising, they're all very green. We saw how the first wave of young talent fared this past year. DeAngelo is the only one, IMO, that really improved over the course of the season. Pionk looked overmatched. Andersson looked lost. Chytil shows flashes of brilliance but was very streaky. Howden was gassed halfway through the year.

I anticipate the same happening with Kakko, Kravtsov, and Hajek (probably). They'll have their moments of brilliance, but there will be lots of moments of struggle and frustration.

With trading away Hayes and Zuccarello, and possibly Kreider, I just don't see how the Rangers are going to be a better team next year than this past year. This coming season is the bottom out year. Things will be on the upswing in 2020-21.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'll eat my sock if the Rangers make the playoffs next season.

WITNESS!

 

[I Eat Crow]

I agree the offer sheets for Marner and Point are still pipe dreams. Both will be signed before July 1st.

However, offer sheets for the middle 6 forwards in Toronto are very realistic.

The Rangers can't offersheet anyone unless no 2nd or 3rd round picks are involved. They traded their 3rd or 2nd next year for Fox.

 

[I Eat Crow]

WITNESS!

Bokk it!

I'll tape it and post it here, @Machinehead style.

 

[egelband]

A lot of good quoted from Drury in the Athletic article:
Ranking the top prospects in the New York Rangers' system

This one is on Howden. He wasn't in good enough shape apparently, Maloney also talked about that in his podcast:


The reason I quote it here is not because it says much about Howden, but I do think it very often is missed when people watch kids. The stamina part of the game. When you watch the NHL it just looks so effortless. But really, even if equipment is so much lighter and players are leaner, its tremendously challenging to get the stamina to be able to skate hard for a full game. Playing hockey is as physically demanding as running up for stairs. Anyone gets tired after doing it once for 40 seconds.

Young players -- often -- doesn't have the physic to do it 40 seconds for a shift, rest for 3-5 minutes, then do it 40 seconds again, and so on for 30 minutes (a period with breaks) and three periods, and 7-8 times a week with morning skates and what not for 8 months in a row.

And really, as a hockey player, you without any doubt train too much to build up your muscles during the season. You would believe that everyone was in perfect shape come May, but that isn't necessarily the case. Your ability to handle stiff legs and your breathing improves, ability to assume oxygen, but not necessarily your strength and explosiveness. That often goes the other way during the season.

Why is this relevant? Because (1) its certainly fixable and (2) it has a really really big impact on how well a kid will play. Is he ready physically to play more than 12-14 minutes a night? Is he not having an impact because he gets gassed after the first shift? Those type of things.

My sense with Pionk too. I think he'll be better next year. It's a rough schedule, a real grind.

 

[egelband]

IF the NYR somehow end up with two DAL firsts out of all this, I'm sorry, but I'm throwing the kitchen sink at Mitch. There is no way, going forward, that this club has a worse season than they did this year, thus making any kid they select a gamble. They'll draft a guy that doesn't develop right away and everybody will be yelling and screaming that he's the next Lias. I'll gladly send my FOUR picks and obtain DAL's TWO. IF DAL gets bounced, then forget it.

I agree with others that this is too costly. But Gorton does have a track record of being willing to overpay for the players he wants. I'm also not sure Marner is worth that massive salary. I think he's great. But more on the Panarin level than the McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin level.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I agree the offer sheets for Marner and Point are still pipe dreams. Both will be signed before July 1st.

However, offer sheets for the middle 6 forwards in Toronto are very realistic.

I think very realistic is a stretch. Offer sheets are just uncommon and not a tool used by GM's. There is way too much discourse about the topic which often leads to an echo chamber around the subject. But the reality is, talking about them is far more common than their existence. GM's thrive on relationships. They can't afford to be pissing off their colleagues left and right.

If Toronto needs to move someone, it's much more likely the Rangers would approach them for a trade than offer sheet them.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The Rangers can't offersheet anyone unless no 2nd or 3rd round picks are involved. They traded their 3rd or 2nd next year for Fox.

Details, details!

 

[True Blue]

But I also don't think there is any reasonable point to be had by bringing up Lawton or Daigle (or Yakupov) at this stage of things. That's the pessimism talking.

But in terms of what we do today to plan for the future, I don't see any point in hedging against prospects busting.

When someone says that they are "locks", the rejoinder is to show why it is erroneous to assume so.

Who is hedging? I have stated repeatedly that the best thing that Gorton can do is gather as many assets as possible. Where is the hedge?

 

[True Blue]

If they score Dallas' first and by some miracle, Zucc stays, how can you say I'm insane? How many first round picks does one organization need to accumulate? You'd basically be losing two picks out of all this and gaining Marner.

1. How many first round picks? As many as possible.
2. What makes you think that a rebuilding team should give away 4 first rounders? When have you seen that done?
3. For all of the talks of offer sheets, when was the last time that you have seen one come to play?

 

[bobbop]

I hope they really pay attention to when all of their ELCs turn into RFA contracts on which players. With some many young potentially stud players, our cap situation could turn into a Toronto sized mess if not managed correctly.

We should have such problems!

 

[True Blue]

However, offer sheets for the middle 6 forwards in Toronto are very realistic.

What is wrong with the middle 6 forwards that the Rangers have, if you are building?

 

[Tawnos]

When someone says that they are "locks", the rejoinder is to show why it is erroneous to assume so.

Who is hedging? I have stated repeatedly that the best thing that Gorton can do is gather as many assets as possible. Where is the hedge?

The hedge is saying "let's not do things until we know our prospects are what we're hoping they are"

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The hedge is saying "let's not do things until we know our prospects are what we're hoping they are"

Which would be a smart thing to do.

 

[True Blue]

The hedge is saying "let's not do things until we know our prospects are what we're hoping they are"

Are you referring to going out and blindly spending on UFAs? That be the only thing you can be referring to, as otherwise I have no idea of where this is coming from. I have made my reasons known. And it has everything to do with the back end of the contracts when the Rangers are (hopefully) being true contenders and not bubble hopefuls. When I state "let's see what is under the hood and what is the future core" that is a feeling that has nothing to do with being saddled with a NTC/NMC contract for a player whose best days are behind him.

 

[bobbop]

Any thoughts of trading Georgiev right now are crazy. He’s a rising star. Until you are certain that Sherstykin is equal or greater, you don't trade the bird in hand. All things in due time..

 

[Tawnos]

Are you referring to going out and blindly spending on UFAs? That be the only thing you can be referring to, as otherwise I have no idea of where this is coming from. I have made my reasons known. And it has everything to do with the back end of the contracts when the Rangers are (hopefully) being true contenders and not bubble hopefuls. When I state "let's see what is under the hood and what is the future core" that is a feeling that has nothing to do with being saddled with a NTC/NMC contract for a player whose best days are behind him.

You're really saying that there's no area in between "blindly spending on UFAs" and "not doing anything at all until we know what we have"?

Building a hockey team isn't so black and white.

And by the way, no team has been successful doing what you're advocating. Every team that's rebuilt in the cap era on the way to a Cup has made major acquisitions in anticipation of being good. It's not enough to wait for it to happen.

 

[True Blue]

You're really saying that there's no area in between "blindly spending on UFAs" and "not doing anything at all until we know what we have"?

Building a hockey team isn't so black and white.

And by the way, no team has been successful doing what you're advocating. Every team that's rebuilt in the cap era on the way to a Cup has made major acquisitions in anticipation of being good. It's not enough to wait for it to happen.

Who says one cannot sign some UFAs to bolster the roster? Being against signing Panarin or trading for Trouba is not the same thing and you know it.

And who is advocating having a 100% home grown team? Not being in a rush to give up assets for Trouba and then sign him and Panarin to long term contracts is not quite same thing as stating that those are the types of moves that are made by teams looking to contend. Let's not conflate facts and circumstances please.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Any thoughts of trading Georgiev right now are crazy. He’s a rising star. Until you are certain that Sherstykin is equal or greater, you don't trade the bird in hand. All things in due time..

So what do you do with the 3 goalies?

 

[Tawnos]

Who says one cannot sign some UFAs to bolster the roster? Being against signing Panarin or trading for Trouba is not the same thing and you know it.

And who is advocating having a 100% home grown team? Not being in a rush to give up assets for Trouba and then sign him and Panarin to long term contracts is not quite same thing as stating that those are the types of moves that are made by teams looking to contend. Let's not conflate facts and circumstances please.

Except that, unless you mean “looking to contend at some point,” you’re completely wrong that those are only moves made by teams looking to contend. Teams who haven’t quite gotten there make these moves all the time and the ones that win the Cup usually did as well.

 

[Gardner McKay]

IF the NYR somehow end up with two DAL firsts out of all this, I'm sorry, but I'm throwing the kitchen sink at Mitch. There is no way, going forward, that this club has a worse season than they did this year, thus making any kid they select a gamble. They'll draft a guy that doesn't develop right away and everybody will be yelling and screaming that he's the next Lias. I'll gladly send my FOUR picks and obtain DAL's TWO. IF DAL gets bounced, then forget it.

Smart move. Injure the guy you just gave up multiple first round picks for.

 

[n8]

So what do you do with the 3 goalies?

you play Shesty in Hartford for half a season. See if he can't make that team win on his own. If he is truly the goalie of the future, he'll make his case, get a call up, show he isn't just pulling Skapsi, and then we can revisit this question but right now we really don't have to do anything. I mean what if one goalie is injured?

 

[QJL]

What is wrong with the middle 6 forwards that the Rangers have, if you are building?

Sorry, I meant those players being offer sheeted in general.

 

[Leetch3]

Is`t time to move Jesper Fast or Vesey to open up some spots for some youth, thoughts?

it depends on what you can get, but what kids are you looking to open spots for? we need to have some vets...

even with keeping Kreider and assuming that Kakko and Kravtsov will be in NY, I count 14 forwards -- Andersson, Buchnevich, Chytil, Fast, Howden, Kakko, Kravtsov, Kreider, Lemieux, Namestnikov, Nieves, Strome, Vesey, Zibanejad

assuming we carry 8 dmen again (with smith playing both) that means nieves goes down and the other 13 are on the team...boo deserves a 4th line spot but knowing that injuries will happen i'm not sure I'm rushing to blow guys out of town for him

Is there anyone NHL ready that matters? there are others that could play but not sure i'd make a move just to say another kid is playing?

 

[NYR Viper]

I’ve mentioned his name in here before but if Gorton can rid the team of a couple of guys on the back end AND is looking for an inexpensive RD stopgap who plays a heavier style, I’d look hard into Alex Petrovic. He’s had a couple of injury hindered seasons but he’s still young and he’s a guy who isn’t afraid to mix things up. Say as a 5-7 d-man he’d at least bring something they don’t have.